The Flood: Part II - Stealing Skills

[Thia Halmades]

So you've possessed your host, and have access to all the host skills. What's the by-the-book mechanic for such a thing?

[Doug Limmer]

Re: The Flood: Part II - Stealing Skills

 

"By the book"?

 

1.) Buy all the skills (and probably a bunch of skill levels) with a "only if the host has these skills" limitation.

 

2.) I think Mind Control allows you to force your host to use its skills.

 

It also probably depends how you're modeling the possession.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: The Flood: Part II - Stealing Skills

 

The "possession" is an SFX - the Flood is being built as a Multiform, each "form" it takes has built in limits (only as powerful as the host, for example). So they get a bunch of 10 point levels, "only for emulating host skills?" That seems excessive. It'll work, but it's excessive. Well, no.

 

Query: If I give ALL FLOOD 10 Overall Levels, "only to use targets skills" would that cover it? It'd be a little NUTS, but would it cover it? Could I also install a second limitation (for those who've been doing this longer), "Only up to host's knowledge level, (-1/2)" - in other words, I may have 10 Overall Levels, but YOU only have 4 Ranks in Concealment, so I can only use 4 Ranks of Concealment.

 

Or is there a cleaner way to do it?

[Manic Typist]

Re: The Flood: Part II - Stealing Skills

 

VPP, with Lims.

 

However, I like your Overall Skill Levels idea.

 

Perhaps you should look at your example "EveryMarine" skills, and see how the Flood would be once they've infected one of them.

 

Also, keep in mind, the flood weren't always the best shots. Sometimes they were vicious, and sometimes they were hilarious.

[David Johnston]

Re: The Flood: Part II - Stealing Skills

 

So you've possessed your host' date=' and have access to all the host skills. What's the by-the-book mechanic for such a thing?[/quote']

 

If you use the Summoning mechanic then the Summoned creature can have the skills of the consumed material component of the summoning if you want.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: The Flood: Part II - Stealing Skills

 

"Summon" was the other option instead of "multiform," where the 'summon' itself is an SFX of killing their human target. I'll check the summon rules, thanks David.

[OddHat]

Re: The Flood: Part II - Stealing Skills

 

Why not just use a Multiform VPP? Then they can turn into any Host + Skills and Perks, with a few points left over to hang onto their old selves. No new mechanics needed.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: The Flood: Part II - Stealing Skills

 

Deh... what?

 

Sorry, Oddhat. Can you post a quick example so I can see what you mean on paper?

[OddHat]

Re: The Flood: Part II - Stealing Skills

 

Deh... what?

 

Sorry, Oddhat. Can you post a quick example so I can see what you mean on paper?

 

Sure:

 

175 Mimicry: Variable Power Pool, 100 base + 75 control cost, Cosmic (+2) (250 Active Points); Limited Class Of Powers Available Very Limited (Only for Multiform; -1)

0 1) Victim's Form, up to 450 points, plus my own skills: Multiform (500 Character Points in the most expensive form) (100 Active Points) Real Cost: 100 0

 

Just further limit the pool control cost to your taste. Must touch victim, drop Cosmic, that sort of thing. It's the easiest way to do characters like Rogue, Amazo, Mimic, etc. This particular version can take any form at all, but you can further limit it down to just the victims form plus Virus and Combat forms. The form with the pool is the base form.

[Manic Typist]

Re: The Flood: Part II - Stealing Skills

 

Um... repped?

 

Edit: when I can.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: The Flood: Part II - Stealing Skills

 

Yes, I get what you're saying (or in reply to MT, I get what he, Oddhat is saying) but I haven't yoinked about with Multiform yet, so I'll have to put together ... what, a base set of forms and then sort of hold my breath on the skill thing and... how the heck does that work?

 

Stupid advanced HERO material. Ah, well, this is why I took the project on in the first place. Yeargh. I mean, I can build the Combat Form all day - I can build a Human & an Elite version under that model, as well as a new Balloon/Infector version. Good times. I can do that. Do I list the skills at the time? Do I sort of hold back and only put them in as necessary? What's the dilly-o? Medic!

 

Intoxicated nurse!

[OddHat]

Re: The Flood: Part II - Stealing Skills

 

Yes, I get what you're saying (or in reply to MT, I get what he, Oddhat is saying) but I haven't yoinked about with Multiform yet, so I'll have to put together ... what, a base set of forms and then sort of hold my breath on the skill thing and... how the heck does that work?

 

Stupid advanced HERO material. Ah, well, this is why I took the project on in the first place. Yeargh. I mean, I can build the Combat Form all day - I can build a Human & an Elite version under that model, as well as a new Balloon/Infector version. Good times. I can do that. Do I list the skills at the time? Do I sort of hold back and only put them in as necessary? What's the dilly-o? Medic!

 

Intoxicated nurse!

 

Well, you don't need to hold your breath, exactly.

 

1) Pick the skills, perks, and characteristics that always remain in every form. In the example I gave, there's 50 points per form set aside for that, enough for about INT and EGO 15, a good contact or two, a nice mix of KS, etc.

 

2) The Multiform is part of a VPP instead of a fixed list. That means you have effectvely as many different forms as you need within the limits of the pool. The multiform allows for 450 point forms. If the NPC or PC the Flood is duplicating is up to 400 points, just drop your 50 point "this is me" package on top of the sheet. If the victim is more than 450 points, cut some stuff. If Stats or Skills overlap, the new form only needs to buy them once.

 

3) Technically you'll need to switch back to the base form to change again. As GM, you can wave this requirement,

[Thia Halmades]

Re: The Flood: Part II - Stealing Skills

 

Okay. So the Flood have no skills, but we'll assume that the 'infection form' has some stats, and some 'creature' type skills - concealment, CSLs, and its Neuro-Suppress ability (Suppress STUN, Extra Time, etc. & so forth). The STUN Suppression is pretty much total, and will have enough points to be nigh unstoppable. They'll also get their "pop" explosion (which is a 1 pip RKA) and a few other things. But the infection form itself is out to feed, so its running on instinct.

 

But that isn't the "base" form, because the most expensive form must be the base form, yeah? So I need to assemble the three main forms (Carrier, Combat Human, Combat Elite) and then extract from that which is the most expensive, and then build the multi-form around it, yes? And then, because its a Multiform VPP, I can simply 'add' any skills as required (as you say, set aside a certain number of points for convenience sake, or as MT suggested, wisely I might add, make sure they have enough points for the Marine Everyman skills) then whenever they assume a form, allot the points accordingly, after putting down the template and backing out the "infection" form itself?

 

Am I grasping this correctly?

[OddHat]

Re: The Flood: Part II - Stealing Skills

 

Okay. So the Flood have no skills, but we'll assume that the 'infection form' has some stats, and some 'creature' type skills - concealment, CSLs, and its Neuro-Suppress ability (Suppress STUN, Extra Time, etc. & so forth). The STUN Suppression is pretty much total, and will have enough points to be nigh unstoppable. They'll also get their "pop" explosion (which is a 1 pip RKA) and a few other things. But the infection form itself is out to feed, so its running on instinct.

 

But that isn't the "base" form, because the most expensive form must be the base form, yeah? So I need to assemble the three main forms (Carrier, Combat Human, Combat Elite) and then extract from that which is the most expensive, and then build the multi-form around it, yes? And then, because its a Multiform VPP, I can simply 'add' any skills as required (as you say, set aside a certain number of points for convenience sake, or as MT suggested, wisely I might add, make sure they have enough points for the Marine Everyman skills) then whenever they assume a form, allot the points accordingly, after putting down the template and backing out the "infection" form itself?

 

Am I grasping this correctly?

 

5thER, p.211. The "True Form" does not have to be the most expensive form. That said, the Multiform VPP will be fairly expensive.

 

Otherwise, the above looks pretty much right.

 

There is a slight hand wave for the ability to switch forms without going back to the base form; this is normally free with Multiform, but with a Multiform VPP it is arguably abusive. That is why I suggest keeping the VPP "Cosmic", paying a few extra points to justify the extra utility.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: The Flood: Part II - Stealing Skills

 

Good news - it doesn't get to switch. Once an Infection Form has possessed a host body and changed it, the change is set, and the infection form is 'driving' it much like a vehicle. So there's no need to handwave it, as the infection form is pretty much tied up in the new Combat Form, unless it gets destroyed, thus forcing a reversion to 'base' form.

[Markdoc]

Re: The Flood: Part II - Stealing Skills

 

My suggestion is rather than putting the multiform in the VPP, simply give the combat multiform a VPP defined as "targets skills and capabilities (limited set of powers, only changes under specific circumstances). The VPP is simply there for skills and stats: they require GM's permission to put into frameworks, but in this case, I don't see a problem

 

And it's a solution which has been used in published characters - for example skilsofts, for cyberpunk characters.

 

That'd reduce the cost significantly and get around the problem that no amount of skill levels would give you much competence with a skill you don't have in the first place.

 

cheers, Mark