Crowns of Krim vs Justice Squadron

[Metaphysician]

Same deal as with Eurostar vs Sentinels. Meeting engagement, neither side has surprise. How does it go?

[Vondy]

Re: Crowns of Krim vs Justice Squadron

 

The Clowns of Krim win hands down. Demon eating face-pie.

[MitchellS]

Re: Crowns of Krim vs Justice Squadron

 

I can't see the Crowns coming close to winning this one. Dark Seraph's the only character with an attack over 12d6 or decent defenses [Temblor has 30 but everyone else averages 23 or less].

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Crowns of Krim vs Justice Squadron

 

How are the Justice Squadron vis-a-vis Enhanced Senses and exotic Defenses? The Crowns have an array of Flash and Darkness attacks, Bloodstone has some nasty NND attacks, and Dark Seraph's BODY Drain is devastating. Most of the Crowns also use Killing Attacks, so Resistant DEF would be a must against them. Temblor can do 14d6 straight damage, or 10d6 Armor Piercing, albeit at a high END cost. And Damage Reduction does help the Crowns' Defense situation somewhat.

 

In general, though, I've always thought the other Crowns are a little too inferior to Dark Seraph. If you can take him down the threat from the rest of the team drops dramatically.

[MitchellS]

Re: Crowns of Krim vs Justice Squadron

 

How are the Justice Squadron vis-a-vis Enhanced Senses and exotic Defenses?

Superstar has discriminatory spatial awareness.

Tomahawk has sight flash defense, nightvision, and a bunch of perception roll bonuses.

Flashover has sight flash defense and infrared.

The Drifter has the 150 pt vpp, so he has whatever he needs [as well as giving spells to anyone else who needs it].

Blink has a 50pt equipment vpp for stuff he keeps at the HQ.

 

Temblor can do 14d6 straight damage, or 10d6 Armor Piercing, albeit at a high END cost.

Yeah, I had forgotten this one.

 

And Damage Reduction does help the Crowns' Defense situation somewhat.

The damage ranges are fairly high for the JS. Brawler's doing 16d, Flashover can do up to 15d, Superstar up to 20d, Tomahawk up to 14d, Drifter, again, with his 150 pt vpp, and Blink it the weakest with assorted gadgets up to 50 ap.

 

In general, though, I've always thought the other Crowns are a little too inferior to Dark Seraph. If you can take him down the threat from the rest of the team drops dramatically.

Dark Seraph is the king of the hill but Drifter can handle him fairly easily. Drifter's FF even has power def built in. I agree that the other members should be beefed up a bit. The 5 Crowns are tough against 350 point heroes but against the other 5 members of the JS I don't see them winning.

[Guest Goradin]

Re: Crowns of Krim vs Justice Squadron

 

Drifter is a beast and Brawler is a Beast. I know Vanguard was dead but he was a beast. JS would own the Crowns and could beat them in perhaps one turn or less.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Crowns of Krim vs Justice Squadron

 

I wouldn't be so sure. The two biggest weaknesses the JS have:

 

1. Blink's most potent offensive options are useless against the Crowns ( they all have power defense )

 

2. Tomahawk takes double Stun from all non-Chippewa magic. . . which is everything the Crowns have basically

 

OTOH, all the Crowns take double damage from Holy attacks. . . and Tomahawk's hatchet is arguably that. Plus, Drifter should really be able to haul out such as well.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Crowns of Krim vs Justice Squadron

 

Sorry for the questions from a guy who hasn't gotten NOTW yet , but everyone's making a big deal over Drifter's VPP. What's he got outside of that that would affect how he uses it, e.g. END, SPD, CV?

[Metaphysician]

Re: Crowns of Krim vs Justice Squadron

 

Speed 5, IIRC. OCV somewhere around 11 with physical, 14 with mental. Not much END, but his powers are fueled by a 300 END reserve.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Crowns of Krim vs Justice Squadron

 

Ouch!

[MitchellS]

Re: Crowns of Krim vs Justice Squadron

 

1. Blink's most potent offensive options are useless against the Crowns ( they all have power defense )

Blink has the 50pt gadget pool which can be anything from t-porting back to the base and getting a bottle of chloriform to grabbing the +10d power gauntlet. Granted he's the weakest offensively but could be used creatively.

 

2. Tomahawk takes double Stun from all non-Chippewa magic. . . which is everything the Crowns have basically

While all of the Crowns have magic as their source few have magic as their special effect. Bloodstone's power is to manipulate blood, Eclipse controls shadows, and Temblor controls the earth so at least half of the group wouldn't do double damage to him.

[MitchellS]

Re: Crowns of Krim vs Justice Squadron

 

Ouch!

He also has force fields, damage reduction, full life support, and plenty of teleport and dimensional movement outside of his vpp to use as he needs it.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Crowns of Krim vs Justice Squadron

 

Blink has the 50pt gadget pool which can be anything from t-porting back to the base and getting a bottle of chloriform to grabbing the +10d power gauntlet. Granted he's the weakest offensively but could be used creatively.

 

 

While all of the Crowns have magic as their source few have magic as their special effect. Bloodstone's power is to manipulate blood, Eclipse controls shadows, and Temblor controls the earth so at least half of the group wouldn't do double damage to him.

 

Except they are controlling blood, shadows, or the earth via magic, so. . . Its a GM's call, but I don't like separating power source and power effect like that.

 

That said, if I used Tomahawk, the Vulnerability would be gone first thing. If he needs to be less resistant to non-Chippewa magic, give him some extra Armor and Power Defense only against Chippewa magic.

[MitchellS]

Re: Crowns of Krim vs Justice Squadron

 

Except they are controlling blood' date=' shadows, or the earth via magic, so. . . Its a GM's call, but I don't like separating power source and power effect like that.[/quote']

To me that's like saying Juggernaut's punch is magic just because he got his powers from the Cytorrak crystal. The members of the Crowns were transformed by the magic into what they are now much the same way Juggernaut was, IMO. I think it's important to separate the source in most cases [especially since magic is the source of virtually everything in the CU].

 

That said, if I used Tomahawk, the Vulnerability would be gone first thing. If he needs to be less resistant to non-Chippewa magic, give him some extra Armor and Power Defense only against Chippewa magic.

Yes, the character could use some tweaks [it seems like a lot of the characters' builds were rushed]. I'd probably keep the vulnerability but make it uncommon and only to American Indian magic.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Crowns of Krim vs Justice Squadron

 

Problem is, that doesn't make sense either. He's supposed to be a defender primarily *against* Native American evil spirits. Having him be vulnerable to all their powers, is kind of silly.

 

And, re: the Juggernaut, bad example. In the Juggernaut's case, the magic is effecting him. In the case of, say, Bloodstone, his magic is actively being used on the other guy's blood.

[MitchellS]

Re: Crowns of Krim vs Justice Squadron

 

Problem is' date=' that doesn't make sense either. He's supposed to be a defender primarily *against* Native American evil spirits. Having him be vulnerable to all their powers, is kind of silly.[/quote']

I personally think it's more heroic to be vulnerable to the things you are forced to fight rather then the things you normally don't.

 

And, re: the Juggernaut, bad example. In the Juggernaut's case, the magic is effecting him. In the case of, say, Bloodstone, his magic is actively being used on the other guy's blood.

IMO the magic is affecting the crowns in the same way. It's granting them abilities they wouldn't normally have. Still it's subjective and each gm must decide for themselves.

[Guest Goradin]

Re: Crowns of Krim vs Justice Squadron

 

One big AE dispel foci from Drifter and its all over but the crying for the CoK and I do think the JS guys could hold them off long enought for Drifter to do it.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Crowns of Krim vs Justice Squadron

 

One big AE dispel foci from Drifter and its all over but the crying for the CoK and I do think the JS guys could hold them off long enought for Drifter to do it.

 

Hmm... First off, even a 150-pt. VPP won't give you much of a Dispel if you're going to attack all magic powers at once, with AOE. That's +3 in Advantages right there. You can't really "dispel Foci"; the SFX need to be a little tighter. Second, Dispel would only shut off whatever active Powers the Crowns might have running at the time for one Phase at most. Since the crowns aren't Independent Foci they won't be permanently broken by even a successful Dispel. It would also be a GM judgement call as to whether the abilities that the villains have that aren't Focussed through their Crowns would be affected by a Dispel - they're more or less permanently transformed unless they choose to appear human.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Crowns of Krim vs Justice Squadron

 

Actually, I think you *are* allowed to define a narrow Dispel as "versus focus" essentially, or in this case, something like "any one black magic foci." And when used on a Focus, Dispel lasts 'until repaired.'

 

OTOH, I'd judge the Crowns to count as Indestructible Foci, which means they get a boatload of Power Defense free against such attacks.

 

A 12d6 Selective Area EB that inflicts Holy damage would probably be a better pick. Everybody except Dark Seraph will get Stunned by it. . . and even Dark Seraph has 50% chance of being Stunned.

[Guest Goradin]

Re: Crowns of Krim vs Justice Squadron

 

Your right, Mitch, that would be nasty.

[Vondy]

Re: Crowns of Krim vs Justice Squadron

 

I can't see the Crowns coming close to winning this one. Dark Seraph's the only character with an attack over 12d6 or decent defenses [Temblor has 30 but everyone else averages 23 or less].

 

I didn't say "Crowns."

[MitchellS]

Re: Crowns of Krim vs Justice Squadron

 

I didn't say "Crowns."

I know. I wasn't responding to you. I was responding to the OP.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Crowns of Krim vs Justice Squadron

 

I personally think it's more heroic to be vulnerable to the things you are forced to fight rather then the things you normally don't.

 

OTOH, its not heroic at all to get your ass kicked by those things you are specifically supposed to protect others against. Which is exactly what this would mean the first time he fought Baykok, thus leading to him never getting a rematch. . . because he'd be dead.

 

If the Dawn Fire Ritual added such a counterproductive weakness, than the Chippewa gods are thus remarkably sadistic jerks.

[MitchellS]

Re: Crowns of Krim vs Justice Squadron

 

OTOH' date=' its not heroic at all to get your ass kicked by those things you are specifically supposed to protect others against. Which is exactly what this would mean the first time he fought Baykok, thus leading to him never getting a rematch. . . because he'd be dead.[/quote']

Even without the vulnerability Tomahawk couldn't beat Baykok.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Crowns of Krim vs Justice Squadron

 

Actually, he stands a chance. Baykok has a 1.5x vulnerability to blessed weapons. . . like the Dawn Fire Hatchet. If he can get into melee range and land one blow, Baykok is quite thoroughly Stunned. It just becomes a question of whether he can do this or not.