Religion Hero??

[Kehrer]

IT seems like I have seen several RPG's over the past 2 years that were Role Playing with a religious theme. I am not sure that they were done very successfully as they flopped. I do, however, think there is a market for GOOD biblical RPG games...not necessarily placed in biblical times. Any thoughts??

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Religion Hero??

 

Well, I have a lot of respect for Testament by Scott Bennie. IMHO it's well researched, historically and culturally accurate, and respectful of matters of real-world faith within a gaming context. If you're not familiar with it you can read about it on this webpage from the site of the publisher, Green Ronin Publishing:

http://www.greenronin.com/catalog/grr1019

 

Scott Bennie also happens to be one of Hero Games's top freelance writers, and recently shared his own rather detailed thoughts on translating the D20 Testament into HERO terms with us here on the discussion boards:

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?p=915695

[Kehrer]

Re: Religion Hero??

 

Hmm, I don't remember Testament, but will look into it. Thanks for the info.

 

 

Well' date=' I have a lot of respect for [i']Testament[/i] by Scott Bennie. IMHO it's well researched, historically and culturally accurate, and respectful of matters of real-world faith within a gaming context. If you're not familiar with it you can read about it on this webpage from the site of the publisher, Green Ronin Publishing:

http://www.greenronin.com/catalog/grr1019

 

Scott Bennie also happens to be one of Hero Games's top freelance writers, and recently shared his own rather detailed thoughts on translating the D20 Testament into HERO terms with us here on the discussion boards:

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?p=915695

[TheRavenIs]

Re: Religion Hero??

 

Very intresting. I wonder just how it would feel. I did play in the late 80's in a DnD with a Christian background. It was fun and I did like it alot. It was a home-run idea of an friend of mine.

[Curufea]

Re: Religion Hero??

 

It would be difficult, to say the least, to sell a religious roleplaying game - given the amount of bad press, and downright hate that roleplaying has taken from religious groups.

 

It would automatically start with levels of alienation inherent - there would be a very tiny market of what is already a small market (roleplaying games are nowhere near as popular as other kinds of games or books).

[gojira]

Re: Religion Hero??

 

I think Hero would work well with a theme like In Nomine. The flexibility of character chreation would be a big boon to such a role playing game.

 

I think Steve Jackson Games has the license tied up, but a game like In Nomine shouldn't be hard to do.

 

Then there's also a religious cross-over like Babalyon 5. Science Fiction plus a war of good and evil. What more could you want?

[Curufea]

Re: Religion Hero??

 

I don't actually see the Good vs Evil war in Babylon 5. There was a Chaos vs Order war, yes - and both sides were got rid of. But neither side was "Good"

[gojira]

Re: Religion Hero??

 

I don't actually see the Good vs Evil war in Babylon 5. There was a Chaos vs Order war' date=' yes - and both sides were got rid of. But neither side was "Good"[/quote']

 

Oh. Well, I didn't watch the show religiously (a pun!) like some did. The first season, when Kosh did his angel stunt, I assumed it would go good vs. evil with the shadows being evil and all. I could even assert that good vs. evil is the same as order vs. chaos, philosophically speaking. But you probably know more about the direction the show actually took.

[Curufea]

Re: Religion Hero??

 

It turned out that both sides were manipulative. It just that one portrayed itself with 'good' imagery and the other side didn't.

[Kehrer]

Re: Religion Hero??

 

With the success of LOTR, Chronicles of Narnia, Passion of Christ, the Left Behind series, etc...there seems to be a growing market.

[Curufea]

Re: Religion Hero??

 

Just wait until a suicide is found to have once spent half an hour looking at the cover of a roleplaying book during a slow news week.

[Guest daeudi_454]

Re: Religion Hero??

 

With Biblical RPGs, you only have time periods:

Old Testament: Best suited for RPGs, very well done by Green Ronin.

New Testament: bad for RPGs, no one wants to play someone hiding, or fed to the lions.

Holy Roman Empire: maybe. Soldiers and priests fighting against the mythoi of barbarians? Maybe...

Medieval: Been there, done that. The religious aspect? The Crusades? no one wants to rehash that.

Modern: You know it, you live it. The problem? Modern Christianity. The RCC doesn't accept exorcism anymore. Plus the whole concept of violence seems to be verboten.

 

An RPG that includes all the major religions, and treats them equally? Will never happen.

A guaranteed flop, because no one would be happy. Even if you just used Jewish, Christian, and Islamic beliefs (all "people of the book") it would be a nightmare to write up, and even more difficult to sell.

========================

A side note: I would just love it if RPGs could be welcomed by places like Berean or Romar- it would expand the hobby. But based on the weak, lame, pathetic, (I'll stop, there are far too many adjectives for them) comic books I have seen in those stores, the only type of RPG that would be sold there is: one no one would want to play.

 

The only possible exception, and the only RPG I could see selling well, is Narnia. It has plenty of the elements gamers like, with a religious undertone that is deep and present, but not overbearing. The licensing might be a bear though.

>

[Dauntless]

Re: Religion Hero??

 

Actually, I think a historic based religious based RPG would be a cool idea. Problem is, no one would want to play it. It will incense or at least alienate many Christians because it would make them question many theological issues they take for granted.

 

Imagine this for a roleplaying exercise. God, commands your forces (the Israelites) to massacre all the Sihonites. Every last man, woman, child, old man and oxen. Why? Because Yahweh told you to do it. Would you be able to do it (and yes, this isn't just a modern day way of thinking....conscience has been with man since the dawn of our consciousness). And yes, Yahweh did order on several occasions the massacre of several peoples (look at Numbers or Samuel).

 

Roleplaying exercise #2. The year is 325AD and the Synod at Nicea has convened, declaring Arianism, or the belief that Jesus is not of the same divine nature as God as heretical. You are ordered to sniff out any Arians and force them to denounce their belief...or to perish.

 

Roleplaying exercise #3. You meet a man who rescues you from certain death. While tending to your wounds, you notice in his belongings the scripture, The Gospel of Thomas...a known Gnostic teaching declared heretical. The man saved your life...what do you do?

 

Roleplaying exercise #4. Your king orders you and your men to attack his enemy in another province and to kill all of them, including the priest who has been agitating the other lord to move against your own lord. Where does your allegiance lie...to your lord and liege, or to your faith?

 

And these are but a few of the hundreds of scenarios I could think of. I didn't even touch anything about the Crusades or the Reformation which is ripe for ideas. How about any of the wars fought during this time period, like the English Civil War?

 

But it will not only make irate those who will not appreciate putting Christianity under a new light, it will also fail to attract those who aren't biased towards religion one way or the other. Most people are very wary of anything smelling of religion, because they are afraid of the hard sell.

 

I personally would like to see not just Christian themes covered, but anything with a religious overtone ala Battlestar Galactica. Religion is a very sticky topic though right now and there's definitely a Cold War being waged in this country over religious themes. So a game about religious themes and history could either be really hot, or it could blow up. I personally feel that we need to expose people to many religious themes so that they are exposed to more than just one dogmatic viewpoint (or none at all) precisely because of this Cold War that's going on. But like I said, it's a super-sensitive issue right now...so either way, you'd have to be careful

[Kehrer]

Re: Religion Hero??

 

I working on some ideas that would not involve "magic" stuff that might put off Christians or link it to other games that have been down cast in the past. But you are right, it is only going to market to some..but that's the way it is with every game. Some games are tailored to specific audiences. The trick is to combine elements that "might" attract people outside that target audience. Everyone will not be happy with it, not everyone will hate it.

Again this is all in the "early" stages of development...even brainstorming area. Input on this thread has definitely been helpful.

[Springald Jack]

Re: Religion Hero??

 

Modern: You know it, you live it. The problem? Modern Christianity. The RCC doesn't accept exorcism anymore.

 

Actually That's not true it's just the church believes that cases of genuine possesion (and therefore the need for excorcism) is very very rare.

 

And in fact there have been quite a few rpgs dealing with religous themes.

Pendragon

In Nomine

GURPS in sourcebooks like Religion and Cabal and Fantasy

Demon:the Fallen

Alternity in the Dark•Matter Setting

Nobilis

 

I just got through with a game where the PCs were Demon Hunters working for the RCC in the year 2005. Obviously there were some differences from the real world .

[Guest daeudi_454]

Re: Religion Hero??

 

Actually That's not true it's just the church believes that cases of genuine possesion (and therefore the need for excorcism) is very very rare.

 

And in fact there have been quite a few rpgs dealing with religous themes.

Pendragon

In Nomine

GURPS in sourcebooks like Religion and Cabal and Fantasy

Demon:the Fallen

Alternity in the Dark•Matter Setting

Nobilis

 

I just got through with a game where the PCs were Demon Hunters working for the RCC in the year 2005. Obviously there were some differences from the real world .

Well, needless to say, the RCC gives the impression that it doesn't believe in direct action by supernatural forces for either side being remotely common.

 

In Nomine: It's a twisted worldview, even if it wasn't angels and demons.

GURPS: it presents a decnt sourcebook, as gurps always does, but little in the way of a campaign setting. Cabal is more horror than religion.

Demon:tF: Its white wolf. by definition, crap. I have read it and the player's manual. The character's are little more than vampires with bigger power.

Alternity... I haven't checked any of this system... I gathered it was kinda universal, so I stuck w/Hero.

Pendragon & Nobilis: I'll have to check it out.

[Curufea]

Re: Religion Hero??

 

From what I hear of Nobilis - it's very pretty, but the rules are abstracted to such an extent you don't need a rulebook.

[Lamrok]

Re: Religion Hero??

 

Don't forget DragonRaid, if you want to go hard core:

 

(from the DragonRaid site)

"DragonRaid is an exciting experience in adventure simulation. More than just a game, it offers hours of enjoyment while teaching participants to resist sin, counter deceptive arguments, memorize Scripture, and build moral and spiritual character. The DragonRaid system encompasses many different adventures. On the mythical world of EdenAgain, players meet challenges that parallel real life. The imagined dangers compel them to grapple with conflicting values, discover how faith in Christ can shape behavior, and reflect on what is really worth living and dying for."

 

I actually tried it once or twice. In order to perform the equivalent of casting spells, you had to recite Bible verses from memory.

[Curufea]

Re: Religion Hero??

 

Hmmm - where is that rolling eyes smiley ;-p

[Guest daeudi_454]

Re: Religion Hero??

 

Don't forget DragonRaid, if you want to go hard core:

A side note: I would just love it if RPGs could be welcomed by places like Berean or Romar- it would expand the hobby. But based on the weak' date=' lame, pathetic, (I'll stop, there are far too many adjectives for them) comic books I have seen in those stores, the only type of RPG that would be sold there is: [b']one no one would want to play[/b].

Sorry, it sounds as bad as the aforementioned comic books. Memorizing scripture for a game is one thing, what you described is another.

[Lamrok]

Re: Religion Hero??

 

Sorry' date=' it sounds as bad as the aforementioned comic books.[/quote']

 

You are right. It is just as bad. But, people buy those comics, and this game has been around in some form for twenty years. There's no accounting for taste.

 

Check out the website (http://www.dragonraid.net). It is quite entertaining.

 

"For example, in the first adventure (an easy-to-play introduction to the game system) the players meet a troll who wants to give them "gifts" which are really temptations to sin. The three temptations put before the players are gawking at bodies on the beach, buying all the clothes they could ever desire, and going to a music concert where there will be plenty of "pleasure potions" (drugs). The troll asks each person which of the three "gifts" they would like to have"

[Zeropoint]

Re: Religion Hero??

 

"For example, in the first adventure (an easy-to-play introduction to the game system) the players meet a troll who wants to give them "gifts" which are really temptations to sin. The three temptations put before the players are gawking at bodies on the beach, buying all the clothes they could ever desire, and going to a music concert where there will be plenty of "pleasure potions" (drugs). The troll asks each person which of the three "gifts" they would like to have"

 

Well, it looks like Mephistopheles doesn't have to worry about the competition any time soon.

[Mentor]

Re: Religion Hero??

 

I still think that religion is more likely to succeed as an individual campaign or scenario design theme rather than a complete game or sub genre. Religion could reasonably be the center focus of Champions, Dark Champions, fantasy Hero, Pulp Hero or Star hero with equal appropriateness. The GM design determines all.

[Springald Jack]

Re: Religion Hero??

 

Demon:tF: Its white wolf. by definition, crap. I have read it and the player's manual. The character's are little more than vampires with bigger power.

 

I'll have to admit I never read Demon but both the original Mage and Cangeling I loved and the Aeon Continuum is a gorgeous setting.

 

WW is not, by definition, crap.

 

Religion is often a theme in my games. Most of my games are set in something that resembles the modern world. None of my players has ever been offended.

 

HELL In Nomine (which I love) never generated a lot of negative flack.

 

The facto of the matter is our little hobby is no longer in the eye of those who attacked its evil, mostly because it no longer has any chance of becoming mainstream.

[Black Rose]

Re: Religion Hero??

 

Demon:tF: Its white wolf. by definition' date=' crap. I have read it and the player's manual. The character's are little more than vampires with bigger power.[/quote']

I dunno. One of the things I think WW does best is their nifty settings; I really liked the background for Demon, at least until it got to now. Oh, don't get me wrong, I don't mean all of their setting books. I mean the first book in a line. After that it almost always slides further down with each book. Sometimes a single book will impress me greatly, but then it's always back to the "our NPCs r0xx0r! w00t!"