[Character] Apex

[Killer Shrike]

Here is Checkmate's character for my next Champions campaign...APEX

 

Apex

 

And yes, I know that 10 points of Disads are missing...they are forthcoming.

[Cardinal]

Re: [Character] Apex

 

Nice starting empyrean brick.

 

For a normal CU campaign, the Speed might be a little low, but my memory, based on your posted comments, is that you run a relatively low Speed campaign so he should be fine.

 

What program do you use for the pictures? It has a DCAU/Timm vibe to it.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: [Character] Apex

 

Nice starting empyrean brick.

 

For a normal CU campaign, the Speed might be a little low, but my memory, based on your posted comments, is that you run a relatively low Speed campaign so he should be fine.

 

What program do you use for the pictures? It has a DCAU/Timm vibe to it.

 

The SPD is on par for my campaign.

 

I make the pictures in photoshop, using Timm style templates as a reference to get that "animated universe" look. Some I just use a template as is with a few detail changes, others I draft myself from scratch, and some are in between. Apex is based on a Superman template with only minor modifications.

 

From the same campaign, I had to make Makeshift's from scratch to get it to look like Ankylosaurs armor.

[Cardinal]

Re: [Character] Apex

 

The SPD is on par for my campaign.

 

I make the pictures in photoshop, using Timm style templates as a reference to get that "animated universe" look. Some I just use a template as is with a few detail changes, others I draft myself from scratch, and some are in between. Apex is based on a Superman template with only minor modifications.

 

From the same campaign, I had to make Makeshift's from scratch to get it to look like Ankylosaurs armor.

 

Good job on both. They look great.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: [Character] Apex

 

Good job on both. They look great.

 

Thanks for the feedback!

[Vorsch]

Re: [Character] Apex

 

Given your str i think your def is to low.

 

Str 70 brick with 20 def, 28 minimum, if only pd

 

Also hoist as a skill. never seen the skill used, i know your strong but its a supers universe i doubt your character is a "proffessional level" hoist expert

 

PS I like the character, totaly clean of abuse.

 

very refreshing

[Killer Shrike]

Re: [Character] Apex

 

Given your str i think your def is to low.

 

Str 70 brick with 20 def, 28 minimum, if only pd

 

A) I'm the GM. Checkmate is the player

 

The DEF is in line w/ the campaign, following the Standard Supers ability guidelines. The character can raise them with experience as the game progresses towards High Powered. The combination of CON, REC, STUN, and DEF makes this character very durable for a starting 350 point Standard Super.

 

Also hoist as a skill. never seen the skill used, i know your strong but its a supers universe i doubt your character is a "proffessional level" hoist expert

Hoist is in the Ultimate Brick. The character is smarter than average thanks to his Empyrean Package; Hoist is a very good way for him to reflect his smart-brickness in a mechanical way. Even a single point of extra STR for lifting thanks to a successful Hoist roll for this character works out to 87 extra tons, which is significant and a good way for the character to distinguish himself.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: [Character] Apex

 

We played the first couple of sessions (really one session broken up over two days) this weekend, and I'm happy to say that Apex proved to be a successful character. He had a rough trial by fire at the hands of an irritated VIPER 8 Team, and a (somewhat beefed up) Ogre & Lazer. Despite getting knocked out a few times, Apex kept recovering and stayed in the fight, demonstrating his might as well as his moxy.

 

VIPER and gang fled the scene with the McGuffin, but the rematch promises to be interesting.

[Checkmate]

Re: [Character] Apex

 

Honestly, I had some reservations about the 20 DEF's too. After playing him, I think if they were any higher he would really be a bit too effective for this level. His STUN and 20 REC really kept him in the fight. I mean segment 9 I did a move through and actually rolled some pretty good damage (only time that night) which took me to negative -6. My phase 12 action was to recover, which brought me to 14, then I got the post 12 recovery and I'm at 34, which, I believe is around where my partner Makeshift is when he's uninjured. 1 more recovery and I'm almost refreshed.

 

What also helped is Killer Shrike has a house rule that recoveries only due to negative STUN occur at REC intervals. For my character for example, when I'm negative 20 STUN I recover only post Segment 12, -40 I'm in GM discretion land.

 

Overall it was a good time. I had some trouble getting into character, my face to face RP muscles are a little rusty, but hopefully I'll figure it out.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: [Character] Apex

 

Honestly' date=' I had some reservations about the 20 DEF's too. After playing him, I think if they were any higher he would really be a bit too effective for this level. His STUN and 20 REC really kept him in the fight. I mean segment 9 I did a move through and actually rolled some pretty good damage (only time that night) which took me to negative -6. My phase 12 action was to recover, which brought me to 14, then I got the post 12 recovery and I'm at 34, which, I believe is around where my partner Makeshift is when he's uninjured. 1 more recovery and I'm almost refreshed.[/quote']

 

Ya, as I think you began to notice, Apex is very durable in the broader sense. He will get knocked around and take some STUN and rarely a little body, but he can soak it pretty easily, and come back swinging. Makes for a more tense, dramatic combat that replays well in memory than "never gets hurt guy".

 

What also helped is Killer Shrike has a house rule that recoveries only due to negative STUN occur at REC intervals. For my character for example, when I'm negative 20 STUN I recover only post Segment 12, -40 I'm in GM discretion land.

 

Actually its increments of your CON. So for your 30 CON character:

 

0 to -30: Every Phase and PS12

-31 to -60: PS12

-61 to -90: per Minute

-91+ GM's discretion

 

Which really didn't help you in this case save 1 time IIRC.

 

 

 

Overall it was a good time. I had some trouble getting into character, my face to face RP muscles are a little rusty, but hopefully I'll figure it out.

 

You did fine; your characterization will come up to speed with time and practice, and the other aspects of your game were solid.

[OzMike]

Re: [Character] Apex

 

I like the character - he's got plenty of room to grow and develop. Plus the 20 Def/30 CON combo is hard to beat - you fall down, but you always seem to get back up.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: [Character] Apex

 

I like the character - he's got plenty of room to grow and develop. Plus the 20 Def/30 CON combo is hard to beat - you fall down' date=' but you always seem to get back up.[/quote']

 

And a 20 REC. Even a little Regen. He's an Energizer Bunny.

 

 

Yeah, it will be interesting to see where Checkmate takes him. Does he invest in thick brickness, or does he leverage the Empyrean background to start picking up other Empyrean Packages?

 

Personally I'd like to see him develop his skills and background realization a bit, but then I always say that

[OzMike]

Re: [Character] Apex

 

Have had a better look now.

 

For that missing 10 pts of disads, how about something like Watched by Eidolon? He's found his son, but wants to watch how he develops. If the arrogance gets too much, he shows up to remind him who he should be.

 

I also think an interesting character development would be a nemesis, someone who is a negative reflection of himself (a Shazam/Black Adam thing).

 

I also think a good area for charcter development would be to gain a normal human mentor - maybe a martial artist sensei or old hero (Wildcat-like) type - who teaches him to fight smart.

[Checkmate]

Re: [Character] Apex

 

OzMike,

It's funny you mention that. I'm not sure if it comes across in the write up, but right now he's very much a kid. Good guys win, bad guys lose, he'll never get hurt, bad stuff just doesn't happen to him. He doesn't think much about the consequences of things. As he develops I'd like him to turn into a true self-sacrificing hero, but wanted something to be a catalyst for that change, maybe the aged mentor, with the negative reflection is the way to go. The aged mentor gives me a way to get the things I REALLY want for the character (now that I'm over the whole DEF thing) SKILL LEVELS

 

I think I tried the Hunted Eidolon but it got shot down. Right now it's 2d6 Unluck until we figure out something better.

 

As far as XP, short term I'm thinking Skill Levels (maybe a flight upgrade). Beyond that I really do want to discover being an Empyrean so Universal Translator and Contact are on the horizon.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: [Character] Apex

 

Yeah, I don't really want to work w/ Eidolon at this juncture, and at the very least can't see it as being in any way disadvantageous, so veto.

 

Also, the character is already sporting more than his share of Hunteds. VIPER alone is enough for now.

 

 

As far as making contact w/ the Empyreans and learning of his ancestry, etc etc...I really don't see that happening for at least a hundred points...somewhere in the 450 to 500 point range.

 

I want to see the character develop as a person FIRST, and then learn of his unusual ancestry. I don't want to risk the character's identity being too closely tied to his heritage. Also, I don't want to drag the campaign in that direction until the ground work has been laid a bit more solidly first for similar reasons. The campaign isn't "Apex the Empyrean and his superpals!".

 

The Empryean angle is to good to waste as a throw away in the opening acts; its best saved for a complicating new dimension once the stage has been set. When the time is right, Ill work it in to the story in a suitably impressive Shrikeian way, never fear.

[Cardinal]

Re: [Character] Apex

 

Honestly, I had some reservations about the 20 DEF's too. After playing him, I think if they were any higher he would really be a bit too effective for this level. His STUN and 20 REC really kept him in the fight. I mean segment 9 I did a move through and actually rolled some pretty good damage (only time that night) which took me to negative -6. My phase 12 action was to recover, which brought me to 14, then I got the post 12 recovery and I'm at 34, which, I believe is around where my partner Makeshift is when he's uninjured. 1 more recovery and I'm almost refreshed.

 

What also helped is Killer Shrike has a house rule that recoveries only due to negative STUN occur at REC intervals. For my character for example, when I'm negative 20 STUN I recover only post Segment 12, -40 I'm in GM discretion land.

 

Overall it was a good time. I had some trouble getting into character, my face to face RP muscles are a little rusty, but hopefully I'll figure it out.

 

 

Interesting to hear how it worked out. This seems to be a case where the lower speed world helps this particular type of build. When you are getting a PS12 recovery every 4 actions rather than one every 5 or 6, it increases the importance of Recovery.

 

Thanks for sharing your experience and good luck with the new character.

[Jalinth]

Re: [Character] Apex

 

First, I rather enjoyed reading the session summaries. I'm going to have to spend some serious time going over your site Killer Shrike.

 

I've read a number of Hero books, but just for the setting info. I've never really looked at the builds. Thinking that it would be worthwhile to attemp to grok the system, I created my first Hero system character tonight. I was going for a more or less generic brick. I am quite amused at how close he turned out to Apex in some ways. This leads me to belive that I managed to create a character that would be mechanically Viable in a Champions game.

 

My STR was only 60, my speed 6 and my body 30. However my Con, Int, Dex, Ego, Pre, PD/rPD and ED/rED were all the same. I didn't have any powers other the the DR and an extra 4" of running, instead going with some skills and some Karate.

 

I didn't reference any of the pre-gen characters while I was working (other to get Distinctive Features: Mutant from the Teen Heroes Book). I just sort of played things by feel and benchmarks.

 

I think my next step will be to test out the combat rules. Apex looks like he would be an good guy to trial run against.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: [Character] Apex

 

Yeah, bricks are pretty straightforward archetype to build. The real trick is to make sure that they each have something to make them a little different to avoid that "clone" feeling.

 

 

Your build sounds very viable to me, although I will point out that in a superheroic campaign BODY is much less important than in heroic campaigns since killing attacks tend to be rare. I've seen a number of supers with 10 BODY do just fine. However, there are foes that do use deadly attacks, and also it figures for some STUN, so a 30 BODY isn't a total waste either. Particularly if you are playing a more Iron Age oriented campaign where people try to kill each other regularly.

 

 

Glad you like the site, There's a lot of stuff out there if you take the time to explore the various sub sites.

 

Im also chipping away at the write up for Session 3 and should have it posted soon.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: [Character] Apex

 

I like the SPD control you keep for your games KS. It seems as though you can have many different levels of speedster and martial artists instead of the 3 or 4 spaces between 5-8 SPD in most games. This and all the other characters you have posted recently really stick to this theme which is good imo. Excellent concepts as well. Apex seems simple on the surface but as Checkmate points out, his high REC can really make up for his rather un-brick like 20 defenses.

 

I've built most of my posted characters in a vacuum of sorts since I am not running or playing in a HERO game of any kind at the moment. I try to keep close to the published CU power levels which is a little too vanilla at times.

[Checkmate]

Re: [Character] Apex

 

First, I rather enjoyed reading the session summaries. I'm going to have to spend some serious time going over your site Killer Shrike.

 

I've read a number of Hero books, but just for the setting info. I've never really looked at the builds. Thinking that it would be worthwhile to attemp to grok the system, I created my first Hero system character tonight. I was going for a more or less generic brick. I am quite amused at how close he turned out to Apex in some ways. This leads me to belive that I managed to create a character that would be mechanically Viable in a Champions game.

 

My STR was only 60, my speed 6 and my body 30. However my Con, Int, Dex, Ego, Pre, PD/rPD and ED/rED were all the same. I didn't have any powers other the the DR and an extra 4" of running, instead going with some skills and some Karate.

 

I didn't reference any of the pre-gen characters while I was working (other to get Distinctive Features: Mutant from the Teen Heroes Book). I just sort of played things by feel and benchmarks.

 

I think my next step will be to test out the combat rules. Apex looks like he would be an good guy to trial run against.

You're character will probably slaughter Apex, especially in a steel cage match. If I were to play him against you (or a friend that really wanted to win ) and we were in an open area where his maneuverability could be used, it would be a lot closer. You're 6 SPD provides a significant advantage.

 

Speaking of maneuverability, I'm trying to decide where to put his XP first. The team is a bit lacking in mobility, so I know it's going into his flight, I'm just not sure how I want to do it. Here are the ways I'm thinking about going assuming I save until I have 10 XP:

 

1. Position shift. Being an up front fighter, and he makes himself a huge target, so he gets knocked on his butt a lot. Not being the acrobatic sort, Breakfall doesn't really fit as much. The other side is that with his Variable Advantage on his fight, he can always take No Turn Radius, to mitigate this somewhat.

 

2. I could simply add 3" to the flight. This would give me another 2" half move (7" half move up from 5"). Eventually this will be 15" of flight, I'm just not sure if I want to go there first (although it is the front runner in my mind right now)

 

3. This is really a two parter, which all stems from I hate the gravity penalty (not hate it as in it shouldn't be part of the game, but hate it as in, it hinders my character ). Two ways to get rid of it

a. I could simply buy No Gravity Penalty +1/2 Simple, easy, effective and even makes sense since he flies by manipulating gravitons (I'm not making this up, it's really in the Empyrean package deal).

b. I could raise his Variable Advantage to +1/2 for an advantage total of +1. This would allow me to add No Grav Penalty to his flight when I wanted it. It would also allow me to say, use No Turn Modifier and Combat Acceleration together. The downside is that it would also mean that I couldn't use No Grav and Combat Accel or No Turn Mod, that I would be able to do with the option a.

 

Now all of this is, of course, contingent on GM approval (who I'm sure will chime in ), but assuming he approves any plan (pipe dream I know, but let's pretend) which would you do?

[Killer Shrike]

Re: [Character] Apex

 

I've been operating under the assumption that you would build on the flight, and all of those are valid approaches.

 

 

As an aside you can take Furnace as a Rival for 10 points. If you check the Champions forum you'll see the 1st pass on him, sans picture.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: [Character] Apex

 

I like the SPD control you keep for your games KS. It seems as though you can have many different levels of speedster and martial artists instead of the 3 or 4 spaces between 5-8 SPD in most games. This and all the other characters you have posted recently really stick to this theme which is good imo. Excellent concepts as well. Apex seems simple on the surface but as Checkmate points out, his high REC can really make up for his rather un-brick like 20 defenses.

 

I've built most of my posted characters in a vacuum of sorts since I am not running or playing in a HERO game of any kind at the moment. I try to keep close to the published CU power levels which is a little too vanilla at times.

Yeah, I've tried it across the gamut over the years, and have found from personal experience that the game works better if a tight rein is kept on DEX, SPD, and Defenses and have been very successful in several Champions campaigns and to a lesser extent in many campaigns in other genres (lesser extent in the sense that the range of stats in non supers games is usually lower any way so its not as prevalent of a factor) wherein I kept a tight rein on it.

 

It accomplishes a slew of useful things in its own right, but additionally it takes pressure off of players designing their characters to practically have to dump 50+ points into SPD just to be competitive and to stretch SFX to cover having superhuman quickness (unless of course you're in a group that ignores SFX and just power games).

 

Since everything is relative between antags and protags any way, if practically everyone has a 6 SPD +/- 1 in a 350 point campaign, then its really more like a 300 point campaign in which normals are functionally useless but supers are not effectively any quicker relative to each other than they would be if practically everyone had a 4 SPD +/- 1.

 

 

When I first started with the HERO System...in fact probably for the first 8 years or so I played it, I didn't have a big problem with inflated stats. If some is good, more must be better right?

 

But over time it began to dawn on my that inflated stats can have a much more detrimental than positive effect on a game when take as a whole. While there are many, often subtle, issues they can cause, the major killer for me is how deadlocked and / or rock-paper-scissor fights among characters with inflated stats become. The combat between Takes 12 Actions Guy and Takes No Damage Guy is cute the first time, but very tiresome thereafter. The fight between Punch Force Measured In KiloTons guy and My DEX Is So High My Raw Figured SPD Excceds 12 Guy is only slightly less yawn inducing than NightQuil. There's no real tension or sense of dramatic conflict, theres just a bunch of nigh Unstoppable Force Immoveable Object conundrums to solve when two overbloated titans fight.

 

 

Also, I have to wonder if people actually read the published HERO books. DOJ has done a pretty consistent job of adhering to their recommended guidelines, with limited exceptions.

 

Flip open the back of CKC and check out the listed DEFs for the villains in the book. Granted, a few have ancillary abilities like Damage Reduction that isnt reflected, but DEF floats in the same 15 to 30 range with 40 as uber tough, and most people in the 20's.

 

The SPD's listed in CKC are a smidgen higher than the range I use, but not too much so, and taking into account the point levels of many of the characters that have egregious SPD its actually very close in general.

 

 

I think the problem is most people were used to the inflated 4th Edition and never adjusted or reevaluated their practice for 5th Edition so they think a 20 Def is low when its actually average to high average for a broad point strata.

 

Any way, enough philosophizing...time for bed...thanks for the feed back, Im glad you appreciate the deflation -- i get tired of arguing about it sometimes and its refreshing to not have to