Weapon Bind: New options

[NuSoardGraphite]

I have always thought the Weapon Bind maneuver in the UMA and Fantasy Hero to be a very cool and cinematic maneuver, however it tends to be underused, even in the Martial Arts and Fantasy genres.

I was at work the other day, bored outta my skull when my imagination began to roam in Hero system territory. Weapon Bind came to mind and I began to mentally develop all sorts of new options for use with the maneuver and decided to post my thoughts here.

 

Basically, the Weapon Bind maneuver allows a character to "lock" his opponents weapon into a position where it is unusable by his opponent, usually with his own weapon (the classic Blade lock seen in many swashbuckling films)

 

But what benefit does this give? Obviously, it prevents the opponent from using his weapon...but so is the attacker prevented from using his as well. The attacker can launch other attacks such as punches, headbutts and kicks from this position, as well as push the opponent backward 1" (STR vs STR contest of course) but thats about it.

 

What about breaking the Weapon Bind? What are the benefits of this? There are none. The defender may either chose to attempt to "break" the weapon bind with a STR vs STR contest, or he may choose to "disengage" by giving ground and step back 1", which automatically breaks the weapon bind. No penalty involved.

 

Hmmm..that doesn't seem right to me. I think there should be a penalty to giving ground in this manner. I will cover this in my discussion as we progress.

 

First, we must distinguish between the "initiator" of a Weapon Bind, and the "defender" in a weapon bind.

 

For this point forward, the attacker/initiator in a Weapon Bind will be referred to as the Agressor. The Defender will be referred to as, of course, the Defender.

 

The Aggressor in a Weapon Bind is the one who has the superior position. They are in control of the situation. If the Aggressor chooses to disengage, there is no penalty applied to either character involved.

 

The Defender in a Weapon bind is the one in the inferior position. They are struggling to keep from being put in worse position. The Defender in a Weapon Bind can't do much else beyond resisting the Weapon Bind. They cannot attack, or defend themselves from outside assault. DCV penalties are as stated in the description of the Weapon Bind maneuver in the UMA and Fantasy Hero. In order to attack, Block or Dodge or even Dive for Cover, the Defender in a Weapon Bind must first either "Break" the Bind or "Disengage" (which has severe penalties) by stepping back 1".

 

Aggressor Options:

 

There are several options the aggressor may choose from during a Weapon Bind. He may only choose to employ 1 option at a time however. They may not be used in conjunction via a Sweep or Multi Power attack.

 

Attack: The Aggressor may attack with another limb or weapon (if he has one) that is not being used to bind the Defenders weapon. A popular maneuver is to headbutt the opponent while weapons are locked. Two Weapon Fighting specialists are especially dangerous because of this option.

The benefit of attacking your opponent is the possibility of stunning your opponent. Stunning an opponent who is the defender in a Weapon Bind garuntees they can't resist any action the Aggressor attempts until they recover from being stunned.

 

Overbear: The Aggressor may attempt to force his own weapon close enough to use it to attack the defender. An example is forcing a blade onto an opponents throat, then cutting it.

To do this, the Aggressor must win in STR vs STR contests until he has achieved a certain Body threshold determined by the GM (5 body is a good starting point) depending on weapon size and other factors. Obviously, if the Agressor ever looses a STR vs STR contest, the bind has been broken or reversed and he looses all progress and must begin again once he has reestablished dominance in the Bind contest.

Once the Aggressor has successfully reached the Body Threshold determined by the GM (this can take several phases and STR Contests) he may then make an attack roll vs the defender at the appropriate bonuses and penalties as described under the Weapon Bind maneuver in the UMA. However, he may not use any of his own STR to increase the damage of the attack. The weapons base damage is used, plus any increases due to Skill levels if any are used for that purpose.

The advantage of this? The defender cannot block, cannot dodge (he has not broken the Bind yet!) and has a reduced DCV. It effectively garuntees damage. However, if the Aggressor uses this option, attacking breaks the Weapon Bind.

 

Push: The Aggressor my push his opponent backward. In the UMA, it mentions that this push is always 1" backward, however in many films and fictional sources, characters are able to push opponents back much further than this. Note that this push does not shove the defender away. The Aggressor moves with the defender, slowly pushing him backward and he surges forward.

If the Aggressor wins in the STR vs STR contest for tha phase, he may push his opponent backward 1" for every 1 Body he exceeded his opponents STR roll by. Example: Jiro and Satoshi are two samurai in a Weapon Bind. Jiro is the Agressor. They both make STR rolls. Jiro rolls 6 body and Satoshi rolls 4 body. Jiro beat Satoshi by 2 body, and thus may push him back 2".

Note that the Aggressor may not push his opponent back by more than 1/2 of his normal inches of movement (depending on where they are fighting. Running for the ground, Flying for the air and Swimming for underwater)

As normal, if the Defender beats the Aggressor during the STR contest, he breaks or reverses the bind and is not pushed backward at all.

 

Shunt: Shunting is where the Aggressor pushes the Defender's weapon down and out of the way, then immediately attacks with his weapon at full Strength. This is different from Overbear in that it only takes 1 phase (either it succeeds or it doesn't) and the Aggressor may apply STR to the attack if he so desires. The weakness of this particular option is that the Defender can abort to dodge if he so desires. Also, if the Aggressor misses with this attack, it leave him open to immediate counter-attack by the Defender (if the Defender has a phase available) so it is risky.

The Aggressor still recieves the benefit of attacking an opponent with a reduced DCV but will be unable to defend himself if he misses until his next opportunity to abort (the next segment at the earliest)

To Shunt, the Aggressor must win a STR vs STR contest by at least 2 Body to succeed. If successful, he may then immediately attack. The Defender cannot block, but may dodge the attack.

 

Disarm: The Aggressor may choose to disarm his opponent if he wins a STR contest. No attack roll is required, as the weapons are already touching (or his hands are near the weapon, if the Bind is barehanded) Of course, if the Defender wins the STR contest, he is neither bound nor disarmed.

Note that the Aggressor does not use the STR bonus of Weapon Bind for this STR Contest, but the STR bonus from any Disarm Maneuvers the Aggressor may posses applies. The Defender may use either the STR bonus from Weapon Bind or any Disarm Maneuvers he posseses to resist.

 

Hold: The Aggressor my choose to simply "hold" the bind in place. This is a half-phase action, but is not an attack action, thus the Aggressor may hold his half-phase attack for another purpose. If the Aggressor chooses this option, and the Defender does not Break the bind, the opponents weapons remain locked in place.

 

Shove: If the Aggressor posseses the Martial Maneuver Shove (see the UMA) he may opt to use this maneuver against the Defender. See the Shove maneuver for specifics of that maneuver. An attack roll is required, but remember the Defender is at a reduced DCV against this roll. If successful, the Aggressor my Shove the opponent backward according to the rules for Shove. The STR from the Shove maneuver, not the Bind maneuver is used in the STR contest. The Defender does not use the STR from his Weapon Bind maneuver to resist, but can use the Root or Escape maneuvers if he posseses either of them.

In any case, the Weapon Bind ends with the use of the Shove manuever, whether or not the Shove is successful.

 

Defenders Options:

 

The Defender has several options, as well as the Aggressor. Many of these options are present to save the defenders ass from being skewered. The basic function of the Defender is the "break" the Weapon Bind, and any time the Defender succeeds in an STR vs STR contest during a Weapon Bind, he may opt to Break it. However there are other options available to the Defender...

 

Reversal: If the Defender posseses the Weapon Bind Maneuver himself (the martial maneuver) he may, instead of Breaking the bind after winning the STR Contest, may opt to "Reverse" the bind. This requires no attack roll of any sort, and is merely a reorienting of the application of STR between the Aggressor and the Defender. In other words, the Defender becomes the Agressor and vice versa. This is a risk every Aggressor in a Weapon Bind is taking when they attempt to bind either a stronger or more skilled opponent.

 

Disengage: This option allows the Defender to give up attempting to defend against the weapon bind. This requires the defender to step back 1", which automatically breaks the weapon bind. There are some penalties for this, however. The Aggressor of the Weapon bind may, if he has a phase available, immediately attack the Defender at 1/2DCV! The Defender may block or Dodge or Dive For Cover. Any block attempts against the Aggressor that phase are at 1/2OCV.

 

Give Ground: If the Aggressor attempts to push the Defender, the Defender may choose not to resist. He may "Give Ground" up to 1/2 his movement rate for the medium upon which they battle. (running for the ground etc) Both the Aggressor and Defender move the number of inches. However, if the Aggressor's 1/2 move is less than the Defenders 1/2 move, the Defender can safely escape the Aggressor's bind! Note that because the Aggressor attempted to push that phase, he has used his attack (and movement) action and cannot attempt to attack until the next phase. This can oftentimes be the safest way for a Defender to escape a Weapon Bind. However, there may be terrain features (wall, table, cliff edge etc) that prevent the Defenders escape in this fashion...

 

Escape: If the Defender posseses a Martial Escape maneuver, he may use it to "Escape" from the Weapon Bind. If the Defender using Escape wins the STR contest, not only does he "break" the Weapon Bind, but may immediately counter-attack, as Escape is not considered an attack action! (note, the counter-attack can only be performed if the Defender successfully Escapes in one of his own phases of course)

This simulates Swashbuckling action where a character "slides" away from a Weapon Bind and counter-attacks all in one smoothe move...

 

Unbalance: The Aggressor of a Weapon Bind has the Superior position, which means he is oftentimes using his mass and leverage heavily against the Defender in the bind. If the Defender is able to suddenly break away from the bind, it can throw the Agressor off balance for a moment, allowing the Defender a chance to counter-attack. This is risky, however for if the Aggressor is not thrown off balance, he may be allowed an immediate counter-attack against the defender instead!

The Aggressor makes a STR roll as normal...but the Defender does not make a STR roll to resist. The defender doesn't resist at all! The Defender must then make a Dex roll. The penalty to the Dex roll is how much Body the Aggressor rolled on his STR roll. If the Defender succeeds on his Dex roll at the required penalty, then he successfully slides away from the Aggressor, causing him to fall off-balance. This makes the Aggressor's DCV fall to 1/2 for the phase. The Defender may now make an immediate attack against the Aggressor's reduced DCV.

However, if the Defender fails the Dex roll, the Aggressor's action happends perfectly. Example: If the Aggressor was attempting to "Push" the Defender back, since the Defender didn't resist the push (and his Dex check failed) he is pushed back several inches...over a cliff!

Even if the Aggressor was merely attempting to "hold" the Weapon Bind, the GM should allow him a free attack against the defender...punishment for trying something so "foolish".

 

Other Options:

 

Pushing STR: Both the Aggressor and Defender may Push their STR at anytime during the Weapon Bind. Obviously this is to help in either maintaining or breaking the Weapon Bind. When one character chooses to Push, the other character may Push in response. This oftentimes breaks down into a contest of who has more Endurance.

 

Stunned: A character who has been Stunned during a Weapon Bind can only use their Casual STR for the STR contest and cannot initiate any Agressor Options against an opponent. The Defender also may not choose to use any options either and may only use Casual STR to resist.

 

Casual STR: A character may choose to use Casual STR for the STR contest, in which case it is a 0phase action for them. For the Aggressor, this means he may use a 0phase action instead of a 1/2 phase action to maintain the Weapon Bind. For the Defender, breaking or reversing the Weapon Bind with Casual STR leaves him a full-phase with which to act upon.

 

Two Weapon Fighting: Characters who use TWF vs characters with only a single weapon have a big advantage when it comes to Weapon Bind. First, if the Aggressor in a Weapon Bind is using TWF, he may use one weapon to Bind while leaving the other weapon free to attack. This is highly effective in many genres. The Aggressor may also opt to use both weapons to Bind his oponent with. This gives him a leverage bonus against an opponent with only 1 weapon. Note: he must make two seperate attack rolls to Bind, and if both are successful, he gets a +5STR bonus (in addition to the bonus for Weapon Bind maneuver) for using both weapons to bind his opponents weapon.

If the Defender in a Weapon Bind is using TWF vs the Aggressors single weapon, and only a single weapon is bound, the Defender may still use the unbound weapon to attack, though this is at 1/2 OCV in addition to other penalties associated with Weapon Bind.

An attacker with a Single weapon may attempt to use the Sweep maneuver to bind both weapons of an opponent using TWF, but as above, the Defender gets +5STR to STR vs STR rolls to break-out or Reverse the bind because of the additional leverage having two weapons gives him.

 

Well, thats what I've come up with so far. Is there anything anyone can think of to add to this, or to improve what I've already come up with?

[Kyle A.]

Re: Weapon Bind: New options

 

I can't think of anything to add to this. This is genius and, in my opinion, should be added to the UMA.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Weapon Bind: New options

 

Nice job! This is going into my options for my FH game.

Well done... expands weapon bind the same way that Ninja Hero originally expanded Grab.

Repped

[Black Rose]

Re: Weapon Bind: New options

 

As usual, anything that springs forth from your fevered mind is pure gaming gold, NSG. Now, if only you'd get your butt back to sunny San Diego so I could get into another game of yours.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Weapon Bind: New options

 

As usual' date=' anything that springs forth from your fevered mind is pure gaming gold, NSG. Now, if only you'd get your butt back to sunny San Diego so I could get into another game of yours.[/quote']

 

Only 3 weeks left to go!

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Weapon Bind: New options

 

Thanks for the kind words everyone. I'm glad my work is appreciated, even if its by only a few...

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Weapon Bind: New options

 

hmm. Bump for those who haven't seen it yet.

[mikesama]

Re: Weapon Bind: New options

 

As an interesting note almost all of the weapon binds in historical single weapon styles are done immediatly after a block and useally with an open hand. This seems to be true regarding Lichtenauer, Talhoffer, Wallerstien and De Liberi. Other maestroes I cannot comment on as I haven't seen any translations of thier manuals.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Weapon Bind: New options

 

I'm an advanced fencer, so I have some feedback that could add more realism, but could probably be ingnored if the intent is more along fictional/theatrical dramatic lines.

 

First, some general notes. In fencing, the general act of placing your blade against the opponent's and taking control such that they cannot directly attack you is called a, "blade capture," or, "taking the blade." After a blade capture there are several options for continuing the attack: direct attack, bind, croise, opposition, and envelopment [EDIT: all but the direct attack and opposition--similar to your, "Hold"--involve changes in line, which could possibly fall under the umbrella of, "Surprise Maneuvers," or a simultaneous Presence Attack]. The final attack may consist of any of these, with the attacker's blade either coming off the opponent's, or executing a glide along the opposing blade. It sounds to me as if what is being discussed here is the general act of blade capture (or in general controlling the opponent's weapon with your own).

 

With that in mind, the actual maneuver is not at all one of strength. In fencing particularly the idea is to capture the opponent's weapon in such a way that even an incredible amount of strength will do the opponent no good (specifically, you use the close/proximal/strong part of your weapon to control the far/distal/weak end of the oppoenent's weapon; thus the amount of leverage required both by the opponent and his/her weapon to resist is enormous).

 

This is the effect if the maneuver is successful. The case may be somewhat different for short or strong weapons, but this should probably just be reflected in a penalty to the attack roll. I would suggest taking Strength contests completely out of the resolution of a Bind. At the very least, it should be very, very difficult for the defender to directly oppose the maneuver with Str, and for the attacker there really is no point to pushing a weapon even further out of the way (it would, in fact, simply create a large opening for the opponent). The act of maneuvering the opponent's weapon to such a position that application of Str can be used to move them should simply be the SFX of a Shove or Move Through performed as in your, "Attack," option above.

 

Also, I wouldn't impose any penalties for the defender to, "Disengage." This is a completely valid tactic. I would instead give the attacker the choice of turning it into a, "Push/Give Ground," situation. If the attacker chooses to go along, resolve it like, "Give Ground." If not, simply allow the defender to move away and escape the Bind. After all, it is going to move the defender out of reach, so if (s)he wishes to counter immediately after escaping, it will require a Move By, Move Through, etc.

 

Another valid tactic for the defender should simply be to wait for the attacker's final attack, and Block (yes, Block!). The timing can be tricky, and it can be a daunting thing to wait for the action, so you might impose a slight penalty to the Block and possibly allow the attacker to perform a Presence Attack with a bonus in this situation (to make the defender, "Disengage," Dodge, or falter with the Held/Aborted Action instead of properly Blocking).

 

I would resolve your, "Overbear," option as requiring an additional attack roll (with an OCV penalty, as getting the opponent's weapon in a position where you can force your weapon directly at them is going to be tricky), then requiring the Str vs. Str contest. However, the defender should be given the option, instead of simply opposing, of executing a Block or Dive for Cover (probably with a penalty), or simply coming off of the attacker's blade to launch a counter attack (in which case the attacker should immediately hit the defender). BTW, a, "Reversal," by the defender is not going to be likely unless the attacker tries to, "Overbear," or the defender first manages to escape from the Bind somehow.

 

I would drop the, "Shunt," option, and simply call it an, "Attack," that uses the weapon the attacker used to Bind and allows the defender to escape the Bind (but probably gives a minor OCV bonus). I would also add a, "Glide," option that allows the attacker to attack with the weapon used to Bind, keeps the defender in the Bind, but imposes an OCV penalty (in fencing, you must attack with a bent wrist in order to stay on the opponent's blade through the completion of the attack; this makes it slightly more difficult to keep the attack on-target). The defender should be able to Block in either case (but probably with a penalty as I mentioned above).

 

As a minor point, I would simply let your, "Shove," option fall under the umbrella of the, "Attack," option.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Weapon Bind: New options

 

Oh. Since I recommend pulling Str contests completely out of Bind resolution (except for, "Overbear"), I would suggest giving an OCV bonus instead to any maneuvers/options executed with two weapons (as you describe under, "Two Weapon Fighting").

[prestidigitator]

Re: Weapon Bind: New options

 

Oh. Sorry. One more. I meant to comment on, "Disarm," as well. Realistically, this is incredibly unlikely from the position of controlling the opponent's blade (though I know it is done in the movies a lot). I would allow a Grab of the opponent's weapon with the, "Attack," option instead. You could change the SFX if you wanted it to resemble the Princess-Bride-like disarm-with-an-envelopment.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Weapon Bind: New options

 

Thanks for the input guys!

 

Obviously, the reason the STR contest is there is because that is part of the mechanics behind Weapon Bind. The mechanics of Weapon Bind do take into account that it is difficult to escape a Weapon Bind with STR alone....any character who does not posses the Weapon Bind (or Escape maneuver) is pretty much screwed, unless they are freakishly strong (STR 20 or 25) going up against an opponent of Average STR. Skill is better for dealing with that situation (as in possesing the Weapon Bind or Martial Escape maneuvers). Skill levels could figure into the equation as well: Each +2 CSL's spent adding +5STR for purposes of the STR contest. (same as adding +1 DC to an attack)

[CraterMaker]

Re: Weapon Bind: New options

 

I love this, NSG, as has been said it's pure brilliance. I certainly hope this gets put SOMEWHERE permanent..

 

Quick question - What would the game effects/penalties be if a two weapon attacker used one of his weapons to bind a one weapon defender, and then attacked the defenders weapon with his extra weapon? Assume no penalties for off-hand attacks for ease of explanation..

 

I'm thinking about a Viking that uses two single-bit axes for a villain, and this sounds like a suitably cinimatic thing for him to do..

 

-CraterMaker

[Lanith]

Re: Weapon Bind: New options

 

I guess I'll have to be the bad guy here and say that I don't like it. I'll give my reasons in a moment.

Yes, most of these are very valid things that you can do once you have an opponents weapon bound and I can see it being very cinematic. It's lots of extra things to add to combat, I try to keep my combat quick and easy. Hero has lots of rules and modifiers to start with.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Weapon Bind: New options

 

I love this, NSG, as has been said it's pure brilliance. I certainly hope this gets put SOMEWHERE permanent..

 

Quick question - What would the game effects/penalties be if a two weapon attacker used one of his weapons to bind a one weapon defender, and then attacked the defenders weapon with his extra weapon? Assume no penalties for off-hand attacks for ease of explanation..

 

I'm thinking about a Viking that uses two single-bit axes for a villain, and this sounds like a suitably cinimatic thing for him to do..

 

-CraterMaker

 

Good question!

 

I'll have to think about that for a bit. I'm sure a variation on the weapon breakage rules found in Fantasy Hero will suffice. Probably with the appropriate bonuses and penalties that Bind brings to the table...

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Weapon Bind: New options

 

I guess I'll have to be the bad guy here and say that I don't like it. I'll give my reasons in a moment.

Yes, most of these are very valid things that you can do once you have an opponents weapon bound and I can see it being very cinematic. It's lots of extra things to add to combat, I try to keep my combat quick and easy. Hero has lots of rules and modifiers to start with.

 

Oh, I knew not everyone would like them, so no offense.

 

They aren't that difficult to implement. Its just a guideline for those players who ask "I've got his weapon bound; now what do I do with him?" Me, I like a lot of options for stuff like this, and so do a lot of other people running around out there, but I realise that there are just as many people who prefer to keep things as quick and as simple as possible.

[SuperKlaus]

Re: Weapon Bind: New options

 

I'm on a resurrection tour, baby! I'm getting the impression you've written quite a lot about HERO System combat, NuSoard. You should get that stuff handily organized, maybe as an addendum to the Systems Converted list, cuz I think I'd like to see it.

 

Shunt: Shunting is where the Aggressor pushes the Defender's weapon down and out of the way, then immediately attacks with his weapon at full Strength. This is different from Overbear in that it only takes 1 phase (either it succeeds or it doesn't) and the Aggressor may apply STR to the attack if he so desires. The weakness of this particular option is that the Defender can abort to dodge if he so desires. Also, if the Aggressor misses with this attack, it leave him open to immediate counter-attack by the Defender (if the Defender has a phase available) so it is risky.

The Aggressor still recieves the benefit of attacking an opponent with a reduced DCV but will be unable to defend himself if he misses until his next opportunity to abort (the next segment at the earliest)

 

Love what you've got here because I too have looked at Bind and wondered "why would anyone do it?". I have to ask, however, what you mean by "reduced DCV." UMA says the Binder and Bound are at full CV against each other. If I missed a part where you instated a penalty, sorry.

 

Also, I wasn't quite clear on whether you intended these to be available right away after the Bind is established or if the Binder has to wait 'til next Phase.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Weapon Bind: New options

 

 

 

 

Love what you've got here because I too have looked at Bind and wondered "why would anyone do it?". I have to ask, however, what you mean by "reduced DCV." UMA says the Binder and Bound are at full CV against each other. If I missed a part where you instated a penalty, sorry.

 

You are correct, in that the defender in a Bind has their full DCV against the attacker (though they are 1/2DCV against other attackers) so in most cases, their DCV will not be affected. However, in the case of an Overbear attack, the defender should be considered 1/2DCV. (but remember, the agressor doesn't get to add STR to the attack because its being used to maintain the Bind)

 

Also, I wasn't quite clear on whether you intended these to be available right away after the Bind is established or if the Binder has to wait 'til next Phase.

 

In a Shunt, they would have to wait until the phase after the initial Weapon Bind, unless the GM wants to allow a Multiple Power Attack of Bind and Shunt all in 1 phase. I would suggest a -2OCV penalty (and 1/2DCV) for any such action.