Multiform & Point Balancing: What am I missing?

[ghost-angel]

Re: Multiform & Point Balancing: What am I missing?

 

... extremely efficient (i.e. underpriced).

 

Wow, there's a statement I think is so patently false my teeth hurt.

 

 

Of all my characters with Multiform none of them have been abusive within the game as played.

 

But it comes down to the GM and Players taking responsibility for the Game Being Played and not letting anyone abuse it.

 

I don't want the System to babysit me.

[pawsplay]

Re: Multiform & Point Balancing: What am I missing?

 

I didn't accuse anyone of abusing the game. I'm just saying, you got your Multiform for a song.

[GAZZA]

Re: Multiform & Point Balancing: What am I missing?

 

This reminds me of the "rule 0" arguments over on the WotC boards.

 

Basically, the position is this: just because a GM can make sure something doesn't get abused, doesn't mean that it's not abusive. Of course a GM can act to make sure something is not abused - a GM can do anything up to and including forbidding the ability outright. But some powers inherently require more GM supervision than others because "by the numbers" they are more point efficient.

 

Does that mean that they should never be allowed in anyone's campaign, ever? No. Does that mean that the powers are incorrectly costed compared to their point efficiency? Perhaps. Should you care even if it is? Entirely at your discretion.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Multiform & Point Balancing: What am I missing?

 

I didn't accuse anyone of abusing the game. I'm just saying' date=' you got your Multiform for a song.[/quote']

 

I think it's appropriately priced.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Multiform & Point Balancing: What am I missing?

 

1. Going over the points total for the base character does not cost double (an extra character point per point); instead, it costs 1:1.

2. Each doubling for +5 points reduces the available base points of each form by 5 points.

I agree with #1, but I have a slight modification to #2: The point-limit with respect to the increased price (a la #1, or the standard double-cost rule) should be the base character cost minus the total Multiform cost. That way, in a 200+150 game, you can have a standard 350-point character with just the usual one form, or you can have a Multiform character with the base form built on 292 points (plus 58 points for the MF), and the other form built on 290 points (58x5).

 

Basically' date=' the position is this: just because a GM can make sure something doesn't get abused, doesn't mean that it's not abusive.[/quote']

Amen! I am so tired of this argument being applied to issues of inherent rules balance. It's like saying a bad law isn't a bad law because cops could always choose not to enforce it, or prosecutors could choose not to prosecute, or judges could choose to dismiss the charge.

 

IMO, the main pricing issues with Multiform are:

a) The +5 for double number of forms

That you can exceed the base points of the base character for only 2/5 of the cost

 

IMO, if you just buy one form, and it doesn't exceed the base character cost, the price is about right.

[pawsplay]

Re: Multiform & Point Balancing: What am I missing?

 

The +5 point doubling is necessary to bring the cost in line with Followers.

 

As for the Multiform cost itself... if you subtract it from all the forms, that has a nice kind of symmetry to it. However, it produces two problems. First, it makes it difficult to create a character who has one pretty normal superhero form, and one less useful form; if the superhero form has to buy Multiform as well, he ends up weaker, despite being pretty interchangeable with a regular hero. Second, it ends up with this weird thing if you try to balance the two forms in points.

 

With Duplication, the reduction is actually convenient, as it basically strips Duplication from the forms, all you have to do is find the point at which it matches. You do not gain the same benefit with Multiform, since the forms are different.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Multiform & Point Balancing: What am I missing?

 

The +5 point doubling is necessary to bring the cost in line with Followers.

Well, it does "bring the cost in line with Followers," but I'm not so sure that it should be. Followers and Multiforms are two very different things. I don't see any reason why they should have the same cost. Heck, I'd like to see the price of gasoline brought into line with the price of soda, but that doesn't mean they're equally valuable.

 

I'm toying with the idea of 2x followers being a +1/4 Advantage, rather than a +5 Adder. Or perhaps a +5 Adder per additional form, rather than for 2x forms. What do you think?

 

As for the Multiform cost itself... if you subtract it from all the forms, that has a nice kind of symmetry to it. However, it produces two problems. First, it makes it difficult to create a character who has one pretty normal superhero form, and one less useful form; if the superhero form has to buy Multiform as well, he ends up weaker, despite being pretty interchangeable with a regular hero. Second, it ends up with this weird thing if you try to balance the two forms in points.

But both forms don't have to buy it. Let the superhero form be tha base form. Assuming a 350 (200+150) point game, he can have, say 325 points worth of awesome power, and for the remaining 25 points, he can have a 125-point highly skilled normal form. Yes, the 325-point super is slightly weaker than his 350-point colleges, but he gets the useful second form in exchange. Isn't that fair?

 

What "weird thing" are you refering to with the two forms balanced? Two 290-point forms make a pretty good character, especially considering that they can be completely different.

 

With Duplication, the reduction is actually convenient, as it basically strips Duplication from the forms, all you have to do is find the point at which it matches. You do not gain the same benefit with Multiform, since the forms are different.

I don't understand what you mean by this.