Spell Law and the Fire Law example

[azato]

Finding a magic system that I like has been hard. I like the idea of progression in that a caster starts out at a low level of proficiency and works his way up. For that reason Spell Law is great. I also like the concept of buying into various lists or laws. This means one can be very proficient in a very few lists or be just OK in a lot of lists.

 

What I don't like about Spell Law is that there are only a few spells in each list and that the spells often are WORTHLESS for many of the lists

 

Here is what I did - I tried to convert many of the spells from from Spell Fire Law. Next I gleaned fire spells from the various grimoirs and came up with the following basic list.

 

Here is the paradigm that I have come up with. It has not been tested and ***I look forward to your input****.

 

Magic:

1. All essence magic is purchased as a Multi-Power

2. All spells are purchased as Ultras

3. There spells are designated as levels and they follow this pattern:

a. LEVEL 1 1-29 AP

b. LEVEL 2 30-59 AP

c. LEVEL 3 60-89 AP etc.

 

4. A caster cannot have more spells of a higher level than she does of a lower. You cannot have more level 2 spells than you do of level one spells. You cannot have more level 3 spells than you do level 2 spells.

 

5. Spells must take incantation and magic roll. They cannot take gestures and foci

 

6. A spell caster MAY if he chooses to buy an extra 1/2 of his multi-power with a OAF focus. For example: If he has a 60 pt multipower with magic roll and incantations, he can buy another 30 pts multi-power with OAF, magic roll and incantations. SPELLS MAY NOT BE BOUGHT THIS WAY. Thus the loss of a magic staff decreases the power of the wizard.

 

7. Spells must be purchased off the list.

 

8. MAYBE - A manna pool must be purchased to power all spells.

 

 

LEVEL 1 (up to 1-29 pts)

 

1. Boil Liquid

a. Transform Minor 2d6 Water to Boiling Water (20pts) (20 AP)

i. Limited Target: Liquid (-1)

ii. Magic Roll (-1/2)

iii. Incantation (-1/4)

 

2. Flaming Weapon

a. Killing Blow +1d6 (9 pts) (22 AP)

i. Usable by others Simultaneously (+1/2)

ii. Ranged (+1/2)

iii. Uncontrolled (+1/2)

iv. Costs END each phase (-1/2)

v. Magic Roll (-1/2)

vi. Incantation (-1/4)

 

3. Warm Solid

a. Transform Minor 2d6 Object to heated object (20pts)

i. Limited Target: Non-metallic object (-1)

ii. Magic Roll (-1/2)

iii. Incantation (-1/4)

 

4. Wood Fire

a. Transform Minor 2d6 Flammable object to Burning object (20pts)

i. Limited Target: Flammable object (-1)

ii. Magic Roll (-1/2)

iii. Incantation (-1/4)

 

5. Heat Solid

a. Transform Minor 2d6 Object to heated object (20pts)

i. Limited Target: Non-metallic object/non-living (-1)

ii. Magic Roll (-1/2)

iii. Incantation (-1/4)

iv. Incantation (-1/4)

 

6. Fire Scrying

a. Clairsentience sight

i. Concentrate throughout (-1)

ii. The target must be near a fire source (-1)

iii. Magic Roll (-1/2)

iv. Incantation (-1/4)

 

7. Fire Find

a. Detect Fire (Int, non sense gp) (29 AP)

i. Magic Roll (-1/2)

ii. Costs End throughout (-1/2)

iii. Incantation (-1/4)

 

8. Obscuring Smoke

a. Change environment -3 sight (18 pts) (31 AP)

i. Increased Radius 8” (+3/4)

ii. Magic Roll (-1/2)

iii. Incantation (-1/4)

 

 

 

LEVEL 2 (30 to 59 AP)

 

 

9. Wall of Fire

a. RKA 1d6 (15 pts) (45 AP)

i. AOE 4” line (+1)

ii. Continuous (+1)

iii. Magic Roll (-1/2)

iv. Incantation (-1/4)

 

10. Fire Bolt I

a. RKA 2d6 (30 pts)

i. Magic Roll (-1/2)

ii. Incantation (-1/4)

 

11. Fire Bolt II

a. (55 AP)

b. RKA 3d6 (45 pts)

i. Magic Roll (-1/2)

ii. Incantation (-1/4)

c. +5 CSL Fire Bolt (10 pts)

i. Linked (-1/4)

ii. Cost End (-1/4)

iii. Magic Roll (-1/2)

iv. Incantation (-1/4)

 

12. Faerie Flame

a. Images sight group +4 Per (22 pts) (38 AP)

i. Increase size 2” (+1/4)

ii. Uncontrolled (until dispelled) (+1/2)

iii. Magic Roll (-1/2)

iv. Incantation (-1/4)

 

 

13. Call Fire

a. RKA 1d6+1 (20 pts) (55 AP)

i. AOE 2” (+3/4)

ii. Continuous (+1)

iii. Magic Roll (-1/2)

iv. Incantation (-1/4)

 

14. Flaming Aura

a. RKA 1d6 (15pts) (45 AP)

i. AP (+1/2)

ii. Damage Shield (+1/2)

iii. Continuous (+1)

iv. Magic Roll (-1/2)

v. Incantation (-1/4)

 

15. Quench Flame I

a. Dispel 12d6 fire (36pts) (45 AP)

i. Any fire power 1 at a time (+1/4)

ii. Magic Roll (-1/2)

iii. Incantation (-1/4)

 

16. Pathway of fire

a. Teleport 20” (40 pts) (40 AP)

i. Only from one fire to another (-1)

ii. Magic Roll (-1/2)

iii. Incantation (-1/4) Waiting Flame

 

Level 3 (60 to 89 AP)

 

17. RKA 1d6+1 (20 pts) (60 AP)

a. AOE 2” (+3/4)

b. Continuous (+1)

c. Trigger (+1/4)

d. Magic Roll (-1/2)

 

18. Quench Flame II

a. Dispel 16d6 fire (48 pts) (60 AP)

i. Any fire power 1 at a time (+1/4)

ii. Magic Roll (-1/2)

iii. Incantation (-1/4)

 

19. Firestorm

a. RKA 2d6 (30 pts) (60 AP)

i. AE 2” (+3/4)

ii. Indirect Always from above (+1/4)

iii. Magic Roll (-1/2)

iv. Incantation (-1/4)

 

20. Circle Aflame

a. RKA 1d6+1 (20 pts) (60 AP)

i. AOE Circle 8” (+1))

ii. Continuous (+1)

iii. No Range (-??)

iv. Magic Roll (-1/2)

v. Incantation (-1/4)

 

21. Fire Ball

a. RKA 2d6 (30 pts) (60 AP)

i. AOE 6” (+1)

ii. Magic Roll (-1/2)

iii. Incantation (-1/4)

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Spell Law and the Fire Law example

 

Gurgle. No offense but my brain melted a while ago... does that when I'm not totally following something. I can only digest so many mechanics at once (unless I'm designing them). ANYWAY.

 

The best way to simulate this in HERO can be found either on Killer Shrike's website, or my own extensive notes in the Sor/Wiz 3.5 Conversion Thread & Cleric Conversion Thread.

 

Simply put; i took Wizard magic and converted it to HERO. In that process, I retained the premise of "Schools of Magic." I then attached a Skill Roll to every single one, and the roll to the school. So you can learn Conjuration Magic and it's fundamentally different from learning Evocation. And, according to the rules system, you can purchase a "Master Skill" level (all schools) or a group of schools, etc.

 

If you want to force people to pay for access to individual levels of magic, you can do that. It's really a matter of choice as to how you want to approach it. Make them burn points on Talents (1/3/5 pt Talents or Perquisites to learn certain levels). And so on.

[azato]

Re: Spell Law and the Fire Law example

 

Gurgle. No offense but my brain melted a while ago... does that when I'm not totally following something. I can only digest so many mechanics at once (unless I'm designing them). ANYWAY.

 

The best way to simulate this in HERO can be found either on Killer Shrike's website, or my own extensive notes in the Sor/Wiz 3.5 Conversion Thread & Cleric Conversion Thread.

 

Simply put; i took Wizard magic and converted it to HERO. In that process, I retained the premise of "Schools of Magic." I then attached a Skill Roll to every single one, and the roll to the school. So you can learn Conjuration Magic and it's fundamentally different from learning Evocation. And, according to the rules system, you can purchase a "Master Skill" level (all schools) or a group of schools, etc.

 

If you want to force people to pay for access to individual levels of magic, you can do that. It's really a matter of choice as to how you want to approach it. Make them burn points on Talents (1/3/5 pt Talents or Perquisites to learn certain levels). And so on.

 

 

Well, no offense against Mr. Shrike but I did not find what I was looking for there. He did have an interesting way of doing the level bit, in that each Level was bought at a multi-power or EC. I think my method is close to that but is simpler.

 

About your stuff.....well, I don't have hero designer so I haven't bothered going very far with your thread. I am sure it is of high quality stuff, as is Mr. Shrikes stuff. One day I will spend the money to buy/lease the program, but right now it isn't in the queue. Maybe next year...

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Spell Law and the Fire Law example

 

t3h.

 

It's a big box. You don't need to think too far outside of it. Between you, me & the board, KS once asked me, since he'd gone to all the trouble to design and post a ... Babau I think it was, that I went ahead and insisted on doing it myself regardless. To which I neatly replied: "Because that's the purpose of the exercise. To do it myself." Additionally, there's a definite "feel" I go for in my designs, and I can't get that using KSs stuff. It's great for when I need to think around a problem that may have stumped me, but generally doesn't meet my personal needs. I direct people to it regardless because it's a) massive and works for 95% of the population. I'm just a freak who falls into that random 5% that insists on doing it "their own way."

 

Not owning HDv3 is an offense punishable by severe mocking and a trip through the paddy wagon. Or we can just punch you in the arm a bunch. Grab a credit card and stuff twenty five bucks on it. Trust me on this, because I thought the exact same thing, and it was a horrible, horrible mistake. You really do need HDv3 to do any large-scale project without going completely f'n bonkers. The copy & paste functions, along with having all the math done in advance, along with the pretty pretty print outs, along with the slick interface, along with having all the immediate descriptions a click away, along with... you get the gist.

 

Please. Please buy it. Don't do what I did. Don't waste another minute of your life without it. I'm so not making this up. And no, Simon did NOT threaten to revoke my membership if I don't shill once a month.

 

And you do own it; once you drop the $25.00 you get the program, and the right to DL any & all additional patches, etc. & so forth. Once the contract expires, the only thing you can't do is DL new patches (and you may have some restricted access, but IDKOTTOMH).

 

Ah, must continue Gears of War. I'll continue this in a few.

[azato]

Re: Spell Law and the Fire Law example

 

t3h.

Not owning HDv3 is an offense punishable by severe mocking and a trip through the paddy wagon. Or we can just punch you in the arm a bunch. Grab a credit card and stuff twenty five bucks on it.

 

I will heed those words. I will probably wait until Sept when things will level out a bit. I can see the value in it. Frankly, playing around with spreadsheets and word documents is getting old ESPECIALLY since the formatting does not keep when pasted into this forum!

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Spell Law and the Fire Law example

 

Seriously. It's the cost of a pizza and drinks. You don't think about it, you just order the pie. And this will last you WAY LONGER than the pie will.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Spell Law and the Fire Law example

 

Well, no offense against Mr. Shrike but I did not find what I was looking for there. He did have an interesting way of doing the level bit, in that each Level was bought at a multi-power or EC. I think my method is close to that but is simpler.

 

We're talking about the Vancian Magic Systems, are we?

 

On my site there is a version that uses stacked Multipower Pools, and two versions that use a VPP with varying modifiers. However, the important point is that they are merely implementations of a familiar idea. You can have different implementations if you prefer. The core document lays it all out in detail.

 

Vancian Systems

[Coyotecloudchas]

Re: Spell Law and the Fire Law example

 

I personally am not a fan of magic systems that rely on charges and not Endurance/Mana. My campaigns have always been more fun when mages have to manage their stores of magical energy somehow. The infrequent event of having a mage fall unconscious from exhaustion was always worth it for me. Plus it allows you to simulate so many nifty environments e.g. in an anti-magic field spells cost 10xEND, or on a ley line they cost half end, etc.

However, the standard Fantasy Hero model doesn't allow for progression to more powerful spells easily and also forces a character to spend your xp points on just a few spells that you use over and over again with little variation.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Spell Law and the Fire Law example

 

Yer... that's patently untrue. There is no "single" magic system for HERO, although the 3xReal design of the Turakian Age does require END, the system that KS designed, and I subsequently mimicked, does require tracking and slotting by the user.

[MorpheousXO]

Re: Spell Law and the Fire Law example

 

Hmm... vancian version on a ley line you could get a multiple of effect depending on how powerful the ley line (or nexus... YIKES!)

[azato]

Re: Spell Law and the Fire Law example

 

I just bought HD3 tonight and I must say this is a bad experience. I went to install it and the icon did not show up on my desktop. I reinstalled it and finally got one to show up. I was expecting a directory, some documentation....anything rather than dropping a nondescript looking icon. I had the trial version before and it had an obvious icon.

 

It runs fine but I have no documentation. I click the VIEW DOCUMENTATION under the HELP tab and it merely grays out. I go to the website hoping to download the documentation...there is none that I can find. I go to the discussion board...what a mess. I don't know if I am doing something wrong, but if not, I find it pretty inexcusable that they put out such a product that you have to work hard just to get started. I cannot believe there is no manual. I must be doing something wrong! I gotta be!

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Spell Law and the Fire Law example

 

I just bought HD3 tonight and I must say this is a bad experience. I went to install it and the icon did not show up on my desktop. I reinstalled it and finally got one to show up. I was expecting a directory, some documentation....anything rather than dropping a nondescript looking icon. I had the trial version before and it had an obvious icon.

 

It runs fine but I have no documentation. I click the VIEW DOCUMENTATION under the HELP tab and it merely grays out. I go to the website hoping to download the documentation...there is none that I can find. I go to the discussion board...what a mess. I don't know if I am doing something wrong, but if not, I find it pretty inexcusable that they put out such a product that you have to work hard just to get started. I cannot believe there is no manual. I must be doing something wrong! I gotta be!

 

from:

http://www.herodesigner.com/updates.htm

 

The current documentation for HDv3 can be found here (last updated on May 15th, 2006). To integrate the documentation with HD, simply download the file and save it in your installation directory as "HDDocs.pdf".

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Spell Law and the Fire Law example

 

Well, it's an extremely simple interface for starters; I bet if you played around a bit you'd figure it out yourself. But, if you want documentation, here it is:

 

 

http://www.herodesigner.com/HDDocs.pdf

[azato]

Re: Spell Law and the Fire Law example

 

Well, it's an extremely simple interface for starters; I bet if you played around a bit you'd figure it out yourself. But, if you want documentation, here it is:

 

 

http://www.herodesigner.com/HDDocs.pdf

 

 

Thanks for the link. Well, yeah some of it is simple, but knowing where to put the various files isn't so intuitive. Trying to figure out how to use some of the add-on stuff isn't either, like TH's spell lists. It would have made a bunch more sense to have bundled the documentation with the install of the program. Yeah, i can dink around for hours to figure things out that would take half the time reading about it, but I shouldn't have to.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Spell Law and the Fire Law example

 

Thanks for the link. Well' date=' yeah some of it is simple, but knowing where to put the various files isn't so intuitive. Trying to figure out how to use some of the add-on stuff isn't either, like TH's spell lists. It would have made a bunch more sense to have bundled the documentation with the install of the program. Yeah, i can dink around for hours to figure things out that would take half the time reading about it, but I shouldn't have to.[/quote']

 

TH's spell lists, or the stuff from my site, or other peoples stuff aren't "add ons" any more than word documents someone creates are "add ons" to MS Word -- they're just fan created files created w/ HD on someone's PC that you can also open in HD and use as you like. They aren't any different than the files you will eventually create for yourself.

 

I'm more of a "ill figure it out" type myself; once you play around w/ HD I think you'll find that its pretty intuitive.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Spell Law and the Fire Law example

 

To get this back on topic, I actually took the time to look at the Magic System you propose, and would like to take the opportunity to direct your attention to the "Metier" Magic System on my web site, which is a Multipower based system that pretty much covers what you are trying to do here. It doesn't have a formal "Spell Level" concept, but a) such a concept has very little mechanical meaning in a single multipower anyway, and if you care to enforce it, you easily can anyway.

 

Metier

 

Note, that this is not the same as the Vancian based Sorcery Magic System you indirectly referenced previously; it is one of nine other non-Vancian major systems (many of which also have detailed variants presented) that I provide on my site.

 

Also, if you are determined to "do it yourself" and make your own system, there is also a collection of documents intended to help, presenting considerations relevant to Magic System design:

 

Magic System Design

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Spell Law and the Fire Law example

 

Also, I just recalled, I have a detailed "Psionics" system up as well that uses a Multipower, and is easily "converted" to be a Magic System by the simple expedient of changing the SFX; I even give some flavor options about that on an "Alternatives" page:

 

Psionics

[azato]

Re: Spell Law and the Fire Law example

 

TH's spell lists, or the stuff from my site, or other peoples stuff aren't "add ons" any more than word documents someone creates are "add ons" to MS Word -- they're just fan created files created w/ HD on someone's PC that you can also open in HD and use as you like. They aren't any different than the files you will eventually create for yourself.

 

I'm more of a "ill figure it out" type myself; once you play around w/ HD I think you'll find that its pretty intuitive.

 

I generally am too. I should not have d/l the program last night. It was past my bed time and i rode my bicycle for 2 1/2 hours in the heat and it affected me more than normal. Not the best time for starting something new. If I came across cranky, I apologize. I should not be responding to posts when I am in the throes of irritation - especially when people are being helpful.

[azato]

Re: Spell Law and the Fire Law example

 

I know this is technically the right place, but....

 

I am trying to get HD to force a 2pt cost for every point of str. I am in xml for the template and i added "lvlcost="2" at the end of the str line . I am not getting it to work. Any thoughts?

 

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Spell Law and the Fire Law example

 

Use this utility on my site:

 

http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/Content/RacePackageDeals/NCMExport/NCMExport.asp

 

It should give you a good starting point.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Spell Law and the Fire Law example

 

In fact....here you go:

 

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1"?>











ATTACK
(Hero System Fifth Edition Rule Book, page 20-22)Strength represents the characters raw physical power:  how much damage he does in HTH Combat; how much he can lift, carry, and throw, and so forth.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Spell Law and the Fire Law example

 

Oh, and the file too...

[azato]

Re: Spell Law and the Fire Law example

 

Thanks, I would rep you but it won't allow me. I might just have to go on a repping spree.