Removing a Focus with a different power

[Mazeus Xenon]

Let’s say I want to develop a power that allows the character to take a weapon and temporarily absorb it to be used as a claws-like power (or whatever) and gain ALL the bells and whistles of the item. This could be for any item with any set of powers possible. Would that have to be some kind of "naked advantage" to eliminate the focus from the item or would it have to be a transform that heals after a specific amount of time?

 

Basically, let’s say a woodsman has a magical axe that does 2d6 AP damage and by using this power he gets a 2d6 AP "Claw" attack. Transform or what? Just wanted to bounce this idea off of y'all...

 

Of course, if someone else posted this (and I missed it) feel free to tell me where to go...

[ghost-angel]

Re: Removing a Focus with a different power

 

The simpliest way to include all possible powers is a Mimic VPP. I believe an example on how to build one is in 5ER.

[Mazeus Xenon]

Re: Removing a Focus with a different power

 

Oh, duh - of course! Silly me...

 

What do you think would be a good limitation of "Item Unusable While Power is In Effect"? -1/2? -1 Maybe? Or only -1/4? Or would it even BE a limitation beyond a focus? Again, just bouncing this around...

[Supreme Serpent]

Re: Removing a Focus with a different power

 

Probably a transform on the item itself and then the mimic VPP with the limit "only to get abilities of transformed items". Have some way to reverse the effect, at which point the character loses the power and the item pops back out.

 

Don't grab the cursed items...

[Mazeus Xenon]

Re: Removing a Focus with a different power

 

Okay - so a Transform of the item to "nothing" and then link a VPP to it... makes perfect sense to me now!

 

Ya see - THIS is why I ask - for the obvious answers!

[Curufea]

Re: Removing a Focus with a different power

 

Or you could have a dimensional pocket for the item to pop into when the mimic power works - if that is cheaper (ie Extra Dimensional Movement). Or possibly Desolid and Invisible.

 

Actually - scratch that. Transform is better, because you go against the active points, so highly magical items couldn't be absorbed with Transform/Mimic. Whereas the AP of an item doesn't effect EDM (so the item would dissappear, but the character wouldn't be able to mimic it)

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Removing a Focus with a different power

 

Actually, if you are taking other peoples Foci / Weapons as long as they are either universal foci or independent you can use them anyway. If you want to "transmute" them into claws or whatever, you could just buy Variable SFX as a Naked Power Advantage and apply it to the stolen item to change the way it "looks". Axe, Sword, Claws -- all just SFX to describe a way of doing damage as defined by the power construct.

 

 

Absorb Melee Weapon: Variable SFX for up to 60 AP of Melee Weapon (+1/4) (15 Base Points); Reduced END (0 END; + 1/2) (22 Active Points); Variable SFX Limited to Natural Weapons (Claws / Fangs) (-1/4); Real Cost: 18

 

 

Also, weapons are usually OAF, where as claws and fangs are Restrainable. So:

 

Absorbed Weapon: Offset OAF for up to 60 AP of Melee Weapon (30 Base Points); Reduced END (0 END; +1/2) (45 Active Points); Side Effect: Power Acquires Restrainable; All the Time (-1/2), Linked to Absorb Melee Weapon (-1/4); Real Cost: 26

 

Total Cost: 44 character points.

 

You could reduce the cost by adding Extra Time Only To Activate and other Lims reflecting that it takes time and effort to accomplish the absorbtion:

 

Absorb Melee Weapon: Variable SFX for up to 60 AP of Melee Weapon (+1/4) (15 Base Points); Reduced END (0 END; + 1/2) (22 Active Points); Variable SFX Limited to Natural Weapons (Claws / Fangs) (-1/4), Extra Time (Full Phase, Only to Activate; -1/4), 1/2 DCV Concentration (-1/4); Real Cost: 12

 

Absorbed Weapon: Offset OAF for up to 60 AP of Melee Weapon (30 Base Points); Reduced END (0 END; +1/2) (45 Active Points); Side Effect: Power Acquires Restrainable; All the Time (-1/2), Linked to Absorb Melee Weapon (-1/4), Extra Time (Full Phase, Only to Activate; -1/4), 1/2 DCV Concentration (-1/4); Real Cost: 20

 

Total Cost: 32 character points.

 

 

Obviously to absorb more powerful items, you just up the base of the NPA's.

[Mazeus Xenon]

Re: Removing a Focus with a different power

 

I didn't think it was "legal" to buy a naked ability to offset a Limitation (as much weight as that statement carried as I am the GM in the game) That would have to be the most obvious thing... and a lot cheaper - I just couldn't think of how to define it! So simple it should haveb it me... heh... Plus, the VPP option just seemed REALLY expensive for something that should be easier to do... meh...

 

Oh, of course this would be for only universal foci - it has to be usable by the individual! Although any personal item that the individual with power may have would be usable as well...

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Removing a Focus with a different power

 

Actually, its psuedo-legal. There is both a precedent for it (the Cyclops style Eye Beams power in a sidebar in Champions), and it is mathematically sound.

 

If a limitation reduces the cost of a Power by X, then the point equivalent to remove the Limitation is also X. Its the same as if you bought the Limitation off with experience.

 

When you step back and consider things in a meta perspective, it all boils down to pure points. The Power system is a big accounting gimmick that exists to assign point costs to game mechanics.

[Mazeus Xenon]

Re: Removing a Focus with a different power

 

.... mmm... big accounging gimmicks...

 

Seriously, though, thanks - I never could wrap my brain around how to do a "naked power" to compensate for the lack of a limitation! It makes sense, pseudo-legal or not!

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Removing a Focus with a different power

 

np!

[Mazeus Xenon]

Re: Removing a Focus with a different power

 

I've been thinking - would you need the Variable Special Effect? If the "claw" damage-type was basically the same as the weapon being used, would you need to also get that power? That way a "flaming sword" would still do fire damage rather than "claw" damage! Again, just thinking...

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Removing a Focus with a different power

 

I've been thinking - would you need the Variable Special Effect? If the "claw" damage-type was basically the same as the weapon being used' date=' would you need to also get that power? That way a "flaming sword" would still do fire damage rather than "claw" damage! Again, just thinking...[/quote']

C'mon now -- the SFX of the melee weapon is what is being variabled into claws / fangs obviously. Thus the "flaming" sword bit would just variable into "flaming" claws.

[Mazeus Xenon]

Re: Removing a Focus with a different power

 

Okay, okay - no need to bite my head off... sheesh!

 

I do understand where you are coming with it. The way I was thinking it, the removal of the OAF limitation makes its own special effect, hence the "claw". Either could work... of course, we could also go back and forth on our opinions for a week and nothing could get accomplished, too!

 

All in all, I think you way best defines it to ensure the final effects work into the idea behind the power. Not using the Variable Special Effects ends up just making it a cheaper way to do it!

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Removing a Focus with a different power

 

I do understand where you are coming with it. The way I was thinking it, the removal of the OAF limitation makes its own special effect, hence the "claw". Either could work... of course, we could also go back and forth on our opinions for a week and nothing could get accomplished, too!

Your saying that the OBJECT of "sword" (whatever) as defined by FOCUS is being removed by the second ability and thus Variable SFX is not needed.

 

My rejoinder is that Powers with a FOCUS still must have a SFX. A O?F Gun has the SFX of GUN. Even if you removed the Focus Lim, the SFX is still GUN.

 

Thor's Hammer bought as a Focus still has a SFX of "Mystical Hammer"; building it without the Focus it still has the SFX of "Mystical Hammer".

 

And so on.

 

The difference is that the FOCUS based version can be taken away or targetted / damaged and the not FOCUS based version cannot.

 

The difference between both examples is not SFX based. Removal of the FOCUS did not alter the SFX.

[Mazeus Xenon]

Re: Removing a Focus with a different power

 

Right... that's what I said... I think...

 

Eh, no matter - thanks for all the help!

[Cantriped]

Re: Removing a Focus with a different power

 

I wonder, There are a lot of "Powers" that exist as optional rules in several suplements, but that arn't listed as True powers, why not?

Naked Power Advantages are a prime example, 5e states that its a Special power, and there are rules for it, and examples, but it was crammed into a half a paragraph rather then given an actual power entry.

You also have the "create item" power of Fantasy hero, presented as an optional Magic Item creation rule. but really, its just a variant on the Summon, replacing the Loyalty factor with automatic Extra Time and Long Term EnD cost standard... Maybe they'll be turned into real powers for the next revision... Ok musing over.

 

In anycase I like the idea of Naked Un-Limitations. Just assign the "Advantage" a value inversly porportionate to the limitation it removes. That would be a good way to handle d20 style Metamagic feats, or the ability to freely exchange a a powers limitations with a different set.

 

I had a character idea which one of his powers was that a single weapon he designated essentially Lost is Foci limitation. you could still take it away, sunder it, etc. but it alwasy came back to him the moment he needed it.