Base Points Question

[Lord Hobie]

I notice in thumbing through various Hero texts that the base points level seems to vary by campaign style rather than individual character. By way of example, most of the characters in GALACTIC CHAMPIONS are built on 550 base points + disads, where most of the characters in ARCANE ADVERSARIES are built on 200 base points + disads, even though certain characters in ARCANE ADVERSARIES (Kings of Edom) would seem to be tailor made for higher base point totals. Is this a Hero design choice to standardize base point totals across campaigns? Would there be any real effect in 'individualizing' base point totals for NPCs (in other words, going ahead and increasing a King of Edom's base total to 550 and reducing its experience/villain bonus)?

 

Also, take Hudson City for example. Is there any harm in mixing 150+100 low-powered supers with 75+75 heroic normals (who can buy equipment with money)?

 

Very interested in any and all input.

 

Many thanks,

Lord Hobie

[Supreme Serpent]

Re: Base Points Question

 

I notice in thumbing through various Hero texts that the base points level seems to vary by campaign style rather than individual character. By way of example, most of the characters in GALACTIC CHAMPIONS are built on 550 base points + disads, where most of the characters in ARCANE ADVERSARIES are built on 200 base points + disads, even though certain characters in ARCANE ADVERSARIES (Kings of Edom) would seem to be tailor made for higher base point totals. Is this a Hero design choice to standardize base point totals across campaigns? Would there be any real effect in 'individualizing' base point totals for NPCs (in other words, going ahead and increasing a King of Edom's base total to 550 and reducing its experience/villain bonus)?

 

Also, take Hudson City for example. Is there any harm in mixing 150+100 low-powered supers with 75+75 heroic normals (who can buy equipment with money)?

 

Very interested in any and all input.

 

Many thanks,

Lord Hobie

 

I think the first part is just convenience. A 200pt base villain with 384pts of "Villain Bonus" is really just a 584pt base villain. It's just easier to add on the bonus at the end than go back and tweak everyone's base points.

 

For the second part, I think it could work, but you would need to balance things carefully, and make sure everyone is familiar with the "rules" for the campaign - super characters won't "borrow" grenades from the normals, etc.

 

Here's how I would suggest running such a "mixed" game. Have disad points available be equal - either say (for example) 100pts disads, or just leave disads open - get as few or as many as you want to support your build, but all must be (of course) GM approved. This would mainly be for the supers, who could take vulnerabilities, etc. as a trade-off for more power. In the base points, that's where the difference would be. I'd try to figure out the amount of "real points" the normals would generally have, and base the spread on that - in effect, the normals have a gadget/equipment pool. Say, supers start with 125 base points, normals with 75 base points, normals generally have access to about 50 real points worth of "stuff" at any given time. Alternately, you could just set the points the same and have the normals buy their equipment pools.

[Kirby]

Re: Base Points Question

 

Also' date=' take Hudson City for example. Is there any harm in mixing 150+100 low-powered supers with 75+75 heroic normals (who can buy equipment with money)?[/quote']

I don't think there is. "Back in the day" of 4th Ed, I used to run a campaign where a villainous group had 75+ soldiers who received their equipment for free (though I don't believe I gave them 75 pts of disads). It didn't hamper the game any, since the heroes could blow through them (as long as they weren't heavily outnumbered).

[Lightray]

Also' date=' take Hudson City for example. Is there any harm in mixing 150+100 low-powered supers with 75+75 heroic normals (who can buy equipment with money)?[/quote']

Although it's not quite that low power level, I actually run a game where the players have characters at differing power levels. They frequently have one or two 600 pt PCs teaming up with several 300 pt PCs without problems.

 

The trick is to keep the Active Points, Damage Classes, and DEF caps the same, and to enforce niche protection for characters.

 

By this I mean that every character is limited to the same attack and defense power level on their powers. The higher point characters are merely allowed to have more options.

 

And on niche protection, I mean that other characters should not overshadow someone's "niche". If there's a stealth guy or skill girl on the team, they should be the best at what they do. If Stealth Guy is 300 pts and has a 17- Stealth roll, then 600 pt Does-Everything Guy should not be allowed to have a 23- Stealth roll.

 

This gives everyone something to contribute, and ensures that the lower-power PCs aren't knocked out of the action only to watch the higher-power PCs do everything.

 

You might also consider running things "troupe style", as I do, where each player has a PC at each power level. Either you or the players chose which PCs join the adventure, based on that adventure's premise.

[Fox1]

Re: Base Points Question

 

There isn't really any problem with mixing points. The truth is, they don't matter all that much. If chararcters have a niche in the adventure, it works.

 

Since the very first edition I've ran a "point's don't matter" campaign. I've had differences of up to 600 points between characters on the same team and adventure, let alone in the same setting.

 

All that goes double for NPCs. I've had -20 point NPCs all the way up to 2000+ NPCs. IMO, NPCs can and should run the full range in any setting.

 

So my advice is to constructs things as they best make sense for you. The books don't always do things in the most rational way in any case.

[Kirby]

Re: Base Points Question

 

Rereading the posts, I'm reminded of a three person group I sent against a PC once. In a campaign I was running, one of the PC's was an alien cat mentalist being and the Pure Earth Society aspect of Genocide didn't like her being around. When she left the METE building one day, they had ambushed her and nearly killed her. The NPCs each had one weapon (75 Active points, but with the OAF limitation) each and had several skill levels. The NPCs were built on 100 points total and she was 250 points Their defenses were 8 or less with DCVs 6 or less and 3 SPD and none more than 30 Stun; however, the PC was in such a shock that she never attacked back at them (it was an ambush). She also forgot to call for help until she had run away. Anyway, the point is that the character points don't necessarily reflect how powerful a character is. It depends on how you write them up. The NPCs I wrote about could be taken out by anyone with NCM, but someone with more than that didn't because I set up an ambush and the PC went purely defensive.

 

I hope that makes sense and I hope it helps some.

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: Base Points Question

 

I agree with Kerby, i once saw a 200pt heroic character with maybe a 200pt club, beat the tar out of a 700pt superman

[Kirby]

Re: Base Points Question

 

I agree with Kerby....

Hey, it's Kirby! With an "I"

 

Heck, it's spelled for you.