The Autofire Attack part of a Sweep Misses -- Now What?

[Oruncrest]

A little background: I've just created a nasty villainess based on the Marilith from AD&D (6ix arms, snakes body,ignores physical & most magical damage, ect) to see how effective she would be against a team of superheroes. To make things even harder for the heroes, I gave her some nasty weapons, including a weapon that not only enables her to strike first so long as her first attack is with this particular blade (+30 Lightning Reflexes), but automatically gives her a second attack (Autofire:2 shots). And here's where my problem lies.

 

In my playtest, the Marilith struck out at the Team Brick with a sweep attack (she can do it too, she's got +11 w/all Combat and +6 w/blades), starting with the sword mentioned above, followed by 5 more attacks with other swords. fhe first attack succeeds, but the second (autofire) part missed.

 

How do I resolve the rest of the Sweep Attack? Do the following attacks automatically fail because the af part of the first attack missed? Do I continue her attack because the af portion wasn't resolved through an independent attack roll like the first (and following) attack(s)? Any Ideas?

[Comic]

Re: The Autofire Attack part of a Sweep Misses -- Now What?

 

Erm.. I'm not sure if I follow.

 

Your Marilith has six different attack actions each with a different effect per phase?

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: The Autofire Attack part of a Sweep Misses -- Now What?

 

 

How do I resolve the rest of the Sweep Attack? Do the following attacks automatically fail because the af part of the first attack missed?

 

That is a good question. I'll go through the FAQ and see. My gut instinct is that no, it doesn't end the sweep, because you made the base single attack with the autofire- the rest of the autofire hits are just gravy.

 

The rules for Rapid Autofire on Page 50 seem to imply that if the rest of the autofire shots miss, you can still make more Rapid attacks.

 

Note that the Rapid Autofire skill is required for anyone making Autofire attacks with Sweep.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: The Autofire Attack part of a Sweep Misses -- Now What?

 

I agree with LM - as long as the first attack in the autofire series hits, the Sweep is not disrupted.

 

Given a special skill is required to use Rapid Fire with Autofire attacks, I would require the same skill to use Sweep with that Autofire attack.

 

As well, Lightning Reflexes purchased for only one attak should not allow other attacks to move sooner. Consistent with the rule that a Sweep takes the worst modifier of all attacks included in the Sweep, I would rule that the character must move at normal DEX order, without the LR bonus, if she wants to include attacks with which she lacks LR.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: The Autofire Attack part of a Sweep Misses -- Now What?

 

Given a special skill is required to use Rapid Fire with Autofire attacks, I would require the same skill to use Sweep with that Autofire attack.

 

I actually says that in the combat handbook too.

[Oruncrest]

Re: The Autofire Attack part of a Sweep Misses -- Now What?

 

Erm.. I'm not sure if I follow.

 

Your Marilith has six different attack actions each with a different effect per phase?

 

Yes. To give you a better idea of what I mean, let's pit her in battle with, say, Ironclad (he's good to skewer).

 

The Marilith has 6 swords: the Sword of Quickness (to get in the first strike plus a second attack), a Vorpal Blade (for crippling and beheading her opponents), A Nine Lives Stealer (to steal her opponents' souls, but since she 'acquired' it 'used', she's cautious about using it's special ability), a Mage Killer Sword (because her nemesis is a Wizard), a Dancing Sword (to give them pesky flying SOBs something to occupy their time), and an Axe of Hurling (to take proper advantage of any fliers that are preoccupied by her Dancing Sword). The Marilith has 20 DEX (for a base 7 OCV), +6 with all blades, and +11 with all combat, and the swords each have one or more 5pt. levels, so her maximum OCV with each weapon (and she placed all her levels into OCV so she can slaughter Ironclad quickly) is:

 

SoQ: 26

VB: 29

NLS: 26

MKS: 25 (26 vs spellcasters)

DS: 27

AoH: 23 (since her sword bonuses don't apply)

 

Ironclad has placed all his CSLs into his DCV, cause he's starting out his phase by Finding Weakness. His DCV is 11.

 

The Marilith makes a Sweep Attack using her swords. She's got all the requisite skills (Rapid Attack (HTH), Ambidexterity, Two-Weapon Fighting, Rapid Autofire, ect.), so the only overall OCV penalties she suffers is the -8 from the 5 extra attacks (with the penaties for one attack negated by 2-w fighting). She starts out with the SoQ (she has to, in order to get the Lightning Reflex bonus from the sword), then goes for a leg shot (using the Special Hit Locations on pg 415 of the revised HSR, also, the Marilith thinks that Ironclad is an Iron Golem, so she's trying to immobilize 'it', if she knew he was alive, she'd be making a high shot) with her VB, then regular strikes with the rest of her weapons. After adjusting for the new OCV penalties, her OCV for each attack on Ironclad is now:

 

SoQ: 14 (the extra autofire attack has an effective OCV of 16)

VB: 17

NLS: 14

MKS: 13

DS: 15

AoH: 11

 

If all that hit, then Ironclad would quicly find himself unconscious and missing his right leg. However, the Marilith's attack with the SoQ was nearly disastrous: a 14! So the first attack hit, but the autofire part was, technically, a miss. the Attack Roll for the VB was a 10, so that hit...

 

...but that technical miss has been nagging at me, saying that I should've stopped the attack sequence before the VB Roll because the autofire portion of the Marilith's first attack missed, even though she didn't make a 'real' attack roll with the attack. Lord Mhoram & Hugh Neilson's replies have helped to convince me that a sweep sequence should only be stopped by an actual missed attack roll, however, so I can get on with gutting Ironclad without feeling anymore guilt.

[Oruncrest]

Re: The Autofire Attack part of a Sweep Misses -- Now What?

 

I agree with LM - as long as the first attack in the autofire series hits, the Sweep is not disrupted.

 

Given a special skill is required to use Rapid Fire with Autofire attacks, I would require the same skill to use Sweep with that Autofire attack.

 

As well, Lightning Reflexes purchased for only one attak should not allow other attacks to move sooner. Consistent with the rule that a Sweep takes the worst modifier of all attacks included in the Sweep, I would rule that the character must move at normal DEX order, without the LR bonus, if she wants to include attacks with which she lacks LR.

She's got all the required skills, thanks.

 

and the Sword of Quickness provides an initiative bonus to all her attack (and movement) provided that she uses the SoQ to attack first (-1 because she'd be stupid not to use it first, and it's nearly impossible to get out of her hand).

[Comic]

Re: The Autofire Attack part of a Sweep Misses -- Now What?

 

I'd really consider the point moot.

 

You haven't mentioned the damage each of these weapons does, but I doubt any would be 'low damage weapons,'

 

You've also described the Marilith as virtually invulnerable, so unless Ironclad's extremely lucky, he's going down next phase, considering she's throwing what sounds like more than enough to do the job.

 

As for does the attack sequence end on the first miss? That's always been the way I've done it and seen it done. You're the GM, and this is an extremely special creature, apparently, so up to you, I suppose.

 

Personally, my characters ever see something like that, they'll flee first, make up excuses later.

[Oruncrest]

Re: The Autofire Attack part of a Sweep Misses -- Now What?

 

The lethality of the weapons ranged from 2D6-1 HKA (the Mage Killer) to 2D6+1 HKA (the Vorpal Blade & Sword of Quickness). The Marilith herself has a STR of 40, so full damage ranged from 3D6+1 KA to 5D6-1 KA.

 

And you're right that Ironclad doesn't stand much of a chance against her, but I simply chose him as a placeholder. the Brick I created her to fight is a lot tougher, and a better fighter to boot. Sadly, this fight still ends too quickly; if she doesn't cut off his head on phase 12, he knocks her prone that phase, then on phase 2, dope slaps her in the face (7D6 NND vs. Solid Armor, Resistance, or FF) stunning her. Then he dope slaps her again before she can recover, knocking her unconscious. As you can tell, I've still got some tweaking to do.