The Ultimate Tragedian? (Caution: Long, maybe better for posting under GD)

[jkwleisemann]

This is a brief (well... it was earlier… then I hit 5 pages and was still going) piece on being a Tragedian, by Allston's Archetypes for role players. I tend to focus on being a Tragedian in a superheroic setting, largely because that's what I tend to play lately... most of what I have to say here can be applied to any type of game with the genre serial numbers filed off and replaced.

With a little luck, this might help some other players and GM's understand what the *point* is to this apparently depressing style of play, and maybe give GM's an idea of how to throw a bone out to the folks who realize that there's one bright spot about Hamlet - in the end, maybe everything his victory was a Pyrrhic one, but it was still a victory. And, if it doesn't... well, it's killed a stretch of lunch hour I didn't have anything else to do in... (and the following night… and the next morning…)?

Oh, and I’ve put this in Hero System Discussion because I end up with Crunchy Bits to discuss from the System. If folks would rather see it in Gaming Discussion, please, feel free to move it to where it belongs… I’m just not 100% sure where that is.

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Who *wants* to lose?

Oh, sure, we all know it *can* happen. We know that the dice can fall the wrong way, the GM throws something at us that's a bit bigger than we can handle, or we screw up the tactics and we end up losing the fight. Sometimes, our characters even get killed. That's all part of the game... but it's the part of the game nobody wants, right?

So what the *heck* is wrong with those people who *want* to lose?

I can certainly understand why it's hard to... well... understand. We put a lot of effort and emotional investment into our characters, at least those of us who get upset to lose them. I know some people who find losing a character downright traumatic... and I can sympathize. Putting that much time and care into your character, only to see that character erased from the cosmos by virtue of the GM throwing a power at you that was rated for somebody three times your power level is irritating at best, and if you keep seeing your carefully wrought characters wiped out by random die rolls... particularly if it's happened before you got a chance to *enjoy* the parts of them you spent so much time putting together....

Anyways, the trials of trying to RP in a pure hack-and-slash game aside, the fact is that losing *isn't fun.* And, as we've been told by dozens of gaming books, the whole point of it is to have fun. Now, you can enjoy getting to the *point* where you lose, the fight and struggle to survive... but when you see that die turn up anything but the 6 you needed, you're still bummed a bit. Sure, you had fun... but it would've been so much *better* to win. Leonidas might've become legendary, but imagine what would've happened if he'd *survived* Thermopylae (sp?)!

So when you meet somebody like me who not only quietly hopes to see, but *plans for*, his character(s) losing... it's a little odd, to say the least. Not contingency plans, but actually *tries* to make it happen (possibly by conspiring with the GM).

Now... what's the appeal?

Easy. Like those game books say, it's not about 'winning' or 'losing' - it's about telling a story. No story works out for the heroes every time - and most stories of the sort that our characters go through include at least one example of somebody biting it for the greater good. Less so in superhero settings, but dramatic losses and sacrifices remain a major part of the genre, and something that can be fulfilling to RP.

It’s not wallowing in angst that’s the appeal, by the way. I know some people, courtesy of a certain Game Which Shall Remain Nameless, mistake emo for emotion, and hopelessness for tragic roleplaying. Now, this is purely my opinion, but that’s missing the point completely. It’s not that your character has no chance to win… usually, there is *a* chance, but even when there isn’t, that’s not the appeal. The appeal is exploring how the character – or, in a broader sense, the world – reacts to that sort of situation, and the loss that often results from it.

Do you look around, see that you don’t have a chance, and then roll over in defeat? Or do you stand up and fight, shaking off the fact that Things Aren’t Good? If you suffer a major lapse in character, do you wallow in self-pity and misery, or do you get up, admit that you did wrong, and work to make things better?

If you die, does it mean anything?

Now, at least for me, *these* are the parts of the story that make the tragedy worth it. This might actually deviate slightly from the base Tragedian archetype; somebody who likes tragedy for its own sake. I happen to feel that that sort of Tragedian is particularly rare, however. Most of us aren’t having crises heaped upon us and enjoying the sense that our characters can never get ahead in the world… we’re accepting the fact that those sort of things have to happen to set up the larger victory.

So… how does all of this help out any? Here’s a handy list of tips for GM’s with Tragedian players.

• Find out if you actually have one. As alluded to above, even Tragedians think it sucks to lose a character you’ve worked on before getting the payoff of role-playing them. Sometimes, particularly if you’ve had GM’s who thought your interest in tragic characters meant you had cheerfully painted a target on your forehead, you’ll avoid letting on that that’s the sort of thing you really want. Often, simply *asking* what the players want out of a game is sufficient to find out, particularly if you do so in a forum where the players can avoid the others finding out – sometimes it’s more fun to spring it on the others that Leo is going to die when the time comes, get honest reactions to it. In my opinion, that’s always sound advice, regardless of who you’re trying to satisfy.
  
• The Tragedian is your friend. To a certain extent, if you’ve found a Tragedian in your game, you’ve just found your official whipping boy. Plot dictates that somebody dies? We’re *generally* least likely to mind it being us, particularly if it’s meaningful, or we get some say in what happens. Need to kidnap somebody? Some of us would *love* to be the victims, particularly if we get to play at the horrors that may have befallen us in the process. In general though…
  
• Communication is key. If possible, try to trust your Tragedian enough to not spill the beans about the plot, and if you’re planning on working in some new calamity, run it by him first… at least if he’s the victim. Speaking for myself, I happen to enjoy having a bit of warning, some time to figure out a likely reaction and maybe to offer a few twists to the GM. I’ve been known to spot the GM digging the grave out for my character, and grab a shovel myself to help dig it deeper – if my PC is about to lose a loved one, I’d rather it be in as heart-wrenching a manner as I can come up with… sometimes, anyways.
  
• Just because it’s a tragedy doesn’t mean you can’t have a happy ending. Some Tragedians – indeed, probably most – prefer for the tragedy to set up and make more brilliant their eventual victory. After all… if Spidey just curled up into a ball and whimpered when things got rough, hanging up the mask, it wouldn’t be much of a story, would it?
  
• Not all Tragedians are created equal. Some of us are simply masochists – we’ll take whatever the GM throws at us, knowing that this ultimately sadistic soul will offer up the punishment we so crave. Others are somewhat more discriminating, and tend to fall into one of the following “sub-types”:

• • The Phoenix (2 varieties)
    
  • The Victim
    
  • Hamlet
    
  • Romeo and Juliet
    
  • The Fallen
    
  • The Falling
    
  • The Redeemed
    
  • The Survivor
    
  • The Dying
    
  • The Beast

A few more details on each might be handy, so here they are. Not only a description of the sorts of tragedies that they go for is included, but often some suggestions for where to ‘end’ the story. This doesn’t have to be the end of the game, or even the character, though it often is – rather, this is the “payoff” that the Tragedian is usually ultimately working towards with this type of tragedy, the ‘big moment’ in their story after which the rest is picking up the pieces… at least for a while, which is sometimes a part of the payoff itself.

The Phoenix (Version 1):

I’d never really thought about it before that day. Superheroes… they were as crazy as the villains, I’d always thought. Sure, I had my own little gifts, but why should I take them and gone out to stick my ass on the line? There were other supers out there, and I didn’t much like the idea of getting killed.

Then I watched while two of them dueled above the city… and for once, the hero lost. Copperhead had been playing for keeps; he’d slaughtered Mongoose and thrown his broken body to the ground for all the world to see. Well guess what… I saw. I saw, and I finally realized what it was that drove some of these people to do what they did. They were sick of seeing what happened when assholes like Copperhead got to run around free… so now I’m going to bring him in. Bring in the whole bunch of them.

Hope Mongoose doesn’t mind my borrowing the name… but it seemed fitting.

-Mongoose II

The Phoenix (Version 2):

My arm burns from where he hacked off my hand… at least the bleeding’s stopped. But I know that it’s only the beginning of the pain I’m about to endure. I wish there was another way to do this… another way to stem the tide. But if I’m going to beat Whitefang next time, I’m going to need more than my armor. I’m going to need a new power… going to need a new way to fight him.

I’m going to need a new name and soul.

My claws sink into my own flesh as I pluck my eye out, sacrificing it to Mimir’s Well in a grim homage to Wotan. The chains lash out, binding me, biting into me, lifting me up above the Well as the waiting begins.

But I will endure… because I know that she’ll be there, waiting for me, when it’s all over.

-Tyr Wotani, formerly known as Mjolnir

The Phoenix, in either variation, is one of the more difficult Tragic archetypes to fulfill without the GM’s help – because they’re one of the few characters for whom grievous injury or even death is basically nothing more than a Radiation Accident. Type 1 Phoenixes (Inheritors, alternately) are actually two entirely different characters in one – at some point in time, possibly before the campaign began, the original character died or was forced to retire, and the second picked up the mantle. This can be particularly interesting to play when you take *both* characters in the game proper.

The Type 2 Phoenix is similar, in that the “core” tragedy for this type of player is serious injury or death. However, rather than putting a new person in the old role, the same one will come back… eventually. In Tyr’s example, he lost a hand and an eye but came back with an entirely different powerset than his Power Armor origins.

The injury doesn’t *have* to be his, by the way. In another example of mine, Huntsman was the team leader. In a disastrous battle, most of the team was injured and one team member was apparently killed. Hunstman apparently had a breakdown, disappearing for months. When he came back, he had become the Specter, having browbeaten the team Mystic into binding him to the spirits of great heroes who had fallen against the villain who’d so soundly thrashed them.

The key for most Phoenixes is seeing their new character take on the very force that destroyed the old, and win… and then getting to pick up the pieces of the life that existed before, whether filling its shoes or trying to fit back into them after changing so very much.

The Victim:

Chillzone had never been quite the same since she’d been rescued from the Monster. She didn’t want to talk about it, but everybody could tell that what had happened had affected her deeply. It couldn’t have been her injuries… they hadn’t been that bad, and she’d suffered much worse before.

But then… as Solitaire had been quick to point out after helping with the rescue, the Monster might not need to leave physical marks to injure somebody.

Victims can be one of the harder types to work with. In a way, they closely resemble the ‘masochist’ baseline – they enjoy having the chance to play up all manner of horrors befalling their character, usually beyond their control. However, Victims are separated from the masochistic sort largely because, rather than enjoying the ‘pain’ for its own sake, they enjoy the chance to play a character who’s not only legitimately psychologically troubled… a common thread among Tragedians… but has a good reason for it. Kidnappings are easy ways to play towards this… but other crimes, that go farther, can work too, as long as nobody’s made too uncomfortable by the subject matter.

There’s often an element of revenge associated with victims, as with most Tragedians. Eventually, playing through the emotional wreck that was caused by whatever happened will begin to get a little old, and have to move on – at that point, the obvious place to take your average Victim is back to the scene of the crime, in one form or another, to find some measure of justice for what happened to them.

Hamlet:

It wasn’t supposed to end this way. I was supposed to come riding in, my comrades at my back, and make it all better. I was supposed to slay the King… reclaim my family’s honor… leave his kingdom in the chaos mine was left in.

So why is it that, even after ripping the head off of his pet wizard, I can’t touch the bastard with sword or spear? What sort of magic is it that he wields *himself*?

I remember the warning I was given… that no weapon could harm the Dark King… that it was a dead man’s folly to try. And it gives me an idea.

I throw down my urgrosh and raise my shield, charging through a hail of blows that bite deeply into the metal, that shatter armor and bite into my flesh. As I get too close for him to use his sword, he draws a slim dagger. As he slips it through a chink in my plate mail, I throw the shield aside, taking the death blow gladly as I wrap my arms around him.

“Let’s see how you handle a hundred foot fall under dwarven armor,” I grin grimly, using the last of my strength to push us both off the battlements. And I know by the scream he lets out, the last thing I hear before blackness and blood loss take me, that he knows this will kill him.

-The last thoughts of Rurik Soulsmith

Hamlets, like their namesake, have a goal they’re after. The trick is, they want their victory to be a Pyrrhic one. They want to make the noble sacrifice, giving their own lives – and possibly those around them – for the final, complete victory over their foes. Hamlet might have preferred it another way… but for this Tragedian, if Hamlet hasn’t lost everything, then he hasn’t really proven his willingness to sacrifice it. Sometimes, even a total loss will satisfy them, so long as the character has actually lost *meaningfully*, after a lengthy battle or putting things into place that will let their quest be finished.

Romeos and Juliets:

Somehow… it always manages to go wrong. I don’t know why… I’m faithful, I do my damnedest to keep dates, I shower them with affection. This last time, I even thought it was going to work out, right up until the end. After all… she even knew about the trickier parts of my life, the parts that I had to keep secret from most of them. But I guess, somewhere along the line, I forgot what always happens when I start to think that….

-James Jonathon, holding the body of his girlfriend, Anya

The Romeos and Juliets out there are relationship masochists. They’re a hybrid of the Tragedian and the Romantic; they’re happiest when their character is in a relationship… or when that relationship is being ripped apart, throwing their character into a depression that risks consuming them, whether it be in self-destructive misery, or in an all-consuming quest for vengeance. Alternate forms of Romeos and Juliets include the Lancelot, whose taste for forbidden love leads inexorably to tragedy, the Ichigo, who always falls for somebody from the wrong side of the good/evil line, and the Aladdin, who have a tendency to find themselves questing after the object of their affection after being separated from them. Eventually, they might actually *find* that lasting love and relationship they’re after… but many times, this will be the end of the character as a regular PC. After all… once you’ve finally saved the Princess, are you really going to go out and risk losing her again?

The Fallen:

Bunch of idiots…I’ve seen their kind before. Hell, I was one of them once. They think they can fix the world just because they’ve got good intentions. They’ve got a foolproof plan, a chance to take out the lynchpin of the Empire, and once that’s gone the entire house of cards will fall apart. Freedom will bloom, and gumdrops, wonderful gumdrops, will rain from the sky!

Morons.

I finished my drink and told them exactly what I thought of their plan. Told ‘em I’d done the same damned thing – they knew that, or they wouldn’t have been talking to me. And I told them that all it got me was a year of torture before I managed to escape with my life. No way I was going to go through all that again.

Then the Stormtroopers showed up, looking for them… and damned if I wasn’t the first one to grab my blaster and start shooting when it became clear they weren’t going to get out of it.

Somehow… it always turns out this way. Maybe this time I’ll manage to get myself killed, get it over with once and for all.

- Doruth, fallen Jedi

More than any of the other archetypes, the Fallen prefer for their tragedy to be off-screen… normally because it’s a lot easier than putting it on-screen when it’s usually solo and separated from their fellow players. At one point or another, Something Bad happened that left them broken and cynical… they might even start the game preferring to stay miserable than to do something to change it (apparently). But events keep pushing them back towards their destiny, whatever that might be – ultimately, despite their belief that there are no heroes, only fools, they don’t really have a choice but to be a bit of both. Eventually, they might even embrace it… and that’s when the Fallen feel that their hero’s journey is complete, however it might end.

The Falling:

Another day, another dollar. Up before dawn… remembered to sleep last night… into the bathroom. Feel like Hell today. Need go get my brain in gear before I get back to work on the Huntress suit….

Damn, only six pills left. Going to have to find another doctor soon, one who’s busy enough he’ll prescribe it without checking up on how long I’ve been on this stuff. Hate having to jump through these hoops, but it’s the only one I’ve found that does the trick.

I drink down the pill, lock the medicine chest, and head back into my room to get dressed for the day. Time to get to work….

- A typical morning in the day of Huntress

The Falling are the opposite of the Fallen… or, more accurately, they’re a Fallen tragedian who starts earlier. They enjoy playing characters with a flaw. The Fallen might have had an external force drag them screaming into the abyss, but the Falling usually go that way themselves, walking towards the cliff with no dog to save them. It might be an external force of sorts, but usually there is some internal element – whether obsession, addiction, or arrogance – that drives them towards their eventual collapse. The payoff isn’t necessarily in the fall, but in the fallout from it, and the recovery. However, the Falling are particularly prone to creating disruptions in games… not necessarily bad ones, but if the other players are likely to take offense to somebody “screwing around” and doing things with less than tactical perfection, Tragedians in general and the Falling in particular aren’t necessarily going to mix.

The Redeemed:

I know what they’re thinking as I walk down the street. They all recognize me… the trial saw to that. My face was everywhere, and I was the star defendant when they finally took down the Nest. I know they’re whispering behind my back… wondering if I’ve really gone straight. But I can handle this… I’ve handled it for a long time. I’ve got my little girl back now, and that makes it easier… she’s managed to forgive her Dad for what he’s done, even if nobody else has.

Then I see the familiar green tattoo sticking out from under the sleeve of one of the people walking around. Sloppy… most of VIPER’s assassins are more careful than that. This one must just be a thug who wants to make a name for himself.

“Hon, I just remembered something,” I lie apologetically. “Could you take Becky, get some ice cream while I go take care of it?”

Jenny doesn’t fall for it for an instant… she knows better. But it works for Becky.

“C’mon, hon,” my ex-wife smiles falsely, taking our daughter off somewhere safe as I continue towards the fight that’s going to come.

At least now I don’t have to screw around with a costume anymore….

- John Walker, former VIPER combat specialist

When you take a Falling character, and make them play out their tragedy prior to the game starting, you get the Redeemed. Usually it’s a more obvious flaw – they might have had smaller flaws, but more often these are your ex-villains and crooks who’ve gone straight and are fighting to overcome their past. They’re very similar to the Fallen in that respect, but usually they didn’t have the ‘good luck’ to pick a socially acceptable means of becoming a tragic figure.

The Survivor:

The knives swirl through the air, slashing and stabbing at Mick as he screams. He deserves it all though… God, the things he’s done? He deserves infinitely more than I can give him. For my sister… our friends… for –

A scream breaks me out of my sleepwalking, and I look around, gasping, disoriented. There’s a knife sticking out of the kitchen wall… damn it.

I start running to see if anybody was actually hurt during the storm, or if I’d just scared somebody….

- A night in the life of Razor

Similar to Victims, the Survivor enjoys tragedies that involve being the butt of the cosmos’ horror stories. However, while Victims thrive on being… well… victimized, the Survivor needs to come out of it. They don’t need to actually *be* the victim either – it can be somebody around them. In Razor’s case, she was the only survivor of a group of her friends and sister. What drives them on isn’t necessarily a character who’s haunted by their own personal experiences, but by the sense that they shouldn’t have lived through it either. Revenge *might* be an element, but not always – often as not, simply coming to terms with the fact that they lived and others didn’t, going on to prove that they were worthy of that quirk of fate, will give them what they’re after.

The Dying:

I wince, clutching my side as my body fights against itself, the painkillers wearing off. There’s no time to go get myself suitably medicated again though… not now. Not with the others still on the line of fire.

The Iron Tyrant hurls a blast of energy at them; Waveform barely deflects it with a shield of light.

“Hey! Asshole! Over here!” I snarl, jumping out from behind cover. I’ve been cowering long enough, hiding instead of helping. I lash out at the armored villain, my powers creating a hellish world where sound is color, touch is taste, and his nightmares lace through reality with the metallic tang of blood. The worst trip he’ll ever take. It’s only a distraction, just enough to make him focus on me. As the bolt of plasma consumes me, I can see that Steel’s gotten the chance to get into the air and take him down, putting his fist through the Tyrant’s armor and ripping the man right out of it.

Funny… I’d always thought death would be slower than this. Just as well… who wants to die in a hospital bed anyways?

- Vision’s last moments

Like Doc Holliday, the Dying Tragedian knows that his character is going to die eventually. The idea isn’t to save them – it’s to make sure that their death is meaningful and that it doesn’t pass unnoticed. This is one character, much like the Phoenix, needs a lot of help from the GM to work out, particularly in a Champions game where lethality isn’t as often a factor.

One crucial difference between the Phoenix and the Dying exists though – the Phoenix didn’t plan on dying, even if the player did. The Dying is a character who knows his time on this Earth (or where ever) is limited, and often lives accordingly.

The Beast:

I look around me, the Other savoring the pain of my fallen comrades, clamoring for the souls of those who won’t make it. Razor’s body falls to the ground near Destroyer’s feet, broken, shattered despite her desperate attempt to use her powers to turn his armor against him.

“You can end this, boy. Give me what I want, and I’ll leave,” he bellows at me. The rage wells up inside of me. He knows what it will cost the world if I do what he wants… but he doesn’t care. He just wants his immortality, even if it means destroying everything I hold dear to get it from me.

“You want the full power of my gift? Then so be it!” I raise my hands, the palms opening up into hungry, toothed mouths, my tentacles writhing as I undo the blocks on all my powers. The mouths of my hands start chanting, speaking the words my own cannot, as my costume is ripped from my body, exposing my blasphemous form to the world. The sky darkens, clouds swirling as the Gate begins to open.

“This is what you wanted, Destroyer!” I scream at him. “The power of immortality, granted to you by my father!” My own mouth joins the chorus, chanting the spell, working the magic that could well bring about the end of the world. Hours ago I had refused to do this for just that reason. Now… I don’t give a shit anymore. I weep for the world I risk condemning, but my blackened soul, the soul of the Other, surges with glee at the thought of unleashing Vulshoth, of turning him loose on Destroyer.

Of proving to this arrogant son of a bitch that he isn’t the greatest power in the cosmos.

I think I see the flash of comprehension in his eyes, just before my Father drags him screaming through the gate to the Qliphothic Realm. The power of the Shining Darkness rushes through me, filling me with malevolent might… and, mercifully, Father retreats. Destroyer was not a sufficient sacrifice to unleash him… but it was enough to unleash the taint of his realm.

What monsters have I given birth to today?

As qliphothic power warps my body, I know exactly why my aunts and uncles had debated so strongly over whether or not to kill me as a child… and I curse them for not having the courage to do so.

- Outsider

The Beast’s power comes from a tainted source – demons, beasts from the Qliphothic Realm, an inner rage that transforms him into a psychopathic murder machine, something that leaves him with the destiny of destroying all that he holds dear. Sometimes – indeed, some might say inevitably – matters will come to a head, leaving the Beast with three options:

• Do nothing, and fail completely in the short-term.
  
• Do something, and pray that it’s enough
  
• Do everything you can… and risk destroying the world around you.

To the Tragedian, this choice is the entire point – what *will* they do. And if they choose #3… how will they make it better?

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As you *might* be able to guess from the fact that I’ve got characters under each of those types (some ones that I’ve played, some ones that I’m playing, others entirely new), characters can also fall into the different archetypes as well as the Tragedians who play them. Indeed, it’s more common for that to be what happens – you want to tell different stories every once in a while, after all, explore different responses and causes. With that in mind, we come to what actually puts this in something other than the “Gaming Discussion” forum (I *think* - if folks disagree, feel free to move it) – crunchy bits! Advice on how to *build* these tragic figures, for both Tragedians who want ideas, and other types of players and GM’s who want to dabble a bit.

The Phoenix:

Rules-wise, both types of Phoenix are actually pretty easy to handle – nothing all that fancy about them. However, for Type 1’s, disads like “Tries to live up to the legacy of X” or “Questions his suitability as the new X” (both Common, Mod, 10 points) are good, as are Reputation: Inheritor of the Mantle and inherited Hunteds.

For Type 2’s, Physical Lims and Distinctive Features are often handy. They’ve gotten themselves beaten down most thoroughly, and should usually show some scars from it. Further, again, inheriting many of the prior version’s Disads is generally wise.

For both types, the GM needs to plan ahead a bit to give opportunities for the “radiation accidents” that lead up to the changes this character will go through. Large, lethal opponents with a reason to focus on them are a good idea – for example, in Tyr’s case, he was an alien defector who lost his hand fighting against his old commanding officer during the inevitable invasion. In Mongoose’s case… well, you don’t make “taking down VIPER single-handedly” your primary goal without putting yourself high on several people’s hit lists.

The Victim and the Survivor:

Again, Psych Lims are the way to go… if you were victimized before the game began. Maybe a couple Physical lims and Distinctive Features, but the meat of this character will be in the mental mess they represent. Lims like “Vengeance Seeking” or “Chronic Nightmares” are handy, as are ones like “Suicidal” or “Death Wish.” Depending on how the character has reacted, you might also take things like Paranoid or Loner; once bitten-twice shy, after all. Sleepwalking is a particular favorite of mine… as is the following:

Physical Limitation: Sometimes Loses Control of Powers (Unc., Greatly impairing,) 10 points.

If you’re going to be victimized *in* the game… then build a normal character. The GM *might* be willing to let you switch a few disads around when the time comes, but don’t count on it. However, before you suffer your loss… you *are* a normal character, so you should keep that in mind.

Hamlet:

Obsession, obsession, obsession! Psych Lims are going to be a recurring theme here, so get used to it. “Obsessed with achieving X” is your friend for the Hamlet, as are Hunteds (agents of your enemies), and probably a good dose of Unluck.

Romeo and Juliet:

If I have to say “In Love with X,” then you’re not paying attention. Oddly though, standard DNPC’s aren’t so much a good option – they tend to get offed for some of these sorts. Floating DNPC’s though… welcome to 14- territory. Various quest and relationship-based disads are good ones too… or, if you’re going to have lost a loved one before the game started, “Doesn’t Want a New Relationship” quickly becomes a somewhat counter-intuitive approach that works well.

The Fallen and the Redeemed:

You should remember that these characters are usually veterans, of life if not of whatever the campaign’s about. Dependencies, a few “save my own skin” psych lims, old injuries… these are all handy. Disads related to whatever caused the Fall are also necessary; Enraged is sometimes useful (it certainly was for Doruth), but “Doesn’t Want a New Relationship,” “Chronic Nightmares,” “Loner,” “Civilians Don’t Get It” and similar things all fall into the same general category.

Don’t underestimate Hunted and DNPC’s though, particularly for the Redeemed – one rarely leaves the demons to join the angels without making the demons angry. Reputations are good too, though many Fallen live with (effectively) a Secret ID, and many Redeemed with a more Public one.

The Falling:

Like a pre-victimization Victim or Survivor, you’re mostly a normal character… but you should have at least one *major* character flaw. In Huntress’ case, she had two related ones – she’s addicted to methamphetamines, having been taking a prescription for them for years longer than she was supposed to be, and as a result she suffers from occasional paranoid jags that only get stronger as she goes into withdrawal when she can’t get her fix. Just remember that the entire *idea* is that this flaw is going to end up ruining your life, mostly… and, again, the GM might not be willing to switch your disads around when the time comes. If he is though, Fallen and Redeemed advice applies.

The Dying:

Psych lims aren’t as handy here, really. “Death Wish” or “Reckless” can be good, but the ones to look for here are the Powers and the Phys Lims. Terminally Ill, a Dependence on different medications, these are all good, if not necessary for the Man who is Going to Die. Similarly, Uncontrolled Side Effects is a good limitation to take, especially on “big gun” powers.

If he is *known* to be dying, the following might be appropriate:

Social Limitation: “Made of Glass” Syndrome (Common, Greatly impairing, 15 points)

The character is known to be gravely ill… which leads some people to assume that he’s fragile as well. They’ll tend to jump to do things, which sounds good until it’s happening to you – they encourage a feeling of helplessness out of sheer good-will. Others will avoid the character entirely, whether out of not wanting to hurt him, not wanting to associate with somebody who could die, or not wanting to risk catching whatever it is they have.

And some will decide to try and help him along… this is particularly true of more sadistic villains.

GM advice includes not just the usual “prepare for this character to have a chance to die heroically,” bits, but also a recommendation to consider giving out a “freebie” batch of points for the purpose of buying a “big gun” power that *will* kill the character – 15 points from “Dies if uses Power X” (Unc, Total) will actually often do the job, particularly if the power is suitably Limited (in this case, I recommend ignoring the “If it’s not a limitation, it doesn’t count” rule for things like 1 Charge, Non-Recoverable). After all – it might not be much of a limitation, but they *are* going to die when and if they use it… that’s worth more than 15 points, I think.

The Beast:

Various “disconnected from humanity” or “guilt” oriented psych lims are good… but Watched or Hunted lims are, perhaps, even better. Most powers should be bought with Side Effects of various sorts, and for Mystical Beasts, often with RSR’s and massive Side Effects reflecting the tendency to occasionally summon a King of Edom or something of the sort. Social Limitations reflecting whether or not people know about the character’s tendency to make Bad Things happen are also pretty good, as are Reputations.

=========

So… 13 pages or so of ‘brief’ rumination on Tragedians. If you actually slogged through all this, congratulations. If you’ve got any particular thoughts you’d like to add to the thread… well, that’s largely why it’s here! Hope to see this turn into an interesting little discussion.

[Metaphysician]

Re: The Ultimate Tragedian? (Caution: Long, maybe better for posting under GD)

 

I should wave Bcaugust over here. She's playing a Tragedian right now, effectively ( a Romeo & Juliet type, using your archetype scale, albeit of the single relationship rather than floating type; it isn't that her love is easy to kill, its that he's on the other side )

[jkwleisemann]

Re: The Ultimate Tragedian? (Caution: Long, maybe better for posting under GD)

 

Ah, an Ichigo, to go by the specific example I gave. ;P (Note: Refers to Ichigo from Tokyo Mew Mew, who had three different potential love interests... one was a villain, one was a jerk, and the third turned out to be the Big Bad Guy.....)

 

Sure, wave her over - be interesting to see what she thinks about this, if anything.

[BcAugust]

Re: The Ultimate Tragedian? (Caution: Long, maybe better for posting under GD)

 

Actually, she's playing the Beast as well, in a more literal sense. The whole not understanding humans nor caring to, throwing her lot in with Death/Destiny, becoming the Goddess of Nature. Artemis was supposed to be a lighter character then she turned out.

 

 

Seriously, it was less willing to go into tragedy then... hmm, finding out it happened? Every step(Starting with the fact he rescued her first, I should note) happened naturally. In fact, I was expecting him to just be using her to get what he needed, then dumping her. But that was one of the dangers I expected when I made a character that wasn't social and didn't understand human society. It didn't turn out that way. The amusing thing is, the real tragedy isn't that they're on opposite sides(all of their friends, on both sides, approve the match.). It's that she loves a man who likely can't give up revenge, even for the woman he loves. Of course, it does fit the game as well... epic romance is a big part of what drives mythology and stories. The guys in our group are just slacking on their part.

 

Actually, my tragic character was supposed to be Cyrande(she's posted elsewhere on this site). There was some... darker stuff in her background that wasn't public knowledge, that was supposed to come into game later. However, the game ended before we got anywhere near most of it.

[wylodmayer]

Re: The Ultimate Tragedian? (Caution: Long, maybe better for posting under GD)

 

jk, this is awesome. I'm totally repping you when the time comes.

 

I have a player who routinely goes the Tragedian route. Some of his past characters:

 

*in In Nomine, a cynical, burnt out angel of creation who sleeps with a demon because she gets under his skin, which in turn fuels his creative spark. He constantly struggles with self loathing for consorting with Hell, and is always compromising his principles to accomplish the "good" result. The player was quite insistent that there come a point when he can 'really' do the right thing, though.

 

*In a superhero game, a hero who was an abusive womanizer and junkie before he was 'outed' about this to the world, at which point he fled - the player played a series of different characters for a year of real time before bringing back the old character, having sunk to the bottom and then pulled himself back out again (developed in private sessions and 90+ pages of bluebooking!) to become a real hero. He came back in a new identity and earned the team's trust again under a new name before revealing himself.

 

*In a WoD game, a death-mage who liked the dead because he could control them, and because they didn't threaten him - he had been abused by his father in unspeakable ways, and was wary of basically anyone, well, alive and animate. Basically a good guy, though.

 

*In another superhero game, a hero whose selfishness and moody nature eventually chased off his wife, who was then kidnapped by a villain, and he had to rescue her and then try to slowly and painfully rebuild their relationship.

 

Etc.

 

He's a great guy, and a terrific roleplayer. The key is that he loves for his guys to overcome great struggle - to redeem their sins or failings with a show of moral strength in the end.

 

My characters on the other hand...

 

*In a superhero game, a moody, bitter mathematical genius/energy projector who is a paranoid schizophrenic. She takes heavy doses of antipsychotics to control her hallucinations and potentially homocidal tendencies (important for someone with a MegaScale Explosion RKA v ED), but the medicine not only causes depression, but also causes long term tardive dyskinesia (i.e., she'll basically be a Parkinson's patient by the time she's 40). She's not a pleasant person to be around.

 

*In another superhero game, a skilled normal who was so thoroughly abused by the denizens of her slum neighborhood growing up that her mind fractured and invented a superheroic personality to rescue herself.

 

*In yet another game, a character who openly holds such repulsive social/political views as to be widely reviled by the public and other heroes. People who have read my posts in other threads going back some time will know what I'm talking about here.

 

I'm the guy who actively enjoys watching his characters go mad in Call of Cthuhlu. I like playing Victims and Falling. I love nothing more than playing a Paladin who eventually slips down the path to becoming a Blackguard. My superhero characters are almost all deeply disturbed people. I don't want them to get solace, I don't want them to get helped.

 

The paranoid schizophrenic, for instance, really couldn't be helped. There's nothing that anyone can do for that character. Another player in the group remarked after dealing with the character for some time, "Okay, I'll bite - what's the resolution?" I looked at him and said, "What resolution? She's insane and she's miserable about it." He said, "That's it? She doesn't get cured or something?" "Nope." He didn't get it. He had no idea why I would want to play that character.

 

Frankly, neither do I. I don't have any idea why I enjoy portraying unstable, tormented souls. But I do. I want them to be maladjusted, or hated, or self loathing, or preferably all of the above. I especially want this in superhero games, where characters are often idealized. In superhero games, I am highly motivated to play incongruously unpleasant individuals whose screwed-up lives intrude upon the pristine landscape of perfect bodies and supergeniuses and millionaire playboys.

 

(shrug) Who knows.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: The Ultimate Tragedian? (Caution: Long, maybe better for posting under GD)

 

Dude!

This was amazingly well done, and I see myself and my characters everywhere in this article.

 

One thing I've always liked about HERO Disads is they work very organically with tragic characters.

 

Thinking about it, I think this may be the single thing I miss the most about my old players... there were a lot of tradegians , so we got to indulge often.

[jkwleisemann]

Re: The Ultimate Tragedian? (Caution: Long, maybe better for posting under GD)

 

BcAugust: Hey, some of the most entertaining ones are the char's we stumble into. And I know what you mean about the game breaking up before you had the chance to get it out there. It's happened to me so often that I find myself having a hard time not 'blurting it out,' so to speak, before its proper time (see: Jenny/Razor's backstory in Colton High North.)

 

(General aside: Looking through there, you *might* notice that I have a thing for tragic Teenage characters too [Razor and Outsider are both from there, Astrid ends up a Victim, Jerry's a Beast of another sort, about to introduce two other Victims who also serve as a sort of Romeo couple....] I just don't buy into the "they should be overreacting to everything, rather than having real tragedies" theory; they should have the same sort of heartaches and suffering as their adult counterparts....)

 

Amadan, Wylodmayer: Thanks for the praise regarding the article (really... it doesn't warrant 'post' anymore, does it? ^^() )

 

The characters sound fun - and agreed, sometimes the ones who *don't* have resolutions can be fun too. Though, personally, having wallowed in my own *personal* depression and such for a stretch, I'll admit that I prefer ones who'll eventually either find a way out of it, or (more often) find a way to overcome it.

 

Of course... I *did* design a team whose former leader had pulled a Destroyer and detonated half of Milwaukee once, rather than lose a fight with one of his major enemies... so maybe I *don't* focus on whether or not they get over their issues so much.

[AdamLeisemann]

Re: The Ultimate Tragedian? (Caution: Long, maybe better for posting under GD)

 

Admittedly, I do not normally play "Tragedian" characters, but I have in the past, and I do have various concepts that also fit into the Tragedian setup.

 

Trelaine Harpwhisker was a really old character of mine in a furry fantasy RPG (oddly enough, one with no magic). He was a vulpine minstrel whose fiance, Arryanna Whitefur, was brutally murdered when he was away doing his job as a storyteller. The trauma of seeing his beloved dead in such a manner has effective driven him insane. He is locked in a very deep depression and beleives himself haunted by the spirit of his fiance. He even had spells where he beveived a comely canine or vulpine woman to be Arryana. He's basically a Survivor and a Romeo.

 

An unplayed character, Goate Manchessen, is also a tragedian-type, made for a furry fantasy setting (this one, with magic). He is a healer from a family of necromancers, with all the concerns of bad blood that come with it. He is terrible disturbed by the sins of the father and seeks to redeem himself. His destiny, oddly enough, is that he will eventually take up the necromantic arts and destroy his family. What a rough way for fate to work out! I don't quite know what type this will make him.

 

Although it would be difficult to classify Reinard the Fox as a Tragedian, his arch-nemisis Lyle Lynx was once a good friend of his. And let's face it, it's rough to see a friend go down a terrible path, and rougher still to have to do something about it. Is there a category for tragedians who must ultimately have to fight the ones closes to them? Lynx himself can certainly be made into one of the Fallen, at least in my mind.

 

And outside of my characters, The Joker can somewhat be seen as a Fallen character, if one reads "The Killing Joke."Afterall, it took "one bad day" to drag him down from a failed comedian to the psycho that he is today.

 

Or maybe I do not fully grasp the "Fallen."

 

But I normally don't play characters with severe issues. That little fact does seem to cramp my ability to make them interesting.

[Zed-F]

Re: The Ultimate Tragedian? (Caution: Long, maybe better for posting under GD)

 

Hm, let's see what I have in my roster...

 

Soulbarb is a bit of a special case as she comes from a tragic background but the game she wound up in required her to adopt more of a heroic attitude. Her backstory involves being raped by a demon and having her soul ripped out of her, only to be trapped in a gem she wears about her neck, which measures the progress of her damnation. Her connection to that gemstone is shared with the demon who raped her, and who regularly tempts her to fall further from vigilanteism to murderousness. Many of her powers are obviously demonic, and she can't go out in hero ID in public during the daytime without inciting mass fear and panic.

 

As the character's personality has grown, she's become more of a Dark Hero ala Batman than a truly tragic figure... but in the right sort of game, she could certainly be more of a tragic figure. She's closest to Fallen or Redeemed in temperament.

 

A better example would be Tatyana Moralani, a fantasy character I've played off and on again in a variety of games. The exact circumstances of her powers and origin change depending on the game, but the gist of it is that she is a nice girl (if somewhat naive) who one wouldn't ordinarily expect to find amongst a company of adventurers, but who suffered some sort of problem that forced her on the road -- one that unlocked or created or revealed some sort of power that makes her a danger to those around her, often by turning her into a ginsu fighting machine. She's genuinely horrified by the violence (and usually death) she has caused, but blocked out the experience and so unfortunately has no idea how she did it or whether it will happen again, and if so what will trigger it. As a result, she lives in fear of what might happen the next time. She plays out something like a combination of Beast and Victim.

[Peregrine]

Re: The Ultimate Tragedian? (Caution: Long, maybe better for posting under GD)

 

Falling/Fallen/Redeemed are the ones that appeal most to me; especially the Redeemed part. The Paladin-cum-Blackguard, the Dark Jedi restored to the light... Hell, I want to see Kevin Armstrong "brought in from the cold" in the CU. I don't mind Falling if I can play out Getting Back Up Again.

 

I also have a mild liking for the Romeo and Juliet, except that here I also want an eventual happy ending - I want a relationship to finally work out for the character.

 

What I am not interested in (generally speaking; I am currently paying a character who may well be an exception) is a tragic end for the character. Let me play through the tragedy and out the other side to some restoration, "putting it behind me", or "working out the aftermath".

 

And (message to a past GM) don't arbitrarily kill my character in such a way as to make a mockery of the character, his background, and his concept; especially not by invoking the climactic scene of the movie that inspired said character and reversing the outcome of the scene so that the character dies where the movie's hero survived. That's not tragedy; that's abusive behavior by the GM.

[jkwleisemann]

Re: The Ultimate Tragedian? (Caution: Long, maybe better for posting under GD)

 

Erff - yeah, that sort of thing can be trouble too (see my comments in the Points Equality thread about one of *my* prior groups... )

 

I know what you mean about wanting to see them get up too... my take on it varies from character to character, honestly. Some of them, the entire point is to fall down eight times, get up nine. Others... well, with a character like Vision (who I should probably post, one of these days, I s'pose), the point was instead to go into things and die in a way that *meant* something, even if it *did* end up being the slow, lingering end he expected.

[Peregrine]

Re: The Ultimate Tragedian? (Caution: Long, maybe better for posting under GD)

 

There's nothing wrong with playing a character that is doomed to die/fall finally and forever - if you either A. have that as the character concept from the get-go, or B. that aspect of the character reveals itself to you in play, based on your own understanding of the character. As I indicated, I am currently playing a character that I have realized is trapped into a tragic and final end, short of miraculous (in-game) intervention. And I'm OK with that.

 

But, in general, I want my characters to get up, not just to continue to struggle futilely, but to overcome, to triumph. IOW, I want them to be heroes, not just in struggling, but also in overcoming through the struggle and living to tell the tale; key word there being "overcoming".