Presense vs. Mind Control?

[Ndreare]

I am curious how Presense vs. Mind Control balance out. I look at the chart and they seem the exact same. However, PResense gets free dice for setting, cost 0-END and seems to work as AOE. Mind Control does not get free dice, gives the same bonuses/effects, cost END, & does not affact your skill rolls. Other than being able to use it as a "Mental" power (easy advantage you could buy for pre and put cost end on for more effect less cost)

 

How do you compare the two game mechanicly? I know how they compare concept wise but the is the HERO system that is based on mechanics not FX.

[archermoo]

Re: Presense vs. Mind Control?

 

While they may seem somewhat similar initially, they have very different game effects. At the basic leve (>EGO/PRE) a Presence attack doesn't do much except get a hesitation, wheras an MC gets the target to either do something he's inclined to do anyway or believe something they don't already know is false. At the high end (>EGO/PRE +30) a Presence attack scares the crap out of someone, possibly making them run away, and making them likely to do what the attacker says. With an MC, the target will do even things they are violently opposed to doing or will believe anything the attacker says.

 

In addition, with MC you can make the target believe that they did what they were controlled to do on their own, or even make them forget what they did entirely. Your target will also continue doing as ordered/believing what they were told until they succeed in breaking out of the power.

 

Presence attacks are much more limited, and only last as long as the GM deems appropriate.

 

So, as I said, they might seem at first glance to be somewhat similar, but they are in fact very different effects.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Presense vs. Mind Control?

 

There are a lot of similarities and some overlap, but the difference is really one of finesse, to my mind. At the top level of Presence Attack, you induce some sort of emotion - be it fear, awe, love - in one or more targets and they then react to you in accordance with that emotion. The duration is not specified but I would usually play it that it fades rapidly outside the immediate presence of the attacker AND that repeated applications would give a defensive bonus: yes Thundra is still damn impressive, but you've seen it all before....

 

For clearing a room, PRE attack is your baby. For assassinating the head of Globe Corp though, you'll need something more precise, and for that you'll probably need mind control on a trusted advisor or even on a security guard. PRE-controlled characters will do what they think they should based on the circumstances. Mind -controlled charactcers will do what you tell them!

 

Also you can't really narrow the focus of PRE attacks: they effect everyone, friend and foe (although friends should have (possibly considerable) bonuses). You might yell FREEZE!!, and everyone does: including your guys.

 

The other thing is that PRE attacks are by their nature highly noticeable: they have to be to work, and there is rarely anything very subtle about them. Mind control, OTOH, can work at line of sight and effectively invisibly: it is virtually impossible for an unprepared target to stop completely and it is virtually impossible for someone without powers to know that a target is mind controlled except by some very cunning observation of behaviour and appropriate deduction. Someone reacting to love or awe or fear is generally far easier to spot.

 

Finally PRE attacks are highly situational: the only thing that effects the level of effect of MC is if the target has an appropriate psych lim. Simply being in combat makes PRE attacks less effective.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Presense vs. Mind Control?

 

PRE-controlled characters will do what they think they should based on the circumstances. Mind -controlled charactcers will do what you tell them!

 

This statement is really what it boils down to. Nice assessment, Sean.