And in his wake ... desolation (Power Design Help)

[ghost-angel]

I need a bit of help and/or advice. This is for a Villain, not a PC, and thus the AP and RP cost are of no consequence. I thought about just story boarding it, but something in me wants to stat this. Especially since I'm making another character that is the opposite of this one that is being made PC Worthy.

 

The character in question will slowly destroy a planet, turing the soil to sand and effectively killing it's ability to hold any major forms of life. He makes desery planets.

 

It's also over a long period of time. I was thinking Transform: Living Planet to Dead Planet; NND, Continuous, Uncontrolled, 0END, Always On, Inherent, NND (would it need Does Body?), Gradual Effect

 

I figure that would allow him to walk the Earth so to speak and pockets of dying planet would crop up behind him and eventually the entire planets ecosystem collapses.

 

The other character can reverse this effect - weather by mere presence (as a way to undo the firsts Transform and be the DEF for NND) or through another power I'm not sure which would be the most elegant.

 

Anyone got any suggestions how to model this or am I actually on the right track?

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: And in his wake ... desolation (Power Design Help)

 

a huge change environment maybe?

[ghost-angel]

Re: And in his wake ... desolation (Power Design Help)

 

I was thinking that ... but ran into a problem of either it'd be rediculously massive, or there's no way for it to nicely spread behind him so to speak...

 

Unless someone can think of a way that CE can "grow" as he walks/spends time on a planet?

[Fenixcrest]

Re: And in his wake ... desolation (Power Design Help)

 

I was thinking that ... but ran into a problem of either it'd be rediculously massive, or there's no way for it to nicely spread behind him so to speak...

 

Unless someone can think of a way that CE can "grow" as he walks/spends time on a planet?

 

Maybe you could give it the Uncontrolled and Sticky, No END, and Persistent advantages, so it just spreads around to stuff that's adjacent to it forever.

[ghost-angel]

Re: And in his wake ... desolation (Power Design Help)

 

Maybe you could give it the Uncontrolled and Sticky' date=' No END, and Persistent advantages, so it just spreads around to stuff that's adjacent to it forever.[/quote']

 

ooh .. forgot about sticky. I'll look into that. Sounds like it might be what I want/have in mind.

 

That's why I asked, because I miss stuff like this. Thanks!

[Mister E]

Re: And in his wake ... desolation (Power Design Help)

 

I think what I would do, is build it as a Major Transform able to target planets, turning them into lifeless Deserts, and then give the Power the "Partial Transform" Advantage.

 

With the Partial Transform Advantage, as the planet is taking Transform Damage, it begins to visibly change. The wake of destruction, where hundreds and then thousands of square miles of Earth's surface turn into Lifeless Desert, should be interpreted as simply cosmetic from a planetary point of view.

 

2/3's into the Earth's full Transformation, major atmospheric changes could start imposing penalties on Earth's inhabitants. This would be the Minor Transform fortelling the doom of a completely lifeless desert planet.

 

My favorite way to allow an attack to target an entire planet, is to give it the Transdimensional (Planetary Macro-Scale; +1/2) Advantage. To fully Transform the Planet Earth, should require at least 172 points worth of Transform BODY Damage, given a planet with a BODY of at least 86, I believe. I'd probably give Earth quite a bit of Power DEF too, but I wouldn't know where to begin with that.

 

If you Googled the Density of the Earth... and then cross refrensed that with the Power Density Increase... it might give you an idea of how much Power DEF it should have... not that that really means anything, of course.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: And in his wake ... desolation (Power Design Help)

 

ooh .. forgot about sticky. I'll look into that. Sounds like it might be what I want/have in mind.

 

That's why I asked, because I miss stuff like this. Thanks!

When I asked Steve about Sticky in a similar context, he ruled in the Rules Forum that it would only spread one "generation" further. I was asking about it for purposes of using it to model a power with the SFX of a disease. His answer was, in essence, this:

 

Person A infects Person B with "Sticky" disease Power.

 

Person B can infect anyone with whom they come into contact...say, person C and person D.

 

Person C and Person D cannot spread the disease themselves, because the "Sticky" only goes so far from the originator.

 

Now, you could simply ignore that...but unless you want the entire planet converted overnight, you'd better add either the Extra Time or Gradual Effect limitations to the power.

 

The other thing you could do is something like this:

 

1d6 Major Transform, 0 END Persistant Continuous Uncontrolled Sticky AoE: 1 Hex Gradual Effect Always On: Transform the land on which I'm standing into desert that also has the following Power:

 

1d6 Major Transform, 0 END Persistant Continuous Uncontrolled Sticky AoE: 1 Hex Gradual Effect Always On: Transform any hex of land touching the hex into desert with this exact same power.

[prestidigitator]

Re: And in his wake ... desolation (Power Design Help)

 

Hmm. Well, if you want the direct approach you could just go with a Continuous (and possibly Uncontrolled), Area of Effect (Explosion?), MegaScaled RKA that takes Extra Time and Only Works On Plants (-2). Just call, "poisoning the soil," a Special Effect. The character who reverses this could have a Dispel and some Resurrection Healing that Only Works On Plants (-2).

 

EDIT: BTW, why did the Transform proposal have NND? Do many planets in your setting have Power Defense?

[ghost-angel]

Re: And in his wake ... desolation (Power Design Help)

 

I actually have no idea if any planets in the setting have PowerDefense, it's a shared setting. I figured I'd just stop the argument with an end-run around the idea. It's a just in case scenario kind of thing.

 

Desolation Curse: Major Transform 2d6 (Living Planet into Dead Planet, healed back by presence of The Angel), Sticky (Freeing one victim frees all victims; +1/4), Inherent (+1/4), Area Of Effect (One Hex; +1/2), MegaScale (1" = 10 km; +1/2), Uncontrolled (+1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2), Partial Transform (+1/2), No Normal Defense ([standard]; +1), Continuous (+1) (195 Active Points); No Conscious Control (-2), Always On (-1/2), No Range (-1/2)

 

Ok, the Megscale is on the AoE, he walks over an area and 10km starts to die off, turning to desert and unusable land, water dries up, plants die, eventually the weather is effected after a point where the planet starts to change without his continued presence.

 

The Sticky should (if I'm thinking right) transfer this power to people he comes into contact with, making them "agents" in the curse. I'm thinking it'll take more than just touching people for a special effect - the two characters are still in development. The counterpart to this character (The Angel) can heal back the afflicted by similar means, not just a touch, but something else I think ... I'll figure that out as I go.

 

Thanks for the input .. it's helped me clarify this concept into game terms.

[prestidigitator]

Re: And in his wake ... desolation (Power Design Help)

 

I actually have no idea if any planets in the setting have PowerDefense, it's a shared setting. I figured I'd just stop the argument with an end-run around the idea. It's a just in case scenario kind of thing.

 

Desolation Curse: Major Transform 2d6 (Living Planet into Dead Planet, healed back by presence of The Angel), Sticky (Freeing one victim frees all victims; +1/4), Inherent (+1/4), Area Of Effect (One Hex; +1/2), MegaScale (1" = 10 km; +1/2), Uncontrolled (+1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2), Partial Transform (+1/2), No Normal Defense ([standard]; +1), Continuous (+1) (195 Active Points); No Conscious Control (-2), Always On (-1/2), No Range (-1/2)

 

Ok, the Megscale is on the AoE, he walks over an area and 10km starts to die off, turning to desert and unusable land, water dries up, plants die, eventually the weather is effected after a point where the planet starts to change without his continued presence.

 

The Sticky should (if I'm thinking right) transfer this power to people he comes into contact with, making them "agents" in the curse. I'm thinking it'll take more than just touching people for a special effect - the two characters are still in development. The counterpart to this character (The Angel) can heal back the afflicted by similar means, not just a touch, but something else I think ... I'll figure that out as I go.

 

Thanks for the input .. it's helped me clarify this concept into game terms.

Hmm. I'm not entirely sure on that use of Sticky. Usually those affected by a Sticky attack affect others if they contact them. I'd probably allow it, but it may not be officially kosher. You may need another Transform to change others into carriers of this Power.

[ghost-angel]

Re: And in his wake ... desolation (Power Design Help)

 

Hmm. I'm not entirely sure on that use of Sticky. Usually those affected by a Sticky attack affect others if they contact them. I'd probably allow it' date=' but it may not be officially kosher. You may need another Transform to change others into carriers of this Power.[/quote']

 

Yeah, I'm not either. I think it will go away. If for no other reason to remove a complication of the execution.

[Sean Waters]

Re: And in his wake ... desolation (Power Design Help)

 

Sticky won't work IMO: it is just one planet - nothing to stick to. Moreover if you treat each hex individually then it will effect only the hex he touches and any hex touching that - it will not continue to grow.

 

I'm assuming that this doesn't have direct effect on people?

 

This seems to me like a change environment, although doing it with a transform is fine, but I don't like using it unless I have to.

 

Starting with change environment (increase temperature (3) and 1 point of damage to plants (5)) or whatever. Let's allocate 10 points to this and call it done. That effects one hex. We best make it 0 END and persistent (+1). 20 points. Fine.

 

Area is one hex. We'll need some doublings. The earth is 40 thousand km around, which means you need 24 or 25 doublings to cover the whole planet, that's 24x5=120 points. Yowzah. You actually have to double that because of the 0 END Persistent advantages, so total cost 260 points. Mind you that means you can do it instantly.

 

Now pay attention: here is the cunning bit...

 

Apply 'gradual effect to the increased range only, say at the -2 (1 week) level - you may want longer or shorter, I don't know.

 

So 240 points at -2 is 80 points: the whole power costs 100 points (there are other advantages and limitations you can apply, of course, like uncontrolled and no conscious control and long-lasting), and will kill the plant life of a planet in a week, spreading slowly from wherever the villain treads (well, not that slowly: about 120 kmph, actually. Trust me, if all the plants die, the planet will die and turn into desert. If you make it GE: month it becomes 30kmph and GE: year is about 3 kmph: depends what you want, really.

 

There are a number of ways the 'good' charactecr can neutralise this, but the way I'd probably favour is building in a limitation to the power, unless you want the goody spending a similar amount on 'making the planet bloom', or having an uncontrolled drain v CE running constantly.

 

Sean

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: And in his wake ... desolation (Power Design Help)

 

Sticky won't work IMO: it is just one planet - nothing to stick to. Moreover if you treat each hex individually then it will effect only the hex he touches and any hex touching that - it will not continue to grow.

That's why I advocated doing something like this:

 

24 Desolation Follows In His Footsteps: Major Transform 1d6, 0 END (+1/2), Persistent (+1/2), Uncontrolled (+1/2), Sticky (+1/2), Area Of Effect (One Hex; +1/2), Continuous (+1); Gradual Effect (1 Hour; -1 1/4), Always On (-1/2) - Transform the hex I'm touching into desert with the following power:

 

24 Creeping Desolation Major Transform 1d6, 0 END (+1/2), Persistent (+1/2), Uncontrolled (+1/2), Sticky (+1/2), Area Of Effect (One Hex; +1/2), Continuous (+1); Gradual Effect (1 Hour; -1 1/4), Always On (-1/2) - Transform any hex touching this one into desert with the same power.

 

 

...not only does it transform the hex into desert, but it gives it the ability to do the same to every other hex touching it. 'Sticky' isn't, strictly speaking, necessary under these circumstances, but it only makes a 2-point difference in the cost and it speeds the transformation of the planet up just a bit.

 

So if 'Sticky' isn't necessary and I want to speed up the transformation, why not just use a larger Area of Effect or Megascale or something? Simple. First, in this way the area will grow slowly at first, so there's more time to try and stop it; as the area gets larger and larger, though, it will spread faster and faster as a larger number of hexes (a larger circle) will be affected after each cycle of conversion. In other words, the longer you put off doing something about it, the harder it will be to stop and the less time you'll have to do something about it. Secondly, by using a combination of Gradula Effect and Sticky, I get the slow-at-first-but-gradually-accelerating change that I wanted, instead of having to fiddle with partially-limited Advantages and messy things like that.

 

 

Edit: I almost fogot! You get one other advantage for your evil plan by using 'Sticky' -- anyone who touches him...shakes hands, whatever -- also becomes an unwitting agent for spreading the desolation! So the 'good' character would have the task not only of stopping the 'evil' character and reversing the desolation, but finding all those who are unknowing carriers of the 'affliction' and stopping them from spreading it, too!

[Sean Waters]

Re: And in his wake ... desolation (Power Design Help)

 

That's why I advocated doing something like this:

 

24 Desolation Follows In His Footsteps: Major Transform 1d6, 0 END (+1/2), Persistent (+1/2), Uncontrolled (+1/2), Sticky (+1/2), Area Of Effect (One Hex; +1/2), Continuous (+1); Gradual Effect (1 Hour; -1 1/4), Always On (-1/2) - Transform the hex I'm touching into desert with the following power:

 

24 Creeping Desolation Major Transform 1d6, 0 END (+1/2), Persistent (+1/2), Uncontrolled (+1/2), Sticky (+1/2), Area Of Effect (One Hex; +1/2), Continuous (+1); Gradual Effect (1 Hour; -1 1/4), Always On (-1/2) - Transform any hex touching this one into desert with the same power.

...

Edit: I almost fogot! You get one other advantage for your evil plan by using 'Sticky' -- anyone who touches him...shakes hands, whatever -- also becomes an unwitting agent for spreading the desolation! So the 'good' character would have the task not only of stopping the 'evil' character and reversing the desolation, but finding all those who are unknowing carriers of the 'affliction' and stopping them from spreading it, too!

 

Didn't appreciate the subtlety, but a couple of points:

 

1. If the transform target is 'hexes' then you can't pass it on to people.

 

2. This is going to be slow: 1d6 averages 3 points. One hex of dirt is 16 BODY + (24/5) for the transform = 21 BODY, or 7 hours to transform one hex - and the 'cruse' then spreads 2 metres in every direction every 7 hours. As far as I can see, while the area starts to ramp up pretty quickly, the radius is going to continue to grow at just 6 metres a day, or thereabouts, so it will take nearly six thousand years to destroy the whole planet. OK it will be dead before that for other reasons, but it is still going to be a LOOOOOONG time.

 

3. There's something about this I'm not liking but can't put my finger on yet.

 

Still, an innovative approach.

 

Sean

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: And in his wake ... desolation (Power Design Help)

 

Didn't appreciate the subtlety, but a couple of points:

 

1. If the transform target is 'hexes' then you can't pass it on to people.

 

2. This is going to be slow:

Hmmm...I'm not sure about #1; I'd have to go back and see exactly what the wording of 'Sticky' is. Assuming you're right, though...and you often are...give him a 2nd 24-point power that's the ability to make other people he touches 'carriers'. I doubt we're really going to be worrying about saving points anyway, so another 24 shouldn't be a show-stopper.

 

And yes, I know it's going to be slow...that's the point. It may be a bit too slow, in which case you could add Megascale at the +1/4 level and define a hex as being 10m or 100m instead of 2m, and really cut down on the time necessary. It won't increase the cost much (see previous remark about points anyway) and that makes it incredibly easy to "season to taste" for how long you'd like it to be before the entire planet's converted...one year, a decade, a hundred years, a milennium, whatever.

[ghost-angel]

Re: And in his wake ... desolation (Power Design Help)

 

Excellent ... this is closer to what I envisioned. I don't need the bad guy to spread it to people - so we'll just say if I go with sticky it'll be hex to hex.

 

I can't give Sean Waters rep yet, but thanks for converting time factors, helps a bunch. I'll be using the concept Dr. Anamoly came up with, a Transform to a Hex that gives it the power to transform adjacent hexes. Plus Megascaling to increase planet kill factor.

 

I'm still not completely sure how to handle the reversing and defense of this, but it will probably be a limitation on the bad guy and a required action on the part of the good guy working in tandem to undo...

[Sean Waters]

Re: And in his wake ... desolation (Power Design Help)

 

Excellent ... this is closer to what I envisioned. I don't need the bad guy to spread it to people - so we'll just say if I go with sticky it'll be hex to hex.

 

I can't give Sean Waters rep yet, but thanks for converting time factors, helps a bunch. I'll be using the concept Dr. Anamoly came up with, a Transform to a Hex that gives it the power to transform adjacent hexes. Plus Megascaling to increase planet kill factor.

 

I'm still not completely sure how to handle the reversing and defense of this, but it will probably be a limitation on the bad guy and a required action on the part of the good guy working in tandem to undo...

 

Transform requires some way to undo it - be it 'healing' (not usually for the inanimate) or some other method. That other method could simply be the presence of the good character, which reverses the effect at double speed, or somesuch.

 

Maybe you need to relate the undo to the sfx of the power - is it disease, nanotech, spirit poison? Each suggests possible methods of undoing it (antibodies/emp/magical warding).

 

Have fun

[ghost-angel]

Re: And in his wake ... desolation (Power Design Help)

 

Transform requires some way to undo it - be it 'healing' (not usually for the inanimate) or some other method. That other method could simply be the presence of the good character, which reverses the effect at double speed, or somesuch.

 

Maybe you need to relate the undo to the sfx of the power - is it disease, nanotech, spirit poison? Each suggests possible methods of undoing it (antibodies/emp/magical warding).

 

Have fun

 

It is most likely the mere presence of the Good character. The two characters fates are completely intertwined, while just have the Good Guy show up would be easy enough, I'd like the Good Guy to perform some action (some form of pennance) in order to get the ball rolling .. I think I have to write more of their back story to really fill this out.

 

as for the SFX of the Transform - it's a Curse of some nature.

[Sean Waters]

Re: And in his wake ... desolation (Power Design Help)

 

It is most likely the mere presence of the Good character. The two characters fates are completely intertwined, while just have the Good Guy show up would be easy enough, I'd like the Good Guy to perform some action (some form of pennance) in order to get the ball rolling .. I think I have to write more of their back story to really fill this out.

 

as for the SFX of the Transform - it's a Curse of some nature.

 

Ah: curses often spring from some actual or perceived wrongdoing: perhaps the 'cure' should involve undoing that wrong? Sounds like it is going to be an interesting game

[Grail Quest]

Re: And in his wake ... desolation (Power Design Help)

 

1. If the transform target is 'hexes' then you can't pass it on to people.

 

2. This is going to be slow: 1d6 averages 3 points. One hex of dirt is 16 BODY

 

Don't target a hex--target the planet. Just as when you attack a battleship with a missile, you target the battleship as a whole, not one hex of the battleship.

 

The Earth is 5.9742 × 10^24 kilograms, or only about 86 BODY. If the earth does not have an appropriate defense against the Transform, it'll go pretty quickly--when it shouldn't. This is the issue I was having with large targets versus small attacks in another thread.

[ghost-angel]

Re: And in his wake ... desolation (Power Design Help)

 

Don't target a hex--target the planet. Just as when you attack a battleship with a missile, you target the battleship as a whole, not one hex of the battleship.

 

The Earth is 5.9742 × 10^24 kilograms, or only about 86 BODY. If the earth does not have an appropriate defense against the Transform, it'll go pretty quickly--when it shouldn't. This is the issue I was having with large targets versus small attacks in another thread.

 

If you target a specific point, and intend for a spreading effect then targeting the point works much better.

 

Like a cancer - it doesn't target the entire organism, it targets a cell and spread outwards from that cell towards other cells and eventually overtakes the entire organism, or enough to kill it.

 

And you can target specific points on a battle ship - the bridge, turrets, aft, fore, starboard, port...

[Sean Waters]

Re: And in his wake ... desolation (Power Design Help)

 

Don't target a hex--target the planet. Just as when you attack a battleship with a missile, you target the battleship as a whole, not one hex of the battleship.

 

The Earth is 5.9742 × 10^24 kilograms, or only about 86 BODY. If the earth does not have an appropriate defense against the Transform, it'll go pretty quickly--when it shouldn't. This is the issue I was having with large targets versus small attacks in another thread.

 

Well, interesting philosophical point there. The Earth, in fact, has many different BODY scores, depending on the size of the attack you hit it with. 86 BODY comes from applying the 'blowing a hole through a wall' rule/2x mass is +1BODY - but that only applies if all the damage is done with one attack. If you hit a wall with lots of little attacks, even if the damage totals the same as a big attack - you won't get the same effect.

 

You'd need a transform that did 172 BODY in one pop - a 870 point power.

 

The trouble is you can't assume BODY increases as the power of the mass unless you apply similar reasoning to damage.

[Mister E]

Re: And in his wake ... desolation (Power Design Help)

 

Well, interesting philosophical point there. The Earth, in fact, has many different BODY scores, depending on the size of the attack you hit it with. 86 BODY comes from applying the 'blowing a hole through a wall' rule/2x mass is +1BODY - but that only applies if all the damage is done with one attack. If you hit a wall with lots of little attacks, even if the damage totals the same as a big attack - you won't get the same effect.

 

You'd need a transform that did 172 BODY in one pop - a 870 point power.

 

The trouble is you can't assume BODY increases as the power of the mass unless you apply similar reasoning to damage.

This has never been stated in the HERO books, nor will Steve Long comment on the subject: but yes, there is lots of evidence in the system that would lead people to see Damage as existing in an exponential form similar to BODY.

 

To illustrate my point, every Damage Class effectively deals one point of BODY... every 5 points of STR both equals one Damage Class, and effectively doubles the strength of the Character... and every doubling of a Charater's density or mass increases the Character's STR by 5.

 

Having said that, I honestly don't think the Earth in an object that is targetable normally. It exists on a scale of magnitude outside most Character's effectness, do to in awesome size.

 

I probably have mentioned this already on this Thread, but I suggest giving any attack meant to effect the Earth specifically, the Effects Transdimensional (Planetary Macro-Scale) Advantage.

 

<>

[prestidigitator]

Re: And in his wake ... desolation (Power Design Help)

 

I probably have mentioned this already on this Thread' date=' but I suggest giving any attack meant to effect the Earth specifically, the Effects Transdimensional (Planetary Macro-Scale) Advantage.[/quote']

...and I think MegaScale works best for this, since that was exactly what the Advantage was designed for. It also scales to any size so that you don't have to define an arbitrary dimension at a fixed cost as being the continent or the world or the planetary system or the solar system or the galaxy or....

[Fenixcrest]

Re: And in his wake ... desolation (Power Design Help)

 

...and I think MegaScale works best for this' date=' since that was [i']exactly[/i] what the Advantage was designed for. It also scales to any size so that you don't have to define an arbitrary dimension at a fixed cost as being the continent or the world or the planetary system or the solar system or the galaxy or....

 

Yeah, this is what Megascale is for. There's a monster like this in the Bestiary. It has a planetary destruction beam, a fairly large RKA with Megascale. Basically, it's a matter of making sure that the attack hitting the planet is at least as wide as the moon, or whatever logic you decide is appropriate. Not that it would really matter for a Transform that targets the whole planet- then it would have to be megascaled to "Planet," no matter what.