Superman

[Hawksmoor]

Re: Superman

 

Yet Accidental Change gives you an immediate or progressive powers off option.

 

Yes, Susceptability and Dependence are options but Accidental Change/OIHID are elegant and don't provide munchkinism.

 

OTOH, to use OIHID takes a bit of flexiblity in reading the text. For me it is the same as OIHID Powered Armors, or OIHID Thors/ Captain Marvel. Why? Because in a game with Superman or the like PC the GM is going to find ways to make that -1/4 limitation crop up and render Superman mortal...mostly.

 

Hawksmoor

[MitchellS]

Re: Superman

 

Yet Accidental Change gives you an immediate or progressive powers off option.

 

Yes, Susceptability and Dependence are options but Accidental Change/OIHID are elegant and don't provide munchkinism.

 

OTOH, to use OIHID takes a bit of flexiblity in reading the text. For me it is the same as OIHID Powered Armors, or OIHID Thors/ Captain Marvel. Why? Because in a game with Superman or the like PC the GM is going to find ways to make that -1/4 limitation crop up and render Superman mortal...mostly.

 

Hawksmoor

It's not the same to me because Thor/Captain Marvel can be caught with their pants down, so to speak. The limitation can be enforced in different ways with them. With Supes it can only be enforced with kryptonite/magic.

[Hawksmoor]

Re: Superman

 

To me OIHID means he actualy has to "activate" his powers somehow' date=' even if it is only a zero phase action.[/quote']

 

What do you call sudden exposure to Yellow Sun Radiation? Or getting Starman to give him a recharge after being drained by the Parasite?

 

These are Clark Kent getting his 0 phase action to turn into Superman. Yes, he spends the vast majority of the time as a superhero with powers, but not so rarely he gets his powers removed, albeit temporarily.

 

Then there is the why don't Daxamites/Kryptonians have powers at home. Answer because they can't activate their OIHID because there is a negating factor. Remove that negating factor and whammo Super Powers!

 

Hawksmoor

[Hawksmoor]

Re: Superman

 

It's not the same to me because Thor/Captain Marvel can be caught with their pants down' date=' so to speak. The limitation can be enforced in different ways with them. With Supes it can only be enforced with kryptonite/magic.[/quote']

 

Which turn up with about the same frequency as Superman gets his powers negated by his vulnerability. It is all in the balances the GM thinks he can toss at the character. From what I see the frequency of enforcement runs about the same for straight from the book OIHID as it does for Superman's vulnerabilities.

 

Hawksmoor

[OddHat]

Re: Superman

 

Yeah' date=' my point was that a 1d6 drain with a +2 advantage is a 30 ap power, not a 10 ap power. I'd also rather not get into using specific powers within the disadvantage. When you do that then you need to start thinking about specific defenses. A Susceptability should be beyond the concept of defenses. I'd just prefer they include a weakness aspect to the disadvantage. That way you can say something like: Each d6 does either stun or weakness damage. And you should also be able to have more than 3d6.[/quote']

 

Um...yes? If you take this route, you'll be giving him a massive disad. As he's already an NPC, that isn't a problem. It might be a problem if he were a PC, but in a game with 1000+ point PCs the GM should feel free to relax disadvantage caps a bit. As to bypassing defenses, I'd rule that a drain from susceptability ignores power defense in the same way that a drain from a Side Effect ignores power defense; ymmv.

[OddHat]

Re: Superman

 

Yet Accidental Change gives you an immediate or progressive powers off option.

 

Yes, Susceptability and Dependence are options but Accidental Change/OIHID are elegant and don't provide munchkinism.

 

The -1/4 version of restrainable works as well. Munhkinism isn't a problem if he's an NPC; he has as many points as the GM feels like giving him. If I had PC Kryptonians it might become a factor, but then I might do it as a physical limit (Powers do not work at all under infrequent circumstances, greatly impairing); feels less munchkiny to me than a -1/4 limit on everything.

[MitchellS]

Re: Superman

 

Which turn up with about the same frequency as Superman gets his powers negated by his vulnerability. It is all in the balances the GM thinks he can toss at the character. From what I see the frequency of enforcement runs about the same for straight from the book OIHID as it does for Superman's vulnerabilities.

 

Hawksmoor

You're free to do it however you want. OIHID just doesn't work for me. In my mind it represents something apart from just losing abilities due to unusual circumstances. To me, OIHID represents some sort of transformation: Stark into Ironman, Blake into Thor, Batson into Capt. Marvel, Rasputin into Colossus, etc. It doesn't represent Super-Superman into Weak-Superman in my mind.

[MitchellS]

Re: Superman

 

Um...yes? If you take this route' date=' you'll be giving him a massive disad. As he's already an NPC, that isn't a problem. It might be a problem if he were a PC, but in a game with 1000+ point PCs the GM should feel free to relax disadvantage caps a bit. As to bypassing defenses, I'd rule that a drain from susceptability ignores power defense in the same way that a drain from a Side Effect ignores power defense; ymmv.[/quote']

I really don't have a problem with disads being expensive. Most well-established characters, pc or npc, have disads in excess of the 50 point threshold. People like Superman and Batman have hunteds which exceed 100 points. Not all game limits make sense or need to be enforced, IMO.

[OddHat]

Re: Superman

 

I really don't have a problem with disads being expensive. Most well-established characters' date=' pc or npc, have disads in excess of the 50 point threshold. People like Superman and Batman have hunteds which exceed 100 points. Not all game limits make sense or need to be enforced, IMO.[/quote']

 

Agreed. I don't use hard point caps on disads or powers as such in my campaigns; instead I look at the effect that the power or disad will have in play and go from there. I do sometimes think about point caps when posting something to the boards or such; helps avoid rules arguments.

[Kirby]

Re: Superman

 

Then there is the why don't Daxamites/Kryptonians have powers at home.

For half of this is because Kryptonians no longer have a home.

Answer because they can't activate their OIHID because there is a negating factor.

But how many Daxamites are superheroes on their home planet? They don't decide to become supers on their home planet, they do it elsewhere.

Remove that negating factor and whammo Super Powers!

But that's not a sudden "whammo." Chances are, they're going to know they're leaving a yellow sun environment.

 

FYI: OiHID is supposed to take a full phase or longer for the change, so there *shouldn't* be a 0-phase change, otherwise it wouldn't be worth a limitation.

 

Like it's been said, it's your creation and you can do the writeup how you wish, but you not only asked what we thought, but made a comment about being surprised no one responded. Now we're just saying we don't like that limitation, but do agree with the limitation amount.

[Hawksmoor]

Re: Superman

 

:Grin: I am merely trying to explain why I think it works.

 

I dislike the Not under a Red Sun limitation variants. I think that a 1800+ point character should not simply be negated by a Physical Limitation.

 

That said I like the options presented. I would prefer more analysis of the powerset though.

 

Hawksmoor

[OddHat]

Re: Superman

 

I think that a 1800+ point character should not simply be negated by a Physical Limitation.

 

I don't mind; that's why it's worth points as a disadvantage.

[Hawksmoor]

Re: Superman

 

But then I get clunky constructs like the 1500+ point Magistrate Lornor Hess of Daxam. All the powers of Superman, some baseline powers actually stronger, but can't access them because of a Physical Limitation?

 

Nah!

 

I'll go with OIHID.

 

Hawksmoor

[OddHat]

Re: Superman

 

But then I get clunky constructs like the 1500+ point Magistrate Lornor Hess of Daxam. All the powers of Superman, some baseline powers actually stronger, but can't access them because of a Physical Limitation?

 

Nah!

 

I'll go with OIHID.

 

I'll go with restrainable at -1/4, or a phys limit.

 

As to great powers not available due to a phys limit, how many people can exert their upper body strength with dislocated shoulders?

[Hawksmoor]

Re: Superman

 

Hmmm. I missed that one.

 

Restrainable...

 

I think I like it.

 

Repped.

 

Hawksmoor

[shaunclinton]

Re: Superman

 

I liked my method better, you can see the write up here:

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33061

 

Kryptonian disadvantage linked to all his powers.

 

Covers the following situations...

 

1) Kryptonite (renders virtually powerless)

2) Red Sun (makes him maybe 75% weaker, but see below)

3) Loss/Alteration of power in certain magical environments

4) Loss of power as he loses solar power

 

The 4th one there is the biggie.

 

You also need most (but not all) of his defence bought with Not vs. Magic, don't buy this for his Damage Reduction.

 

You then need a few additional disadvantages to map it out properly.

 

Susc. to Kryptonite does damage

Susc. to Kryptonite which drains END reserve

Susc. to Red Solar Radiation which drains END reserve

Susc. to BODY Damage, drains END reserve (1d6/BOD)

 

Physical Limitation: Susc. to Kryptonite Effects

 

Vulnerability: x2 Effect from Magic

Vulnerability: x1 1/2 STUN from Magic

Vulnerability: x2 Effect from Energy Drains

 

OHID isn't appropriate and doesn't cover the same range and variety of situations.

 

Using the system above is more complicated, just to explain point 4.

 

Say you give him an END Reserve with 800 END in it.

At END 800 he has STR 140, when the reserve drops to 600 he has STR 120, 500 = 100 STR, 400 = 80 STR, 300 = 70 STR, 200 = 60 STR, 100 = 50 STR, 0 = 25 STR. This represents his solar charge and the fact it can be exhausted.

 

This models fairly well the various power losses Superman seems to suffer;

 

1) Kryptonite negates his powers immediately, long term exposure leaves his powers reduced (END Reserve drain) and then excessive exposure will kill him.

 

2) Magic does him more damage, but he doesn't get immediately pasted by it. However transformative/draining magic effects seem to get him real easy.

 

3) He needs power def to survive certain Radiation/Energy/Poison/Disease effects, the Vuln to Energy Drains represents the sort of things that Parasite and the like use on him.

 

4) Red Solar energy immediately reduces his power somewhat (I'd suggest 75%) but then (by the mechanism of draining his END reserve) will 'eat into his solar energy stores' which is what it's supposed to do, eventually leaving him powerless.

 

5) Physical Limitation against Kryptonite represents things like Red Kryptonite and the ilk, but also represents the pain he feels when exposed to Kryptonite, it seems certain that he needs an EGO test at least to act when in it's presence.

 

6) It also simulates him using up END as he fights long battles, such as the one against Doomsday... especially against opponents that can hurt him as this seems to cut into his reserves. Eventually depowering him.

 

There are a few other things that should be going on in there, the most important that spring to mind are these:

 

a) His END Reserve REC should be limited by available daylight (Maybe 5 at night, 50 in equatorial sunshine and 60 in space with no atmosphere) but should also reduce with the reserve, perhaps even becoming per Minute, 5 Minutes, Hour, etc. at the bottom to represent how long it takes a fully depowered Kryptonian to gain power under a yellow sun.

 

END for all his powers should come half from his personal END and half from the reserve.