A Question About Linking Powers

[Corven_Ren]

Is it legal to link a mulitpower to a power outside the multipower. Such as this.

 

Cost Powers END

50 Gigantic Size: Growth (+40 STR, +8 BODY, +8 STUN, -8" KB, 25,600 kg, -4 DCV, +4 PER Rolls to perceive character, 8 m tall, 4 m wide), Costs END Only To Activate (+1/4) (50 Active Points) 4

 

55 Gigantic Attacks: Multipower, 55-point reserve

4u 1) Big Fist: Area Of Effect (up to One Hex; +1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2); Linked (Gigantic Size; Lesser Power can only be used when character uses greater Power at full value; -1/2) for up to 65 Active Points of STR (43 Active Points)

5u 2) Big Boot: Area Of Effect (up to One Hex; +1/2), Double Knockback (+3/4); Linked (Gigantic Size; Lesser Power can only be used when character uses greater Power at full value; -1/2) for up to 65 Active Points of STR (54 Active Points) 5

[Hyper-Man]

Re: A Question About Linking Powers

 

Sure. (edit: wrong!)

 

A better way to think of it is that you're linking every slot in the multipower to the outside power. Any Limitation that's applied to every slot can then be applied to the reserve.

 

Note that you can also apply limitations to the reserve of a multipower that do not apply to the individual slots. But that wouldn't work for linking since it has to affect individual powers.

[Corven_Ren]

Re: A Question About Linking Powers

 

Thanks I was tweaking a character for a pbem game and shaved of points by puting his attacks in a mp. One of the other potential players thought that it was illegal. I was pretty sure it was not but thought I would ask.

[Doc Samson]

Re: A Question About Linking Powers

 

As Hyper is one of my heroes, I disagree with the utmost respect. It is not legal in 5ER (5ER pg. 311, under Power Frameworks in the section entitled Linked), though I am not sure if it was legal in previous editions.

A character cannot © link an entire power framework (or more than one slot in a framework) to a power outside a framework, a slot in another framework, or another framework, or

[Hyper-Man]

Re: A Question About Linking Powers

 

As Hyper is one of my heroes' date=' I disagree with the utmost respect. It is not legal in 5ER (5ER pg. 311, under Power Frameworks in the section entitled Linked), though I am not sure if it was legal in previous editions.[/quote']

 

That's what I get for answering a question off the top of my head instead of looking it up.

 

Thanks for the catch. Sorry Corven_Ren.

[Sean Waters]

Re: A Question About Linking Powers

 

The rules about frameworks are going to be one of the first sections against the wall come the revolution.

 

Although it is quite, quite wrong to do this, I really cannot see what abuse this rule is meant to address and I would probably allow it. What you are doing, in effect, if making the entire framework drainable by draining your growth.

 

Given that you normally have to drain EACH SLOT in a MP to reduce the whole thing, this seems like a serious limitation worth -1/2.

 

In addition, of course, and quite logically, you can only use the powers when you are huge, which is a limtiation in and of itself.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: A Question About Linking Powers

 

The rules about frameworks are going to be one of the first sections against the wall come the revolution.

 

Although it is quite, quite wrong to do this, I really cannot see what abuse this rule is meant to address and I would probably allow it. What you are doing, in effect, if making the entire framework drainable by draining your growth.

 

Given that you normally have to drain EACH SLOT in a MP to reduce the whole thing, this seems like a serious limitation worth -1/2.

 

In addition, of course, and quite logically, you can only use the powers when you are huge, which is a limtiation in and of itself.

Abso-flippin-lutely! There's nothing abusive about this build. You could be in an area where you can't Grow (such as indoors with a normal-height ceiling), in which case you couldn't use the framework.

 

If someone really wants to be anal about it, don't call it "linked". Instead, just call it, "Multipower doesn't work when not at full-growth size" -1/2.

[Doc Samson]

Re: A Question About Linking Powers

 

I hate to be the bearer of bad news yet again, but this build is illegal even if you allow the Linked. Unless I am misreading, his multipower is made up of Naked Advantages (and not actual STR).

From 5ER pg. 244 Naked Power Advantages (repeated on pg. 311 under Restrictions On Slot Purchases)

Naked Power Advantages are considered Special Powers (and therefore may not be bought in Power Frameworks without the GMs permission).

It also looks like the advantages don't cover his base 10 STR (the MP is only 55 pts.). As always the GM can allow anything he wants, but this is too much handwaving for me.

[Doc Samson]

Re: A Question About Linking Powers

 

As far as the issue of why Linked is so restricted in regards to Frameworks, I think the big culprit may be Elemental Control. Unlike MPs and VPPs which have a common restriction in that the pool points must be divided among slots, an Elemental Control is pretty much free points for powers with a common SFX (which you were probably going to buy anyway). Allowing the whole Framework to be Linked on top of this bonus would shave the costs of powers down to a fraction. Elemental Controls already include the drawback that the whole Framework is affected by Adjustment Powers, so in that respect Linked is redundant. Please note that powers that share a slot of an Elemental Control can be Linked together and any number of Powers (or Characteristics for that matter) can be Linked to a Slot in an Elemental Control. I think I explained this poorly so basically what I am saying is that Elemental Controls are already a large point savings even without Linked.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: A Question About Linking Powers

 

It also looks like the advantages don't cover his base 10 STR (the MP is only 55 pts.).

Good catch! I didn't notice that.

 

Corven_Ren - You will need to increase the reserve slightly to cover your base 10 STR that you have before you grow (or else limit the Advantage effects to just the +40 you get from the Growth.

 

For an advantage to apply to all of your STR, it needs to be bought for the entire STR points, not just the points about the base value of 10. A character with AE 1 Hex on his base 10 STR needs to pay 5 points for the +1/2 Advantage, for example.

 

As far as the issue of why Linked is so restricted in regards to Frameworks, I think the big culprit may be Elemental Control. Unlike MPs and VPPs which have a common restriction in that the pool points must be divided among slots, an Elemental Control is pretty much free points for powers with a common SFX (which you were probably going to buy anyway). Allowing the whole Framework to be Linked on top of this bonus would shave the costs of powers down to a fraction. Elemental Controls already include the drawback that the whole Framework is affected by Adjustment Powers, so in that respect Linked is redundant. Please note that powers that share a slot of an Elemental Control can be Linked together and any number of Powers (or Characteristics for that matter) can be Linked to a Slot in an Elemental Control. I think I explained this poorly so basically what I am saying is that Elemental Controls are already a large point savings even without Linked.

Good point. ECs have a number of problems (that I've seen brought up on these boards a lot lately). There are a number of official rules that say, "You can't do X with Frameworks." But in most cases, it would be perfectly fine (non-abusive) to say, "You can't do X with Elemental Controls, but you can with other Frameworks."

 

Hmmm... Off hand, I don't see any problem with Linked, even with an EC. After all, it really is a meaningful limitation. Why shouldn't you be allowed the appropriate discount?

[Corven_Ren]

Re: A Question About Linking Powers

 

Thanks everyone. I don't currently have access to my 5er so I could not looked it up. I built the character with hero designer and no red flags popped up so I figured it was ok. Seeing as the char is for a PBEM game I have sent an e-mail to the gm saying the build is illegal and I will rebuild him. I only threw them in a MP to save points I probably will just drop them now as I wont have enough to use them.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: A Question About Linking Powers

 

Thanks everyone. I don't currently have access to my 5er so I could not looked it up. I built the character with hero designer and no red flags popped up so I figured it was ok. Seeing as the char is for a PBEM game I have sent an e-mail to the gm saying the build is illegal and I will rebuild him. I only threw them in a MP to save points I probably will just drop them now as I wont have enough to use them.

 

Here is a legal alternative to the Multipower on the about the same points (it requires the character to have an appropriate skill for RSR).

 

50 Gigantic Size: Growth (+40 STR, +8 BODY, +8 STUN, -8" KB, 25,082 kg, -4 DCV, +4 PER Rolls to perceive character, 8 m tall, 4 m wide), Costs END Only To Activate (+1/4) (50 Active Points) - END=4

 

65 Gigantic Attacks: Area Of Effect (up to One Hex; +1/2), Variable Advantage (+3/4 Advantages; Limited Group of Advantages; Indirect (Same origin, always fired away from attacker; +1/4) plus Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) or Double Knockback (+3/4); +1 1/4) for up to 65 Active Points of STR (114 Active Points); Linked (Gigantic Size; Lesser Power can only be used when character uses greater Power at full value; Lesser Instant Power can be used in any Phase in which greater Constant Power is in use; -1/4), Requires A Skill Roll (Active Point penalty to Skill Roll is -1 per 20 Active Points; -1/4), Concentration (1/2 DCV; -1/4) - END=11

 

The Indirect could represent the mass of impact when used.

 

65 Gigantic Attacks (alternative): Variable Advantage (+3/4 Advantages; Limited Group of Advantages; Area Of Affect (up to One Hex; +1/2) plus Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4) or Double Knockback (+3/4); +1 1/4) for up to 65 Active Points of STR (81 Active Points); Linked (Gigantic Size; Lesser Power can only be used when character uses greater Power at full value; Lesser Instant Power can be used in any Phase in which greater Constant Power is in use; -1/4) - END=8

 

65 Gigantic Attacks (alternative 2): Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Variable Advantage (+1/2 Advantages; Limited Group of Advantages; Does x1 1/2 Knockback (+1/2), Area Of Effect (One Hex; +1/2); +3/4) for up to 65 Active Points of STR (81 Active Points); Linked (Gigantic Size; Lesser Power can only be used when character uses greater Power at full value; Lesser Instant Power can be used in any Phase in which greater Constant Power is in use; -1/4) - END=0

[Corven_Ren]

Re: A Question About Linking Powers

 

65 Gigantic Attacks (alternative): Variable Advantage (+3/4 Advantages; Limited Group of Advantages; Area Of Affect (up to One Hex; +1/2) plus Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4) or Double Knockback (+3/4); +1 1/4) for up to 65 Active Points of STR (81 Active Points); Linked (Gigantic Size; Lesser Power can only be used when character uses greater Power at full value; Lesser Instant Power can be used in any Phase in which greater Constant Power is in use; -1/4) - END=8

 

 

I think I will use this one...how did you build that is it a naked modifer? (Just another note his base str without growth is 20 so its 60 total with his growth on)

[Hyper-Man]

Re: A Question About Linking Powers

 

I think I will use this one...how did you build that is it a naked modifer? (Just another note his base str without growth is 20 so its 60 total with his growth on)

 

Yes. So you could shave a few more points off then. But note the 8 END cost of the Naked Advantage itself. That's why I built alternative 2.

[Corven_Ren]

Re: A Question About Linking Powers

 

Ok thanks Hyper Man I may use alternative 2

[Corven_Ren]

Re: A Question About Linking Powers

 

So Hyperman ALternative 2 should look like this right

 

 

65 Gigantic Attacks: Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Variable Advantage (+1/2 Advantages; Limited Group of Advantages; +3/4); Linked (Gigantic Size; Lesser Power can only be used when character uses greater Power at full value; Lesser Instant Power can be used in any Phase in which greater Constant Power is in use; -1/4) for up to 65 Active Points of STR

 

Now If I pay 5 points less for that will it cover my base 20 str + the 40 from growth? Was just wondering since he only has a 60 str

[Hyper-Man]

Re: A Question About Linking Powers

 

Ok thanks Hyper Man I may use alternative 2

 

Cool.

 

FYI, I imagined the difference between the x1 1/2 KB and AOE 1 hex as a giant finger flick vs. a giant hand swat.

[Corven_Ren]

Re: A Question About Linking Powers

 

Actuall the AoE is a giant fist kind of the way Giant Man did to Hulk in Ultimate Avengers and the extra KB is a gigantic field goal kick. Thanks for all your help hyper man

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: A Question About Linking Powers

 

Here is a legal alternative to the Multipower on the about the same points (it requires the character to have an appropriate skill for RSR).

 

If the character has no appropriate skill, he could always put an activation roll on the power (sometimes the opponent is able to slip between his massive fingers) for similar effect.