The Great Shield Debate

[Osprey]

Thanks to Emerged's great page on the changes (http://theemerged.blogspot.com/HERO425.htm). I now know just barely enough about this topic to sound off.

 

I applies particularly to a character that's been in my campaign(s) for 20 years now (3rd Ed. guys).

 

Dayglow

Has a Dimensional flux feild around her body.

Most things that touch her naked skin teleport away. (Yes, even untreated clothing).

 

This was first done something like so:

Teleport 10", Usable on Others (+1/2), Shield (+1/2), always ON (-1/4).

 

Lots of other slots in her EC are based on this effect.

(Like Damage Reduction)

The whole Power structure fails without it.

 

I don't have her sheet now, so that's a knee jerk description with no point totals.

 

What I wonder now is..

 

How would someone do this with Fred!!!!

Is it Possible!!!?????

[Lord Liaden]

Well, the construct would be more expensive now because Damage Shield requires Continuous, and you would have to buy your Usable on Others as an Attack, but otherwise I don't see why it couldn't work the same way. It would definitely be a "GM's permission" Power, though. I'm curious, what's the defense against it? You say that the character can have "treated" clothing that doesn't teleport away; does her clothing also work to neutralize her power's effect so that she can walk on normal surfaces, touch people, etc.?

[Osprey]

I realize about "As an attack" would be necessary (I've been using it in my campaigns since Almanac 1). I am still confused about requiring continuous, I always thought it was included (just as "No Range" is included).

 

I've almost always used her as an NPC when I am GM.

The power concept itself seems to be a game disrupter if not handled with gloves.

The defense would be Teleport or Hardened defenses or clothes specially treated (as hers are) or being more massive than the teleport allows.

[TheEmerged]

Originally posted by Osprey

I realize about "As an attack" would be necessary (I've been using it in my campaigns since Almanac 1). I am still confused about requiring continuous, I always thought it was included (just as "No Range" is included).

 

I've almost always used her as an NPC when I am GM.

The power concept itself seems to be a game disrupter if not handled with gloves.

The defense would be Teleport or Hardened defenses or clothes specially treated (as hers are) or being more massive than the teleport allows.

 

Basically -- for "As an attack" to be a necessary addition to Damage Shield, she'd have to be able to do this willingingly against an opponent she hasn't grabbed. See, anyone she grabs will be affected by default. But if you want her to be able to walk up to someone, touch them, and send them to another dimension -- you're gonna need the advantage.

 

So as I understand your specific case, yeah you'll need to take it.

 

There are a couple of other things the power as your describing it would need. First, you'd need to take Usable On Others at the "usable as attack" level, which is a +1 advantage. As someone else noted, you'll need to buy Continuous (+1 advantage) because Teleportation is not a constant power. This is a change -- perhaps the least popular -- in 5th Edition.

 

You'll also need to purchase the power as 0 END and Persistent (+1 advantage) in order to *qualify* for taking Always On (-1/2, not -1/4 unless as GM you feel it isn't limiting enough). Frankly, if you're going to buy it Always On you really should go ahead and tack the new Inherrent option on as well (+1/4).

 

So the final writeup will look something like this.

Teleport 10" (20 base points). Usable On Others, As attack (+1), Continuous/Damage Shield (+1 1/2), Attack option on Damage Shield (+1/4), 0 END Persistent (+1), Inherent (+1/4) -- 100 Active Points. Always On (-1/2). 66.5 Real Points.

[Osprey]

So the final writeup will look something like this.

Teleport 10" (20 base points). Usable On Others, As attack (+1), Continuous/Damage Shield (+1 1/2), Attack option on Damage Shield (+1/4), 0 END Persistent (+1), Inherent (+1/4) -- 100 Active Points. Always On (-1/2). 66.5 Real Points.

 

Thanks, Emerged.

 

I originally had the intentional "Grab and Port" in another slot, but this version seems to negate the need for it.

 

Seriously, why require a purchase of "Continuous" but not "No Range"?

These are the things that together MAKE a Damage Shield.

 

Continuous (+1), No Range (-1/2) = Damage Shield (+1/2)

[Lord Liaden]

Osprey, if you were to do a search of the boards for Damage Shield, you would find many, MANY opinions expressed about the new construction rules. Most people are unhappy with it and have proposed "fixes"; your proposal is a popular one which I favor myself. However, it doesn't look like the ruling will be changed, so if you want your construct to be official this is how it will have to be done.

[TheEmerged]

Originally posted by Osprey

Thanks, Emerged.

 

I originally had the intentional "Grab and Port" in another slot, but this version seems to negate the need for it.

 

Seriously, why require a purchase of "Continuous" but not "No Range"?

These are the things that together MAKE a Damage Shield.

 

Continuous (+1), No Range (-1/2) = Damage Shield (+1/2)

 

Ask Steve Long, not me I'm just reporting the rules as they officially exist.

 

PERSONALLY, I adopted a "compromise" version of having Damage Shield at +1, no continuous required, and I have to admit it's much closer to the balance I wanted (+1/2 is a little too cheap in my experience).

[Agent X]

Originally posted by TheEmerged

Ask Steve Long, not me I'm just reporting the rules as they officially exist.

 

PERSONALLY, I adopted a "compromise" version of having Damage Shield at +1, no continuous required, and I have to admit it's much closer to the balance I wanted (+1/2 is a little too cheap in my experience).

In my 4th edition experiences, I never saw someone take advantage of the damage shield's cost in the way that is implied on the boards. What were people doing?

[JmOz]

My personal fix for this I call the AF Fix.

 

Essentialy you do not need continous, if you are putting it on a normal attack (Normal damage) it costs +1/2, if you put it on a "weird" power construnct (A NND, A a adjustment power, etc...) then there is a +1 modifier as per AF. I have expanded "Basic Attack" to include Ego Blast, but no other mental power (The reason for this is that it will still cause damage and having to "touch" mentaly cuts the versitility

[TheEmerged]

Originally posted by Agent X

In my 4th edition experiences, I never saw someone take advantage of the damage shield's cost in the way that is implied on the boards. What were people doing?

 

A biggie, at least in my experience, was the "Kid Napper" trick for bricks designed to grab: Suppress STR, Damage Shield, 0 END. Same effective cost as Drain, no chance of a miss (assuming the grab was successful), and makes grabs far tougher to escape. Note that this one is *still legal* under 5th Edition, except for a statement about Suppresses that cost 0 END "should have another way out". I named it after a character in the second "villain" campaign I ever ran, who stacked this with a Flash Damage Shield, and a STUN Drain damage shield -- think "chloroform rag". It proved to be more than a little too effective for its cost, and in some ways gave a "back door" multiple power attack in campaigns MPA's weren't allowed in.

 

The other one is the CounterPunch damage shield (EB, damage shield, "requires a to hit roll, subject to same restrictions as an attack"). In some campaigns, this served as a devastating anti-brick trick. I gave this to my Jaguar rewrite under 4th Edition (as HKA) and the results were sometimes terrifying to behold.