Power as Def

[Guest TheUnknown]

I had an ideal of a drain or transfer that was AVLD (defence active power/tat points/5) as the def. the sfx is that more powerful the effect the harder it is to affect it.

 

Example 4d6 transfer/Drain STR target has a 60 STR thus he would have a 12 def 60 STR/5 = 12

 

What do you think of the effect.

 

Parasite in DC seems to be this way to me more so than it being againts power def because some people who wouldnt have power def by concept in my opinion are not affected as greatly as others with simular powers but at a lower scale.

[Frenchman]

Re: Power as Def

 

That is an interesting idea with even more interesting implications...the more you drain, the more you drain! As in, each drain reduces the amount of defense available against the next attack.

I'd say that that counts as a "common" defense when compared to power defense (everyone has it), and say it should be the +3/4 level of AVLD.

The only drawback I see is the obvious one: a power of a certain strength cannot be affected at all (for 4d6 this is a power of 24*5=120 AP, but even a 60 AP power will require an above-average roll to get anything through)

If you want to make sure that you can always do something, you can add Penetrating to it.

[Guest TheUnknown]

Re: Power as Def

 

That is an interesting idea with even more interesting implications...the more you drain' date=' [i']the more you drain![/i] As in, each drain reduces the amount of defense available against the next attack.

I'd say that that counts as a "common" defense when compared to power defense (everyone has it), and say it should be the +3/4 level of AVLD.

The only drawback I see is the obvious one: a power of a certain strength cannot be affected at all (for 4d6 this is a power of 24*5=120 AP, but even a 60 AP power will require an above-average roll to get anything through)

If you want to make sure that you can always do something, you can add Penetrating to it.

 

Point well taken I never considered the +3/4 because everyone does have the def! and penetrating well thats a good addition!

[MitchellS]

Re: Power as Def

 

I'm not much into making a power weaker by giving it an advantage. You make something weaker by giving it a limitation. If your 4d6 drain doesn't work as well as my 4d6 drain due to yours giving characteristic defense then yours should have a limitation on it.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Power as Def

 

I would say sure, but then if you're draining the item that provides the defense, the Drain effect is halved (under the Draining defenses rule).

[Dust Raven]

Re: Power as Def

 

I would say sure' date=' but then if you're draining the item that provides the defense, the Drain effect is halved (under the Draining defenses rule).[/quote']

If this was done, I'd rule the calculated defense is effectively a Figured Characteristic, and does not reduce when the main Characteristic/Power is Drained. So if you've got a 60 STR/12 STR Defense, and someone hits you with a 22 point Drain STR, you lose 10 points of STR after Def and end up with a 50 STR/12 STR Defense.

 

As an overall rule change, I don't like it. As a Modifier to a Power, I'd be willing to write it off as a -1/2 to +1/2 depending on how common Power Defense is, and whether or not it continues to apply in addition to the defense this Modifiers provides. If it replaces Power Defense and Power Defense is relatively common, then this is an advantage because no one can buy up the Def. If it adds to Power Defense, it's a Limitation regardless of how common Power Defense because it always provides added protection for the target.

[Frenchman]

Re: Power as Def

 

I'm not much into making a power weaker by giving it an advantage. You make something weaker by giving it a limitation. If your 4d6 drain doesn't work as well as my 4d6 drain due to yours giving characteristic defense then yours should have a limitation on it.

 

I have to agree, and I rarely use AVLD as a result, since most of the time I'm doing something like Mental Power vs. Flash Defense or Drain vs. Natural ED - in heroic games where mental and power def are almost unheard of, but Flash defense occurs at least once in almost every group of characters.

[Guest TheUnknown]

Re: Power as Def

 

If this was done, I'd rule the calculated defense is effectively a Figured Characteristic, and does not reduce when the main Characteristic/Power is Drained. So if you've got a 60 STR/12 STR Defense, and someone hits you with a 22 point Drain STR, you lose 10 points of STR after Def and end up with a 50 STR/12 STR Defense.

 

As an overall rule change, I don't like it. As a Modifier to a Power, I'd be willing to write it off as a -1/2 to +1/2 depending on how common Power Defense is, and whether or not it continues to apply in addition to the defense this Modifiers provides. If it replaces Power Defense and Power Defense is relatively common, then this is an advantage because no one can buy up the Def. If it adds to Power Defense, it's a Limitation regardless of how common Power Defense because it always provides added protection for the target.

 

I understand you reasoning but if you bought the ability as a normal drain to all power simo (+2) under a sfx ( like all meta powers and super human characteristics) then the def would be lowered to by the very attack thats draining it making it easier to drain by rules and mechanics. So why change the rules just because it's an avld? Which is an advantage not a limitation.

 

I understand it very well and agree if all your drain affects is one effect and that effect does not include the Def.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Power as Def

 

This seems like way too much work to do something that the system doesn't do naturally. Like any mechanic, hey, if you want to make it work, by all means, but it's excessively complex.

[Frenchman]

Re: Power as Def

 

So why change the rules just because it's an avld? Which is an advantage not a limitation.

Because in many cases, AVLD is disadvantageous. There are times when it is not an advantage. If what TheUnknown is suggesting is that X/5 applies as a defense in addition to power defense, then it is quite clearly a limitation in all games. In games where power defense is uncommon (or anything less than universal) is is arguably a limitation even if it replaces power defense, since it is more common (100% of potential targets have the defense).

I would say that draining a stat/power should reduce its defense against future drains, based on the way I conceptualize the sFX uses of this mechanic.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Power as Def

 

I understand you reasoning but if you bought the ability as a normal drain to all power simo (+2) under a sfx ( like all meta powers and super human characteristics) then the def would be lowered to by the very attack thats draining it making it easier to drain by rules and mechanics. So why change the rules just because it's an avld? Which is an advantage not a limitation.

 

I understand it very well and agree if all your drain affects is one effect and that effect does not include the Def.

 

Oh absolutely. I was only referring to the use of this option against a single Power, rather than absolutely everything. If it was everything, then it's always going to affect everything, including any figured defenses (unless of course the GM determines this isn't a figured characteristic, but a natural element of the Power being Drained in addition to any Power Defense).