Parasite/Rogue Effect

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Parasite/Rogue Effect

 

I Apologize if my statement offended you, it truly was not my intension and hope you accept without hard feelings!

 

it was Not meant to insult you just acknowledging there's a barrier between communication either in my discription or in you understanding!

 

Upshot: Don't accuse people of not being bright enough to 'crasp' something if your opening thesis can't be supported by the rules. My point here is that I did understand what you were saying - and what you were saying was not sound mechanically (as has been proven by our brethren here in this thread). There have been plenty of nice, normal rules I didn't get first time out - they weren't too hard, they just didn't click.

 

I only get offended at the idea of being accused of not being swift enough when it seems like a last ditch defense when the original plan got shot down. Please choose your language more carefully in the future. That is all.

[Guest TheUnknown]

Re: Parasite/Rogue Effect

 

Ah' date=' no. Beware of [i']ad hominem[/i] and other generally fallacious arguments, please.

 

The idea behind the published power build was, from what little I'm reading here, a Permanent Mind Switch. Your mind comes into my body; I become you. Presumably, my mental powers come with me, while your non-mental powers stay with your body, while your non-psychic mind gets to inherit my non-Powered body. This is best done with a Transform, I agree: I transform 'your body/your mind' into 'your body/my mind', while I 'suffer' a shift of 'my body/my mind' into 'my body/your mind'.

 

What you're trying to propose is radically different. Rogue's targets are typically struck unconscious, and sometimes (though not always) regain consciousness before they regain their powers. This is probably best done as an NND linked to a kickass Mimic Pool VPP; while I can understand the lure of a Multiform inside that 'Mimic VPP', I'm pretty damn certain I'd be 103% leery of letting it be played in my game.

 

I know for certain I wouldn't let you Transform yourself, especially since Transform is stated as not being a Power that can be used to alter your own self. The 'mind switch' Transform that happens to the power-user is more in the nature of a 'side effect', because the Power bought is actually Transforming the target. What happens to the user is a result, a side-effect, not a cause.

 

And please -- what you're suggesting is idiot-simple. Don't let your ego get in the way of your proposals or mathematics.

 

You should also be aware that what you are likely trying to model is a Power at the terrible height of their ability. Parasite can take on -- can and has taken down -- Superman himself. Rogue has been able to wreck almost every super in the Marvel universe that had innate (i.e. non-mechanical/tool) powers. These are major characters, on par with the top-end Powers they're fighting. While I don't know about Parasite (though I'm pretty sure he's encountered this situation), Rogue herself has been knocked out because her power couldn't handle the powers that she was trying to channel.

 

If you want to go to that sort of extreme, however, the Perfectly Rules-Legal build of 'Multiform in the VPP' is perhaps the way for you to go. Considering you can build, for example, Rogue's base strength/invulnerability/flight and psychic wall out of, oh, 250 points, getting something with 'additional powers' for that extra 100 means you're probably going to kick some serious keister.

 

Huh. Okay, horror of horrors, get ready for this one.

 

Me, Plus You: Multiform (600 Character Points in the most expensive form) (Instant Change), Fully Variable 'Other Powers' (+3/4) (219 Active Points); Powers 'Borrowed' Fade At a Rate of 5 Active Points per Minute (-1/2), Always On (-1/2), Must Touch Target To Mimic Powers (-1/2), Limited Class Of Powers Available Limited (Only Powers of Touched Target; -1/2)

 

73 character points.

 

Sticking a Multiform in a VPP limits the active cost of the VPP, and hence the top end of the character in it; we want the character to have a truly incredible top end. 600 points in, for example, a 350-point campaign would certainly serve...

 

Not legal because you need to buy as many multiforms as you desire to take. there is no fully variable advantage the closest thing is variable sfx any +1/2 and that would not re-arrange the points of the Multiform the build would be the same the sfx could be anything.

 

Fully Variable 'Other Powers' (+3/4) is a gross violation of the rules and the spirit of the game because it eliminates the need of the adder x multiple forms! I dont need to double the amount of forms I have by spending 5pts each time no I just slap an advantage on it and prest-to change-o I have an infinite amount of forms at a cheaper cost, that sounds like munkchinism to the 10th power if you ask me!

 

you might as well Allow a VPP with simular limitations and at least you wld come out spending a more reasonable sum of points plus you wld be more legal considering that multiform can be allowed by the rules to be in a Framework if GM's desire it, it's just warned against.

 

Me, Plus You: VPP base 150 control cost (+1/2) no skill roll (+1) 0 phase (+1)(Multiforms only 750 Character Points in the most expensive form) Side effect (always, activates with skin contact) (-1), Side effect (always ,activates when stats from drain are lost) (-1),Must Touch Target To Mimic Powers (-1/2), Limited Class Of Powers Available Limited (Multiforms to mimic Only Powers of Touched Targets; -1/2) Restrainable (-1/2) (375pts active) Real cost 200pts

 

The second side effect goes off every time fade rate of the drian to powers that goes off when she touches comes around. This is that fade rate that will determine loss of points in the multiform until extra points are gone.

 

This is more mechanically acceptible than your example but still would need GM approval because the multiform is in a framwork instead of a vulgar violation of the rules with Fully Variable 'Other Powers' (+3/4) which eliminates the added to x2 ammount of forms per 5pts.

 

Now with all that said you should apologize for making such offensive statements in you post and further more as I've always said in every post even though you build is not legal and has no ground to stand on it's ultimately up to the GM if they'll allow it. Sometimes the GM is more concerned with concept and balance than restricting rules and others are sticklers to the rule except when it comes to their special NPC characters and conditions which seem to happen often and that's gross in it's own right but yet I'm not shooting down you build by concept if it works for you more power it's still not legal!

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Parasite/Rogue Effect

 

Cool this thread down please, or infractions will start to fly and lockage might even ensue.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Parasite/Rogue Effect

 

Fully Variable 'Other Powers' (+3/4) is a gross violation of the rules and the spirit of the game because it eliminates the need of the adder x multiple forms! I dont need to double the amount of forms I have by spending 5pts each time no I just slap an advantage on it and prest-to change-o I have an infinite amount of forms at a cheaper cost, that sounds like munkchinism to the 10th power if you ask me!

 

you might as well Allow a VPP with simular limitations and at least you wld come out spending a more reasonable sum of points plus you wld be more legal considering that multiform can be allowed by the rules to be in a Framework if GM's desire it, it's just warned against.

 

A VPP of "energy blasts only" eliminates the need for Variable Advantage and Variable SFX on your EB. It's a different approach.

 

A VPP of Multiform Only for up to 500 point forms would require a 100 point base. It probably needs to be No Skill roll to simulate the desired effect, which is a +1 advantage on the control cost. How long should it take to gain a new form? Let's take a worst case and say it's instant, so another +1 advantage. "Only one power" is generally a -2 limitation, although I can see a case against that for Multiform, since it allows you to take on any powers. Let's rather set the limit as "only to Multiform into a form with powers and disad's identical to a target touched". That's probably a -1, anyway.

 

So the VPP costs 100 plus (50 x 3/2 =) 75, or 175.

 

The same as a 100 point Multiform with a +3/4 custom advantage.

 

Mind you, with over 32,000 forms to choose from if I buy a 100 point Multiform and 75 points worth of form doublings, I can get the same basic effect without the VPP anyway.

[Guest TheUnknown]

Re: Parasite/Rogue Effect

 

Yeah...dats what I said...only not so el-o-quint...

 

It's a posative effect (from the mind swapping side effect) that your mind and mental powers end up in supermans/ any supers body period no difference. especially when you're not a brick or on the physically tough side!

 

Go figure I'm the only one that see's this or may everyone see's it and just choses to ignore it, either case with that point my build is as legal as the official build!

Top that!

 

I hope no one take offence to my sarcastic humor!

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Parasite/Rogue Effect

 

You're not crazy, everyone else is? Always a bad sign.

 

I suggest you let it drop and just move on.

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Re: Parasite/Rogue Effect

 

Not legal because you need to buy as many multiforms as you desire to take. there is no fully variable advantage the closest thing is variable sfx any +1/2 and that would not re-arrange the points of the Multiform the build would be the same the sfx could be anything.

 

Fully Variable 'Other Powers' (+3/4) is a gross violation of the rules and the spirit of the game because it eliminates the need of the adder x multiple forms!

 

Now with all that said you should apologize for making such offensive statements in you post and further more as I've always said in every post even though you build is not legal and has no ground to stand on it's ultimately up to the GM if they'll allow it. Sometimes the GM is more concerned with concept and balance than restricting rules and others are sticklers to the rule except when it comes to their special NPC characters and conditions which seem to happen often and that's gross in it's own right but yet I'm not shooting down you build by concept if it works for you more power it's still not legal!

 

( ... also ...)

 

Go figure I'm the only one that see's this or may everyone see's it and just choses to ignore it, either case with that point my build is as legal as the official build!

Top that!

 

I hope no one take offence to my sarcastic humor!

Jan 20th, '07 11:48 AM

 

Um, okay. Please -- if you're going to want an apology for statements which were courteous and simple, you should probably request it in a polite manner, instead of demanding one. Your posts really aren't displaying sarcastic humor, they're consistent in displaying ad hominem attacks, lack of a grasp of the English language and sentence structure, and basically mocking the suggestions and recommendations we're making.

 

...

 

I think I can't go any further without ignoring Killer Shrike myself, so I'll drop it there.

 

For the rest of you, however, permit me to indicate where I got the +3/4 modifier for the custom advantage 'Fully Variable 'Other Powers'' from:

 

Duplication. Duplication has a wonderful advantage called 'altered duplicates'. Altered Duplicates': As an advantage, you can have your duplicates have different abilities than you do. +1/4 gives you up to 1/4 of the duplicate's points spent differently; +1/3, up to half. +1 means that ALL your duplicate's points can be spent differently.

 

Considering that the Multiform is 'Me Plus You', there are basic requirements for I presume at least 25% of the new form -- whatever is the 'me' part of it. Considering you're going for a major number of absorption-points (to get 350-point Rogue to soak up powers from 750-point Magneto/Superman/Whomever), this seems reasonable. Or you could go with Hugh's suggestion at that level, which I have to admit I sort of like; 32,000 different forms, here I come!!

[OddHat]

Re: Parasite/Rogue Effect

 

Mind you, with over 32,000 forms to choose from if I buy a 100 point Multiform and 75 points worth of form doublings, I can get the same basic effect without the VPP anyway.

 

Or you could go with Hugh's suggestion at that level' date=' which I have to admit I sort of like; 32,000 different forms, here I come!![/quote']

 

I liked Hugh's suggestion myself, and repped him for it. All you'd need is the GM's permission to leave forms undefined until you needed them, and an understanding between yourself and the GM on how often a given form could be accessed.

 

All of that said, I'd point out that, as was mentioned up thread, most GMs are going to have to look very carefully at permitting a Rogue style character no matter what the build, especially if she can duplicate the full range of powers of a significantly higher point total NPC.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Parasite/Rogue Effect

 

Actuially, by the time you add limitations onto that 32,000 form multiform, restricting the forms you can access and when, it will be considerably less costly than the VPP, since the limitations will affect the full 175 AP cost.

[radioKAOS]

Re: Parasite/Rogue Effect

 

Actuially' date=' by the time you add limitations onto that 32,000 form multiform, restricting the forms you can access and when, it will be considerably less costly than the VPP, since the limitations will affect the full 175 AP cost.[/quote']

 

True that. Just define the other forms as " Me + mimic of [every other super's] powers" - I mean, really, are you telling me there's over 32,000 supers in your campaign?

 

I mean that's nearly 88 years of 'Hero a day' thread.

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Re: Parasite/Rogue Effect

 

Well, 215 actives, or thereabouts. That'd be another what, 8 doublings? 8 million forms?

 

Then again, we ARE trying to do 600 actives on that 350-point character, so that includes buying off the 250 extra points in disads, which would cost you 250/5 = 50 points. So you effectively lose two doublings on the 215-active version, but still, 8,000 forms -- wowie!!

 

Don't forget, though, that there are 'compound forms' as well -- you touch Nightcrawler, then Colossus, then Shadowcat, and have all their abilities, not just the first one ... all for about 75 points. You know, I'm starting to like this as a valid option. Still, that's a hell of a lot of forms to work with -- and only 5 real points to octuple the number of forms ... !!

[Guest TheUnknown]

Re: Parasite/Rogue Effect

 

Um' date=' okay. Please -- if you're going to want an apology for statements which were courteous and simple, you should probably request it in a polite manner, instead of demanding one. Your posts really [i']aren't[/i] displaying sarcastic humor, they're consistent in displaying ad hominem attacks, lack of a grasp of the English language and sentence structure, and basically mocking the suggestions and recommendations we're making.

 

...

 

I think I can't go any further without ignoring Killer Shrike myself, so I'll drop it there.

 

For the rest of you, however, permit me to indicate where I got the +3/4 modifier for the custom advantage 'Fully Variable 'Other Powers'' from:

 

Duplication. Duplication has a wonderful advantage called 'altered duplicates'. Altered Duplicates': As an advantage, you can have your duplicates have different abilities than you do. +1/4 gives you up to 1/4 of the duplicate's points spent differently; +1/3, up to half. +1 means that ALL your duplicate's points can be spent differently.

 

Considering that the Multiform is 'Me Plus You', there are basic requirements for I presume at least 25% of the new form -- whatever is the 'me' part of it. Considering you're going for a major number of absorption-points (to get 350-point Rogue to soak up powers from 750-point Magneto/Superman/Whomever), this seems reasonable. Or you could go with Hugh's suggestion at that level, which I have to admit I sort of like; 32,000 different forms, here I come!!

 

That explains it. Not that advantage does not give you more duplicates just the ability to make them different, while multiform is automatically able to be completely different without any advantage so it's not remotely the same thing. However what I requested an apology about is one specific remark in your post but if you can or wont see which inappropiate statement you made then so bid. Be blessed in all you do!