cosmic awareness EC

[Wanderer]

Consider this power set:

 

Quantum Sense: Detect Physical Objects, Energy and Magic 13- (no Sense Group), Discriminatory, Increased Arc Of Perception (360 Degrees), Range, Sense, Targeting (47 Active Points); Sense Affected As Cosmic and Mystic Sense Groups (-1/4)

 

Danger Awareness: Danger Sense (immediate vicinity, any danger, Function as a Sense) (32 Active Points); Sense Affected As Cosmic and Mystic Sense Groups (-1/4) 13-

 

Combat Awareness: (Total: 42 Active Cost, 34 Real Cost) +4 with All Combat (32 Active Points); Power Does Not Work If Cosmic or Mystic Sense Groups are Flashed (-1/4) (Real Cost: 26), plus Defense Maneuver I-IV (10 Active Points); Power Does Not Work If Cosmic or Mystic Sense Groups are Flashed (-1/4) (Real Cost: 8)

 

The more I look at it, the more a little nagging voice in my head says "they are a natural EC, they are a natural EC", though it goes against all rules (special 0-end powers). What gives ?

 

On a side issue, consider adding Discriminatory and Targeting to the Danger Sense. Would it allow to work as an effective back-up "Detect Enemies" Targeting sense throughout a whole combat ? Would it have any sense, or be utterly redudant, when one already has a Spatial Awareness-like Power ??

[Nevenall]

Re: cosmic awareness EC

 

It's not against the rules to create an EC with those powers, it just requires the GM's permission, which is another way of saying, "If it's a legitimate concept then yes, if you are doing it to save points, then no." and I would agree that what you describe is a legitimate concept though others may not, so go ahead and do it.

 

As for your second issue. Making danger sense targeting would allow you to use it detect targets in combat, but all your senses are flashed as the same group, and doubly so if they were in an EC. So, the chances of having your Q Sense flashed and not your Danger sense are very slim. I would save your points on that one.

[prestidigitator]

Re: cosmic awareness EC

 

Combat Awareness: (Total: 42 Active Cost' date=' 34 Real Cost) +4 with All Combat (32 Active Points); Power Does Not Work If Cosmic or Mystic Sense Groups are Flashed (-1/4) (Real Cost: 26), plus Defense Maneuver I-IV (10 Active Points); Power Does Not Work If Cosmic or Mystic Sense Groups are Flashed (-1/4) (Real Cost: 8)[/quote']

Well, I would myself question whether these should all be one slot in an EC. It seems that the CSLs and Defense Maneuver are stacked together just so they will add to the right size to fit in the Framework, which I feel is wrong. For that matter, should CSLs be purchasable together in bulk in order to constitute a single slot? Perhaps these are some of the reasons for keeping such Powers out of ECs; they aren't nearly as much of an issue in Multipowers and VPPs, but this issue really gets sticky for the particular Framework in question.

[Dust Raven]

Re: cosmic awareness EC

 

re: EC. I'd say no. That's just me though, others might say differently. Granted, the SFX seem to fit exactly into what I'd consider a perfect EC (it's all one large power, and the Powers in it represent what it can do), but the Powers used aren't all Powers. Two are Enhanced Senses, which are Powers, but typically cheep unless you load on a bunch of Adders, and the other slot is Skills and CSL, which are prohibited from ECs (and any Framework) seperately from the END issues in the standard rules. To me, putting this into an EC would be nothng more than getting some free sense adders and extra CSLs, which goes against the spirit of the rules. You're not really taking a hit for doing so either (how many Drain Senses or Skills are there, really?).

 

re: Targeting Danger Sense. I agree with Nevenall that it would be a waste of points. You already have a targeting sense, and if that goes away, almost always so does the Danger Sense. The only Advantage you'd have is for finding the source of a danger instantly even when that danger is not obvious to you. Consider the Jedi trick of standing outside, sensing the danger in the room next to you, and knowing exactly what it is and what it's doing and how to get to hit. That would be the advantage of putting Discriminatory and Targeting to the Danger Sense. It would be pretty useless (or redundant) in actual combat though.

 

Note: I wouldn't allow the Sense Affected As... Limitation on a No Sense Group sense. It's getting a Limitation that doesn't Limit the Power. Make it the sense part of that Group to begin, then buy all of the enhancement adders for the group instead of indivdually and save the points that way.

[Wanderer]

Re: cosmic awareness EC

 

re: Targeting Danger Sense. I agree with Nevenall that it would be a waste of points. You already have a targeting sense, and if that goes away, almost always so does the Danger Sense. The only Advantage you'd have is for finding the source of a danger instantly even when that danger is not obvious to you. Consider the Jedi trick of standing outside, sensing the danger in the room next to you, and knowing exactly what it is and what it's doing and how to get to hit. That would be the advantage of putting Discriminatory and Targeting to the Danger Sense. It would be pretty useless (or redundant) in actual combat though.

 

Ok, for the present power set, Targeting and Discriminatory would maybe be excessive, unless I find myself at a loss with unspent points to allocate (big chance...), though having a Jedi-quality Danger Sense that always gives definite information about the nature of danger and allows to attack it would be cool. But speaking in a general way, if one has a Targeting, Discriminatory Danger Sense, it may be used as a "Detect Enemies" targeting sense in combat, right ? If targeting Danger Sense is the only extra Targeting Sense, then it's combat-worthy, right ?

 

Note: I wouldn't allow the Sense Affected As... Limitation on a No Sense Group sense. It's getting a Limitation that doesn't Limit the Power. Make it the sense part of that Group to begin, then buy all of the enhancement adders for the group instead of indivdually and save the points that way.

 

Hero Designer does not allow to define a brand-new Sense Group, such as "Cosmic". That limitation was the only HD-compatible way of earmark the Sense as belonging to the cosmic sense. It's value comes from the fact that the sense may be affected as a second sense group, Mystic. Affected as a second unsual sense group is -1/4. I might split in a +0 Modifier "Belongs to Cosmic Sense Group" and a -1/4 Lim "Affected also as Mystic Sense group". It's just a way to circumvent HD's limitations. Or mark the sense as Unsual Sense group, instead of No sense group.

 

Moreover, given that HD does not recognize Danger Sense as a sense, buying enhancement adders for the group would be a waste of points, anyway. One could re-build Danger Sense as a "Detect Danger and Enemies" Detect Power, instead of the canon Talent, but since you can't create new sense groups, it's no real gain. An alternative way would have been to lump all together in one big Detect Power "Detect Physical Objects, Energy, Magic, Danger, and Enemies", but I had doubts it were a bit too much for a single power...

[Dust Raven]

Re: cosmic awareness EC

 

Ok' date=' for the present power set, Targeting and Discriminatory would maybe be excessive, unless I find myself at a loss with unspent points to allocate (big chance...), though having a Jedi-quality Danger Sense that always gives definite information about the nature of danger and allows to attack it would be cool. But speaking in a general way, if one has a Targeting, Discriminatory Danger Sense, it may be used as a "Detect Enemies" targeting sense in combat, right ? If targeting Danger Sense is the only extra Targeting Sense, then it's combat-worthy, right ? [/quote']

I wouldn't say "detect enemies". An enemy is a subjective term (not outside the realm of detects, but Danger Sense isn't too subjective). I'd say it would allow you to detect, and target, anyone who is endangering the character at any given moment, so long as the roll is made. This could just as easily be an ally as an enemy, but the Discriminatory would allow you to tell the difference. It would not allow you to sense/target enemies that are not posing any kind of danger to you though.

 

Because it's bought Immediate Vicinity, it can easily be used as a "threat sense", which is different than an "enemy sense" because anything can be an ememy, but only something that poses a threat to something in the vicinity would be detected. For example, if a group of men in black were to pop out of nowhere and point their guns at Superman, only the guy with kryptonite bullets would be viewed as a threat, but you'd know exactly which one he was and that he use of the gun was the danger.

 

 

 

Hero Designer does not allow to define a brand-new Sense Group, such as "Cosmic". That limitation was the only HD-compatible way of earmark the Sense as belonging to the cosmic sense. It's value comes from the fact that the sense may be affected as a second sense group, Mystic. Affected as a second unsual sense group is -1/4. I might split in a +0 Modifier "Belongs to Cosmic Sense Group" and a -1/4 Lim "Affected also as Mystic Sense group". It's just a way to circumvent HD's limitations. Or mark the sense as Unsual Sense group, instead of No sense group.

 

Moreover, given that HD does not recognize Danger Sense as a sense, buying enhancement adders for the group would be a waste of points, anyway. One could re-build Danger Sense as a "Detect Danger and Enemies" Detect Power, instead of the canon Talent, but since you can't create new sense groups, it's no real gain. An alternative way would have been to lump all together in one big Detect Power "Detect Physical Objects, Energy, Magic, Danger, and Enemies", but I had doubts it were a bit too much for a single power...

 

The limits of HD notwithstanding, I'll stand by my statement. Personally, I think it's stupid that the field for selecting a sense group doesn't allow you to type in your own group. My way around this is to think up as many group names as I possibly can and add them into a custom template, so they are there for all sense/sense affecting powers. And toss in a Unique 1 and Unique 2 for those that you think up along the way, and just edit in the exported document.

[Sean Waters]

Re: cosmic awareness EC

 

What gives? ECs: free points, everyone!

 

Well senses are not expensive and allowing people to buy them cheaper than normal is a bit of a laugh, really. Moreover sticking them in frameworks is bound to lead to trouble (he's got one in an EC, I want one in a MP...)

 

Anyway, think of senses as already linked by sfx, and the reason they are cheap is that they are built in a notional EC already.

 

Also, having 'no sense group' means it can't be flashed, which is cheating.

 

I could witter on. I'm not keen on the abuse of ECs which I see as all too common. Not having a go at you specifically, wanderer, far from it (well, maybe on the 'no sense group bit ). I'm having a go at everyone.

[Wanderer]

Re: cosmic awareness EC

 

I wouldn't say "detect enemies". An enemy is a subjective term (not outside the realm of detects' date=' but Danger Sense isn't too subjective). I'd say it would allow you to detect, and target, anyone who is endangering the character at any given moment, so long as the roll is made. This could just as easily be an ally as an enemy, but the Discriminatory would allow you to tell the difference. It would not allow you to sense/target enemies that are not posing any kind of danger to you though. [/quote']

 

Well, of course I aimed to make targeting discriminatory danger sense useful as a detect enemies that are actively threatening the character. It should allow to detect, and target, enemies in combat, those who are attempting an ambush, booby-trapping the character's base, etc. It shouldn't allow to detect enemies that are presently miding their own business.

 

Because it's bought Immediate Vicinity, it can easily be used as a "threat sense", which is different than an "enemy sense" because anything can be an ememy, but only something that poses a threat to something in the vicinity would be detected. For example, if a group of men in black were to pop out of nowhere and point their guns at Superman, only the guy with kryptonite bullets would be viewed as a threat, but you'd know exactly which one he was and that he use of the gun was the danger.

 

True, to a degree. In that case you maybe would need some additional qualifiers: i.e. detect dangers and hostiles. OTOH, that's where immediate vicinity adder comes useful: if the gun-wielding thug is a threat to anyone (such as bystanders) near you, but not to your superhumanly-tough frame, it still registers on your Danger Sense. That's probably how Spidey's danger sense always manages to register ordinary thugs (how many chances has Joe Punk to mamanges slug a bullet into Spidey ?).

 

The limits of HD notwithstanding, I'll stand by my statement. Personally, I think it's stupid that the field for selecting a sense group doesn't allow you to type in your own group. My way around this is to think up as many group names as I possibly can and add them into a custom template, so they are there for all sense/sense affecting powers. And toss in a Unique 1 and Unique 2 for those that you think up along the way, and just edit in the exported document.

 

Sorry, I'm quite unwilling to bother making up a custom template in order to correct this limitation of HD. My utterly non-existent XML skills make me cringe at the task. If Darren Watts had (re)minded making the Cosmic Sense Group official in Galactic Cahmpions the way the Mystic one was defined in Ultimate Mystic, I'd been most happy to use it, since it would have been a canon HD option. I concur that it's extremely annoying you cannot define a new sense group in any other way. I relish too much the easiness of making up hero characters with HD to be willing to try any character creation tricks that cannot be easily implemented in HD. if this sacrifices something in the purity of the systerm, so be it.

 

However, I have just to remark that "cosmic awareness" detects and danger sense are generally written up as no sense. It isn't true you cannot flash such senses, however. You most likely need a VPP to do it, but since the cosmic/mystic folks a character with these senses most crosses swords with, are the most likely to have VPPs, it balances out somewhat.