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[Character] Paragon


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Pargaon

 

25* Str.. 13 *No figured Characteristics

20 Dex 30

20 Con 20

20 Bdy 20

15 Int 5

15 Ego 10

20 PRE 10

16 Com 3

8 Pd 4

8 Ed 4

4 Spd 10

10 Rec 4

50 End 5

50 Stun 10

 

Char. Cost 148

 

Skills

3 Acrobatics 13-

3 Analyze Combat Technique 12-

3 Breakfall 13-

3 Combat Horsemanship 13-

3 Conversation 13-

3 Fast Draw 13-

3 High Society 13-

3 Paramedics 12-

2 Survival Temperate 12-

2 Survival Desert 12-

2 Survival Arctic 12-

3 Linguist

3 Traveler

0 French Idiomatic (archaic)

1 English Fluent (arachiac)

1 Gaelic Fluent

1 German Fluent

2 Navigation land 12-

2 Navigation extra-dimensional 12-

2 Navigation air 12-

3 Weapon Smith Blade

25 +5 Hand to Hand

10 Defense Maneuver

10 Two-Weapon Fighting

5 Rapid Attack

24 Martial Arts: Leg sweep, Strike, Dodge, Block, Disarm, Weapon element (blades), +1 DC

 

Skills cost: 112

 

32 [81] Shield of the Pendragons.. +14rpd, +12red Forcewall 1/2 end +1"; self only -1/2, no range -1/2, restrainable -1/2

 

17 [37] Slash... 2d6 HKA, Indirect +1/4,

OIF -1/2, no KB-1/4, beam -1/4, cannot be pushed -1/4.

 

16 [45] Thrust ... 1d6+1 HKA, Indirect +1/4, A.P. +1/2

OIF -1/2, no KB -1/4, beam -1/4, cannot be pushed -1/4

 

15 [45] Hack... 2d6 HKA, Indirect +1/4

OIF -1/2, no KB -1/4, beam -1/4, cannot be pushed -1/4, reduced penetration -1/4.

 

2 [5] Mental defense

5 [5] Power Defense

3 Life Support Longevity 800 years.

 

Powers cost: 90

Total Cost: 350

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Re: [Character write up] Pargaon

 

Disadvantages;

 

20 Normal Characteristic Maxima

10 Phys. Lim. Illiterate

15 Phys. Lim. Missing right hand

25 Psych. Code of Chivalry (Total, Very Common)

15 Psych. Lim. Overconfident

10 Psych. Lim. Sees it as a holy duty to keeping picking fights with competent H+H opponents.

15 Soc. Lim. 8- Subject to orders by Lady of the Lake

0 DNPC. Lady of Lake 8- (More powerful, useful)

25 DNPC 8- potential "Arthurs" (a group of 8 minors)

15 Hunted Mordred and cronies 8-

5 Vuln. 1.5x Seduction (both the related skills, conversation et. al and Mind control w/sfx)

?? Soc. Lim. Anachronistic (Paragon is still stuck in the Middle Ages, totally out of synch. with modern customs)

 

Total Disadvantages: 155

 

Notes:

I know Illiteracy is often only a 3pt. disadvantage, but I think the Physical Lim. makes sense because he can't be compelled under Mind Control to read, because he simply cannot read.

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Re: [Character write up] Pargaon

 

Paragon is an "alter Lancelot" who rather than succumbing entirely to his attraction to Gwenever, left Camelot in search of a "cure" for his condition. He travels from Camelot north, through Scotland, into Viking country, and as far south as the deserts of Arabia, upholding his chivalric vows and always searching for the Lady of Lake (while Arthur is at least apparently Christian, Lancelot's true faith is entirely "pagan"). After years of traveling and various adventures, Lancelot finally encounters the Lady of the Lake, who orders him to attend to Arthur, who is just then preparing to meet Mordred and his army in the field.

 

Lancelot races to the battlefront, but arrives late. He rallies several of Arthur's wounded knights and leads a reckless charge to Arthur's flag deep in the battlefield. He and the few survivors arrive just in time to witness Arthur mortally wounded by Mordred. As Mordred recovers Excalibur and moves to behead Arthur, Lancelot vaults from his horse, interposes his right arm, saving the dying king's head but losing his right forearm. In the ensuing bloody battle, Mordred's forces are temporarily beaten back, Lancelot and Sir Kay escape with Arthur's body.

 

The Lady of the Lake appears and charges Lancelot to hold Excalibur in trust for the "Future King." Using her prodigious magical prowess, she sends Lancelot to various dimensions seeking this Future King, until arriving in the campaign.

 

Comments welcome.

 

Peace

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Re: [Character write up] Pargaon

 

Um, is this your anti-brick response? He just looks like a very munchkiny build.

 

His Total Code of Chivalry seems to be in conflict with his bully/fight picking Psych Lim.

 

I personally wouldn't allow him since he only has three attacks and they're all killing. Not very heroic.

 

In addition, while the Force Wall smacks of "munchkin invulnerability," by the rule, Paragon wouldn't be able to attack anyone until he brought his Force Wall down as well.

 

Sort of a double-edged sword there. (Pun intended.)

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Re: [Character write up] Pargaon

 

What's the point of having Two-Weapon fighting if he's missing a hand?

 

If Illiteracy is normally a 3 pt disad, how is 10 points more reasonable? I can understand him not being "mind controlled" to read (though I seriously question a GM who accepts Mind Control as a means to make/allow someone to read), but that should just be 5 points, perhaps. I don't see how it would be more limiting to this character.

 

I'm curious to why he's Linguistic, but just has languages at the "fluent" level instead of Completely Fluent.

 

How did he get to be a knowledgeable dimensional traveler? It seems like the Lady of the Lake (for whatever reason) is the one sending him to alternate dimensions; he doesn't have any control over it.

 

If you've given him three separate HKAs, why does he have martial arts (which I've just noticed), in particular Legsweep? In essence, you've given him the option to attack four times with Multi-Power Attacks (three HKA+MA), but for what reason?

 

Does he need (and still use) Combat Horsemanship? And what modifiers does his "missing right hand" give him on that?

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Re: [Character write up] Pargaon

 

1. Not an anti-brick per se, just a character concept that got stuck in my head, and I wanted to see how it panned out. What aspects of it, other than the Force Wall do you find especially munchkin? I'm not doubting you, just want the feedback.

 

2. Relative to the Chivalry and the picking fights... Did you ever watch Excalibur? It's exactly what Lancelot there was doing. He set out with his armor, sword, lance and horse and blocked the way goading other knights into challenges so that he could find "a king worthy of serving." The Code of Chivalry, for Lancelot, is about being honorable, protecting the innocent, defending women, keeping one's word, uttering no false testimony, keeping good care of your horse, tack, and gear etc. Knights were professional killers, and Lancelot, in particular, had a big complex about being the biggest and baddest killer of his era.

 

3. He does have normal martial arts attacks (martial strike comes in at 8d6 normal), and as far as the Killing attack thing goes, it's Excalibur. I just can't justify modeling Excalibur as a H+H attack.

 

4. Bypassing the munchkin comment for a moment, all of Paragon's HKA's have indirect (originates outside of force wall) per FRED. I would have put indirect on his hand techniques, but I couldn't for the life of me figure out how to do it... Indirect on Strength?

 

Actually if I were going to categorize Paragon, I'd call him a brick: high damage, high resistance, low speed.

 

I'll admit my inner munchkin, and perhaps the force wall is set too high. I don't think that using a force wall in this manner is unfair, after all how many bricks worry about normal machine gun fire? I also wanted a resistance based defense that could be temporarily brought down, and that's force wall. I modeled the shield after something in Gadgets and Gear (though it was a lot more powerful: 18rpd/18red hardened x2, usable by others).

 

It may be difficult to bring down the shield, but once it falls, Pargaon has an amazing 8 non resistance defense to everything until his next action phase? I really like the shield concept, so what in your opinion is an appropriate level of resistance for a force wall that is the character's only resistant defense in a 350 pt. game? And as a point of comparison, most "bricks" in the campaigns I've been in at that level have at least 30rpd.

 

Thanks for the thoughts!

 

1. Two-Weapon Fighting: is a known quantity that deals with limiting the penalties of Sweeps. As off-hand modifiers and the like are not generally applied in 350 pt. games where folks purchase their weapons with points, it was a short cut rather than adding +2 H+H combat levels, only for sweeps. But as you wish.

 

2. 5pts or 10pts for illiteracy. I went with 10 because I figured it was "Frequently" and "slightly" limiting in the modern world. I'm fine with 5 pts. or 3.

 

3. Dimensional Traveler... bouncing through the dimensions before landing in the campaign. Do you not gain a certain familiarity with an area even when someone else drives? I figured it'd be the same kind of thing, if not, it doesn't bother me to drop it. I only included it as a seemingly necessary background skill relative to his backstory.

 

4. I think, if allowed multiple power attacks, Paragon could make 3 attacks. Or he could sweep and use different maneuvers, but I could be wrong. The maneuvers where there because I thought they were needed. Assume for a moment that Excalibur is a military long sword, smashing that into your knee may very well sweep you off your feet. Similarly, a thrust (martial strike) is likely to cause more damage than a simple hack. Block is parry.

 

5. Combat Horsemanship was required by his backstory. Lancelot rode in the joust, he needs to have that skill. Will it ever come up? Probably not. And as far as missing his right hand, it is my understanding that most horsemanship is in the legs, balance, etc. that very little of it has to do with the arms. Watch Olympic Dressage sometime, they hardly move their hands at all, and if they're directing the horse with them, I can't tell.

 

Peace

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Re: [Character write up] Pargaon

 

Um, is this your anti-brick response? He just looks like a very munchkiny build.

 

His Total Code of Chivalry seems to be in conflict with his bully/fight picking Psych Lim.

 

I personally wouldn't allow him since he only has three attacks and they're all killing. Not very heroic.

 

In addition, while the Force Wall smacks of "munchkin invulnerability," by the rule, Paragon wouldn't be able to attack anyone until he brought his Force Wall down as well.

 

Sort of a double-edged sword there. (Pun intended.)

If I may...

 

Why is this munchkiny? Because he has killing attacks instead of normal ones?

None of his attacks seem out of step (perhaps some of the limitations are unnecissary) and the "Force Wall Invulnerability" as you call it is...a Force Wall. Are you saying that the Force Wall Power is munchkin only?

 

I can sort of see your point on the MultiAttack powers angle. But the rest of it I don't see.

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Re: [Character write up] Pargaon

 

As for the linguistics

 

He takes the 2pt. Fluent rather than the 3 pt. Fluent with accent, because he has a persistent French accent. I speak both French and German, and in both I still have a Southern draw.

 

To clarify on the Code of Chivalry:

 

1. Bare no false witness

2. Uphold the King's Justice, both high and low

3. Treat all women with courtesy and respect

4. Defend the weak, protect the innocent.

5. Serve unfailingly your lawful king.

6. Forswear no oath

7. Allow no dishonor to go unchallenged; (history lesson, in several "knighting" ceremonies the candidate was given a "final blow" named such because it was the last such he could take without challenging the other to feat of arms).

 

 

There is in the Chivalric Code (both historical and in the presentation in the movie Excalibur which was the original inspiration for the character) for a knight to be "itching for a fight" so long as the proper form was respected. Given the breadth of the Code, I figured it worth the extra 5 points. So essentially, you have a character who cannot strike women, lie, fail to save innocents etc... all tolled more than 40 pts. of Psych. Lim if taken individually.

 

As far as the force wall goes, if the damage cap is 12 dc's then your slightly below average haymaker drops it if physical, and a only slightly above average energy attack drops it. Any grab or entangle drops it. It's a lot defense against "mooks" but in practice not that much against super powered foes, I would think. Admittedly, I've never played a character with this kind of defense before, but when any energy projector with a slightly pushed energy blast takes down your defense for 3 phases.

 

To Enforcer:

Thanks for the support!

 

Relative to the limitations I think they're all legal and want to keep them. I really don't want knockback, or the ability to "pull" my punches with the sword (just doesn't make sense to me), similarly while I could see being able to Push my STR to do more damage, I can't quite wrap my head around how I would push an inanimate object to "heroic levels of performance. As far as the reduced penetration for Hack, there's a reason for it. Essentially, I envision hack as a brute force attack rather than the surgical strikes he uses when he thrusts for the heart or slashes a hamstring. It's a preliminary set up for a linked power that I want to add later on called "Batter" which is just a drain PD power. The idea being that the more surgical strike hit weak points in the armor, whereas hack tears rents into the targets armor.

 

As far as Multiple power attacks go: Yes, I want the ability to strike with each of the HKAs against a single target in one phase. If multiple power attacks are banned, then I'll covert them to a multipower, and build a second multipower with linked "secondary effects" like "Batter." If linked powers are disallowed, I'll convert it to a variable advantage HKA and I guess I'll shore up the holes in my defense: flash defense, armor, etc.

 

Peace

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Re: [Character write up] Pargaon

 

Treb,

 

1. I was thinking about using the HKAs in multiple power attacks. I look at slash, hack, thrust as a standard combination that someone of Lancelot's expertise would use pretty consistently, without having to take the Sweep DCV/OCV hit. I'd probably save a ton of points just buying up skill levels and using it as a multipower, and just sweeping every attack phase. So instead of 31 pts. worth of attacks, I could buy +6 with H+H and be up +4 H+H levels and 1 pt? Unless I have it wrong, and I might, a sweep with rapid fire and two-weapon fighting is a half phase action at -2 DCV. I appreciate the efficiency advise (more so if I have the sweep thing wrong), but I find it a little humorous that Kirby is calling me out for munchkinism, when I'm actually using a less efficient build.

 

2. Armor vrs. Forcewall... Armor is persistent is the problem, and I want the defense to occasionally drop. I really, really want a shield, and to me that means that sometimes it doesn't protect you. I suppose I could go with Armor and an Activation Roll; again no doubt saving tons of points, but I wanted it to relate to either the power of the attack or at least the sneakiness (fully indirect should bypass it). So, forcefield is the better choice, (if Lancelot isn't conscious and interposing the shield, it is readily avoided, which armor wouldn't allow).

 

But you make a good point, maybe I should redraft and so what happens if I take your suggestions.

 

Powers: Go from this

32 [81] Shield of the Pendragons.. +14rpd, +12red Forcewall 1/2 end +1"; self only -1/2, no range -1/2, restrainable -1/2

 

17 [37] Slash... 2d6 HKA, Indirect +1/4,

OIF -1/2, no KB-1/4, beam -1/4, cannot be pushed -1/4.

 

16 [45] Thrust ... 1d6+1 HKA, Indirect +1/4, A.P. +1/2

OIF -1/2, no KB -1/4, beam -1/4, cannot be pushed -1/4

 

15 [45] Hack... 2d6 HKA, Indirect +1/4

OIF -1/2, no KB -1/4, beam -1/4, cannot be pushed -1/4, reduced penetration -1/4.

 

To

33 [67] Shield of the Pendragons +30rpd, +24red Forcefield Reduced End +1/4; Activation 14- -1/2, restrainable -1/2

 

20 [45] Excalibur Multipower common limitation: OIF -1/2, No KB -1/4, Beam -1/4, Cannot be pushed -1/4

 

2 u. Thrust1d6+1 HKA, Indirect +1/4, A.P. +1/2

OIF -1/2, no KB -1/4, beam -1/4, cannot be pushed -1/4

 

2 u.Slash... 2d6 HKA, Indirect +1/4,

OIF -1/2, no KB-1/4, beam -1/4, cannot be pushed -1/4.

 

2 u. Hack... 2d6 HKA, Indirect +1/4

OIF -1/2, no KB -1/4, beam -1/4, cannot be pushed -1/4, reduced penetration -1/4.

 

8 +2 DCV combat level only to offset Sweep Penalty -1/4

 

10 +2 combat levels w/ hand to hand

 

1 Area Knowledge: New York City

1 Area Knowledge: Paris

1 Area Knowledge: Stockholm

 

 

This, I think, makes the character more of a munchkin rather than less

 

Peace

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Re: [Character write up] Pargaon

 

Treb,

 

1. I was thinking about using the HKAs in multiple power attacks. I look at slash, hack, thrust as a standard combination that someone of Lancelot's expertise would use pretty consistently, without having to take the Sweep DCV/OCV hit. I'd probably save a ton of points just buying up skill levels and using it as a multipower, and just sweeping every attack phase. So instead of 31 pts. worth of attacks, I could buy +6 with H+H and be up +4 H+H levels and 1 pt? Unless I have it wrong, and I might, a sweep with rapid fire and two-weapon fighting is a half phase action at -2 DCV. I appreciate the efficiency advise (more so if I have the sweep thing wrong), but I find it a little humorous that Kirby is calling me out for munchkinism, when I'm actually using a less efficient build.

The sword as built is a pretty lethal combo if used with an MPA. I could see some GM's balking at that.

 

2. Armor vrs. Forcewall... Armor is persistent is the problem, and I want the defense to occasionally drop. I really, really want a shield, and to me that means that sometimes it doesn't protect you. I suppose I could go with Armor and an Activation Roll; again no doubt saving tons of points, but I wanted it to relate to either the power of the attack or at least the sneakiness (fully indirect should bypass it).
A shield could be built as Armor with coverage only on the 3 front hexsides. The real problem with Force Wall is if it's penetrated by even one BODY it goes away - a real shield wouldn't.

 

I think I'd opt for a bit of chainmail armor to back up the shield. Even a few points could really make a difference in survival - and make no mistake; in most campaigns if you play this character with all those Killing Attacks you will end up facing the same.

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Re: [Character write up] Pargaon

 

Is the Shield of the Pendragons really an actual shield or is it the enchanted sheath for Excalibur that is supposed to convey invulnerability? If it's a "real" shield, I wonder how a one-handed man can use both sword and shield. Not a write-up quibble, because the SotP is written up so that it would not require a hand but just a conceptual quibble.

 

I wouldn't have a problem with this character as long as another player was operating as his modern era conscience and Paragon's player was dedicated in buying down the game killer disadvantages. As he stands, he is going to smite the wrong person at the wrong time and bring the game crashing down.

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Re: [Character write up] Pargaon

 

Trebuchet:

 

I appreciate your feedback.

 

On the Multiple Power Attack, is there any substantive difference between the multiple power attack originally contemplated and a sweep in the "revised edition" other than the multiple power attack had each of hack, slash and thrust, but a sweep, presumably, would only be 3x thrust or hack or slash? Is the combination of straight HKA, Armor Piercing HKA, and Reduced Penetrating HKA that much superior to 3 instances of anyone of them?

 

With the cost savings, I can buy combat levels to equalize the penalties, so there's no CV differences between the two actions.

 

On the shield. I'm not looking for an only 3 sides defense; I think it's inconsistent with full defensive maneuver where no one, even unperceived enemies are "behind." One of the advantages of force wall is that it negates Stun, so a 100 Stun 10 Body attack bounces off a 12rpd forcewall, but with armor or forcefield the Stun passes on through. As far as the "1 Body penetrating" problem; I rationalize that as an attack so powerful it knocks the shield out of position, until Lancelot can recover his senses and put it back into place.

 

Adding a bit of chain mail was something I considered, but left out afraid that it would make the character too "invulnerable."

 

Casual Player:

 

The Shield of the Pendragons is just a magical effect that takes the appearance of a shield bound to Lancelot's arm, because that's what he knows how to use. So envision a magical energy field surrounding his right arm, looks like a shield, blocks like a shield....

 

Mind indicating which are the "game killer" disadvantages? I was thinking about getting rid of his illiteracy first off the bat, but if there's one that's more important I'd appreciate the input.

 

Peace

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Re: [Character] Paragon

 

Perhaps I'm using the damage cap wrong?

 

I thought the damage cap was exclusive of maneuvers, pushing and the like. So at a 12 DC cap:

 

Brick 60 STR, pushes to 70, haymaker = 18 DC (ranged/AoE if there's an armored car handy)

Energy Projection EB, pushes to 70, haymaker = 18 DC's at range

etc.

 

Paragon can never, under any circumstances, do more than 12 DC's. Isn't that worth considering before he's condemned as having too much offense? Maybe it's all just Killing Attack hate.

 

Just a thought.

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Re: [Character write up] Pargaon

 

Casual Player:

 

The Shield of the Pendragons is just a magical effect that takes the appearance of a shield bound to Lancelot's arm, because that's what he knows how to use. So envision a magical energy field surrounding his right arm, looks like a shield, blocks like a shield....

 

Mind indicating which are the "game killer" disadvantages? I was thinking about getting rid of his illiteracy first off the bat, but if there's one that's more important I'd appreciate the input.

 

Peace

 

Groovy on the shield. Might want to put "Must be aware of attack" on the write-up, which might let you have enough leeway to get to 0 END.

 

The one-two game killer punch is the Rivalry with everyone who's a "competent HTH" fighter and a predilection toward the stabby. It can work just fine if you have a Wonder Girl to your Starfire to soothe the wild breast, but as it sits Paragon is going to end up cutting up a Silver Avenger or a teammate and that just leads to hurt feelings. ;)

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Re: [Character] Paragon

 

Casual player..

 

Good point. I'm pretty sure "Being gracious to enemies that yield" is in the Chivalric Code, and if not, I'll write it in. So if push comes to shove, he'll accept the surrender of the competent Hand to Hand fighter (lying there bleeding to death will be presumed to be asking for quarter), and patch them up with his Paramedic Skill, call an ambulance, and bid them a speedy recovery. :) Also it's a rivalry, so I figured that folks on the same side should be relatively safe, that is to say, that the rivalry would play out more as a one upmanship kind of thing. So if Silver Avenger and Paragon are on team, Paragon would charge Grond and call over his shoulder "Don't trouble yourself, I won't be long." Of course, if the Silver Avenger challenged Paragon, there would probably be blood on the floor before it was over. I'm guessing my impression of the check that the Code of Chivalry has on his "looking for fights" and "accepting any challenge" is greater than was communicated to you or Kirby.

 

And thanks for the feedback on the shield. I had all ready assumed that in my head, but I probably should take the limitation for it. I want to keep the endurance cost though. (Can you tell I'm too enamored of that movie?). At times, Lancelot dropped his shield because he was too tired to both block and attack, and I wanted to keep that dynamic. Maybe I'll take the extra 3 pts. and add some AK's or something.

 

Peace

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Re: [Character write up] Pargaon

 

1. Not an anti-brick per se' date=' just a character concept that got stuck in my head, and I wanted to see how it panned out. What aspects of it, other than the Force Wall do you find especially munchkin? I'm not doubting you, just want the feedback.[/quote']To begin with, his STR. By the point spread you have, you've purchased 20 STR, then +5 STR w/No Fig Characteristics for 3 points; however you have the NCM disad, so that +5 STR should have cost you +10 points and even with the No Fig. Char., it would end up costing 7 points, so you're shaving off another 4 points. Heck, if you just paid the 20 points to have a legit 25 STR, you'd save 1 on PD, 2 on REC, and 3 on STUN and have a more legitimate character build for 4 points more. By the way, you don't have PRE listed.

 

2. Relative to the Chivalry and the picking fights... Did you ever watch Excalibur? It's exactly what Lancelot there was doing. He set out with his armor' date=' sword, lance and horse and blocked the way goading other knights into challenges [b']so that he could find "a king worthy of serving."[/b]
[Emphasis mine.]First, Lancelot was not an original part of the Arthur legend, the French addition was added later by...a Frenchman. The movie Excalibur, while great, was fiction, not a documentary. After swearing fealty to Arthur, he didn't keep fighting good knights. Anyway, back on topic: So now that he has 8 people to watch over, he still needs to pick fights? :confused:

 

The Code of Chivalry' date=' for Lancelot, is about being honorable, protecting the innocent....[/quote']Which, he's not protecting the innocent if he's picking a fight with them simply because he found one that he thinks can fight.

 

3. He does have normal martial arts attacks (martial strike comes in at 8d6 normal)' date=' and as far as the Killing attack thing goes, it's Excalibur. I just can't justify modeling Excalibur as a H+H attack.[/quote']A 2d6HKA w/25 STR does 3d6+1k damage - that's more powerful than the M-60 machine gun and .50 cal sniper rifle. With the AP advantage, that's nearly as powerful as a 57 mm recoilless rifle. That sword might as well be a light saber.

 

4. Bypassing the munchkin comment for a moment' date=' all of Paragon's HKA's have indirect (originates outside of force wall) per FRED. I would have put indirect on his hand techniques, but I couldn't for the life of me figure out how to do it... Indirect on Strength?[/quote']Which is essentially a munchkin build which I wouldn't allow. By using a Force Wall instead of Armor, your character is avoiding ALL possibility of taking Stun until the FW comes down. If that doesn't ring of being cheesey, I don't know what will.

 

 

 

I don't think that using a force wall in this manner is unfair' date=' after all how many bricks worry about normal machine gun fire?[/quote']Here I'm calling BS on your build. You've used mythical Excalibur and Lancelot as your reasoning. You are aware that people STOPPED wearing armor because bullets could go through them, right? This is also why castles and castle walls were no longer constructed.

 

I also wanted a resistance based defense that could be temporarily brought down, and that's force wall. I modeled the shield after something in Gadgets and Gear (though it was a lot more powerful: 18rpd/18red hardened x2, usable by others).

 

I really like the shield concept' date=' so what in your opinion is an appropriate level of resistance for a force wall that is the character's only resistant defense in a 350 pt. game? And as a point of comparison, most "bricks" in the campaigns I've been in at that level have at least 30rpd.[/quote']Let me see if I can make this clear: A Force Wall to be used as a shield by a one-handed two-weapon fighting style person reeks of munchkinism and would not be allowed. If you want a shield, by Armor with a focus and activation roll. Pure and simple.

 

 

1. Two-Weapon Fighting: is a known quantity that deals with limiting the penalties of Sweeps. As off-hand modifiers and the like are not generally applied in 350 pt. games where folks purchase their weapons with points' date=' it was a short cut rather than adding +2 H+H combat levels, only for sweeps. But as you wish.[/quote']This is another abuse of the system that flies in the face of character design (which you've implied before is supposed to be more important). First, you're "missing one hand" while weilding a sword and a shield (you are aware that Lancelot's style of shield would have required his hand to keep a grip on it, right?). Off-hand modifiers ARE applied in 350 point games; this is where Ambidexterity can come in. The Two-Weapon Fighting is designed for TWO weapons, one in each hand (one of which, your Lancelot is missing). Per FRED, p. 51:

"Two-Weapon Fighting is the ability to use the Combat Maneuvers Rapid Fire or Sweep combied with a limited form of the Talent Ambiedexterity," (which you don't have) "in an improved manner. It allows the character to ignore the -3 penalty for using his oof hand to attack, and the first -2 OCV modifier when making his two attacks." [Emphasis Mine.]

 

Two Weapon Fighting is not designed for a person with one hand to use one weapon in a MPA so that they don't have to deal with a pesky penalty or two.

 

3. Dimensional Traveler... bouncing through the dimensions before landing in the campaign. Do you not gain a certain familiarity with an area even when someone else drives?
Since he has no AK of the territories he's been, no. Bouncing through dimensions would be more akin to someone flying you from the US to Japan then to Kenya, then to Guam then to Beijing. That doesn't give me an ability (navigation) with airplanes. AKs would be more appropriate for the territories/dimensions he's going to, but that doesn't mean you know how to navigate to get there.

 

5. Combat Horsemanship was required by his backstory. Lancelot rode in the joust' date=' he needs to have that skill. Will it ever come up? Probably not. [/quote']If it's for this part, that's fine, however...

Lancelot rode in the joust, he needs to have that skill. Will it ever come up? Probably not. And as far as missing his right hand, it is my understanding that most horsemanship is in the legs, balance, etc. that very little of it has to do with the arms.

Combat riding is not the same as riding. For the joust, Lancelot controls the direction of the horse (and increases in speed) with the feet, yes. But he needs one hand for his weapon and a second for the shield and reins. You also need to use the reins to slow down, which you can't do with your sword hand if you're slowing down to attack someone.

 

I would also require you to either designate the Lady of the Lake as a superior (your social lim) or a DNPC, not both (even if the DNPC is 0 points). You'd have to have a good reason why this superior is dependent on you (and trying to keep in the flavor of the myth) for both to be allowed.

 

If you're looking for a good Lancelot build, just look at the perfect archtype nemesis - Black Paladin. He has armor AND a shield AND a sword. (Granted, his armor and weapons are magical, but a parallel Lancelot story is justifiable.)

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Re: [Character write up] Pargaon

 

2. Armor vrs. Forcewall... Armor is persistent is the problem' date=' and I want the defense to occasionally drop. I really, really want a shield, and to me that means that sometimes it doesn't protect you. I suppose I could go with Armor and an Activation Roll; again no doubt saving tons of points, but I wanted it to relate to either the power of the attack or at least the sneakiness (fully indirect should bypass it). So, [b']forcefield[/b] is the better choice, (if Lancelot isn't conscious and interposing the shield, it is readily avoided, which armor wouldn't allow).
Are you doing Force Wall or Force Field? If you purchase a shield, you should purchase a focus limitation (either OAF or OIF) to go with it. Regardless of whether a GM lets you use Force Wall, Force Field, or Armor to simulate the shield, a decent GM would note that if Lancelot is unconscious, the shield won't help him anyway.
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Re: [Character write up] Pargaon

 

Kirby:

 

1. The last +5 STR was bought no figured characteristics, which being a limitation exempted it from the NCM. I added it, honestly, to make the calculation of DC's easier and to prevent having to have massive unarmed damage with extra martial arts DC's.

 

Sorry about missing the PRE, it's 20 by the by, a transcription error.

 

2. a. So my homage is to a movie rather than Morte d'Arthur or the various modern conceptions of a declining Roman Centurion with pretensions of granduer. Sorry if that offends, but I'm not sure what I can do about it.

 

b. Picking fights... 1) I believe that picking fights, accepting challenges, charging into the breach is a fundamental part of Lancelot's character. When he was trying to keep himself from betraying Arthur, what did he do? Went out and fought a lot. 2) Whether it's worth a distinct disadvantage, I'm not sure. I'll have to think on it.

 

c. Relative to the "innocents" those, in my fiction, were selected by the Lady of the Lake, rather than Lancelot. It made perfect sense to me at the time; I'll think on more back story to justify it or change it.

 

3. 3d6+1k damage is more powerful than a .50 cal sniper rifle. Yep. But if you look in your "real world weapons" you'll find "Battle Axe 2d6 HKA (STR min 13" which would be a net 3d HKA if I took it off the wall. So it's okay for Lancelot to pick up a random antique of a display case and do 3d6 HKA, but not to own one? By the by 3d6+1 is only 10 DC's, compared to your average brick's 12 to 18 DC, which on the low end is compared, by the book to a Howitzer Round, and on the top end to a MOAB ("Mother of all Bombs" I think it's actual name is Multiple Ordinance Air Burst). Admittedly, if Paragon were fighting the U.S. Marine Corp. it would be an issue, but why should he have to bring a sniper rifle to an artillery duel?

 

b. It's Excalibur... it is a light sabre.

 

4. Force wall is cheesy? Okay, we can argue about exact levels, but let's see how it works in practice. Against an energy damage opponent, any strike that does 13 body knocks down the shield for 3 phases. How many energy strikes in a superpowered game with a 12 DC cap can regularly do 13 body? Why almost all of them. For physical attacks, it requires 15 body, pretty sure that 18 DC haymaker would do it quite easily, even a 6" move through would have a decent shot (14dc). Then there's that .50 cal sniper rifle you're so fond of, it might take a lucky shot, but it can do it.

 

We can argue about the appropriate level for the forcewall, remember I invited you to suggest an appropriate level, but I think you're discounting the rather massive downside. When it goes down, and it's going to go down, for at least the next Phase and usually 2 or 3 he has virtually 0 resistance to anything.

 

By contrast, your armor construction provides permanent, persistent, 24-7, 365 coverage only this time, nothing short of 16 DC's can scratch. (nets a 38 pd vrs. STUN, and you'll basically never take Body damage ever).

 

5. Um, BS. Okay, I'm calling foul on your Brick that can lift a tank, people can't do that and even if they could the leverage exerted on his spinal cord would snap it in half. And your Speedster that breaks the sound barrier without being incinerated by the friction? Totally violates the laws of physics. Get where I'm going. I don't think historical realism has much place in a 350 pt. game.

 

 

6. Relative to Two-Weapon Fighting, a) I really have never seen a 350 pt. game where off-hand penalties were applied, but if it is, so be it; as I stated I can rebuild it using combat skill levels just as easily. Just a convenience, saves a little typing.

 

B) The shield as I explained earlier is a magical effect that looks like a shield, rather than being a physical thing. It cannot be taken away as it is merely a shimmering energy field that resembles a circular shield with the crest of the Pendragons that happens to also "float" around Lancelot's right arm.

 

7. Relative to the AK, Navigation et. al. You may have a point. I had had an idea for a follower Pegasus to provide Paragon with better movement, but ultimately discarded that concept and failed to eliminate Air Navigation from the build. If you want, I'll drop both; as I've said many times, I purchased the skill as being necessary for the backstory, if you don't think they're appropriate, I'll gladly take the points over the skills I'll never use.

 

8. Relative to riding. I don't ride, I only know what I've seen on TV. If you say it's impossible to ride a horse with one hand, so be it. I'll pay for the skill, and reduce it to 0- roll to represent the impossibility. Or toss it out the window. But I think you're getting a little too resistant to some good natured suspension of disbelief. I mean do you require all speedsters to purchase +100 red (heat only -1/2) in order to travel at supersonic speeds?

 

9. Getting rid of the 0 pt. DNPC on the Lady of the Lake... okay. No problem.

 

10. Don't get it. Black paladin's magic armor and weapons are okay, but Lancelot's aren't.

 

 

I really don't understand your issue with the DC's, it's a max of 12 in a 12 DC campaign, and it can't be pushed, maneuvered, etc. into anything higher. Almost everybody else "in tights" in such a campaign will at least be able to get up to 18 (12 DC + pushed +2 DC, haymaker +4DC). And that's not counting the extreme funkiness of move throughs, which can go even higher.

 

I would think that if the force wall were 3rpd and 3 red, you wouldn't have a problem with it, or would you? Basically anything other than a love tap by a normal would bring it down.

 

If you won't propose a level of resistance that you think would be appropriate for a force wall character, then I'm afraid we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

Thank you for your thoughtful analysis and catching the errors I made. I appreciate it.

 

Relative to your 2nd post:

1. It's a magical effect that cannot be taken away, even if Lancelot is defenseless and the opponent has a year or more to try to take it away, so a Focus limitation is inappropriate. As for the unconscious aspect, that's what forcefield/force wall is for. As I recall, all constant powers cease upon the character being stunned or rendered unconscious. So either way, as a force wall or a forcefield, if Paragon is stunned or knocked out, the shield drops. Your quote was my response to Trebs about modeling the Shield of the Pendragons as Armor instead of Forcewall, so my response was essentially, if force wall is disallowed for whatever reason, then forcefield is the better choice because it costs end, is not persistent, etc. unlike armor which would continue to work while the character was stunned, knocked unconscious etc.

 

Peace

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Re: [Character write up] Pargaon

 

1. The last +5 STR was bought no figured characteristics' date=' which being a limitation exempted it from the NCM. I added it, honestly, to make the calculation of DC's easier and to prevent having to have massive unarmed damage with extra martial arts DC's.[/quote']The reasoning doesn't seem to justify the method of buying it. To me, it just smacks of point shaving which goes down the min/max munchkin road.

 

2. a. So my homage is to a movie rather than Morte d'Arthur or the various modern conceptions of a declining Roman Centurion with pretensions of granduer. Sorry if that offends' date=' but I'm not sure what I can do about it.[/quote']:shrug: It just seems you don't have a solid concept you're sticking with. YMMV.

 

3. 3d6+1k damage is more powerful than a .50 cal sniper rifle. Yep. But if you look in your "real world weapons" you'll find "Battle Axe 2d6 HKA (STR min 13" which would be a net 3d HKA if I took it off the wall. So it's okay for Lancelot to pick up a random antique of a display case and do 3d6 HKA' date=' but not to own one? By the by 3d6+1 is only 10 DC's, compared to your average brick's 12 to 18 DC....[/quote']Another reason why this build feels bad is because you use examples unrelated to the issue. Such as, a display case shouldn't do killing attack, just blunt HtH damage. A display case isn't an axe. As for the real world reference, you're also forgetting (or omitting) that the required Str Min does not add to the damage, just STR over that. A 13 STR character would do only 2d6K while a 25 STR character would do 2 1/2d6k.

 

Comparing 10DCs of HKA to 18DC of blunt damage is also a bad comparison. The same defenses don't necessarily apply depending on the target in question. And I'd be leery of any GM who allowed a PC hero to take a 4d6HKA (12 DC) saying it's equivalent to a 12d6 non-killing attack.

 

 

b. It's Excalibur... it is a light sabre.
No' date=' it's not. And for a number of reasons. But if this is another justification for you, we'll have to agree to disagree. (As an aside, did Lancelot ever weild Excalibur in the [i']Exalibur[/i] movie? I don't recall that.

 

4. Force wall is cheesy? Okay' date=' we can argue about exact levels, but let's see how it works in practice. Against an energy damage opponent, any strike that does 13 body knocks down the shield for 3 phases. How many energy strikes in a superpowered game with a 12 DC cap can regularly do 13 body? Why almost all of them. For physical attacks, it requires 15 body, pretty sure that 18 DC haymaker would do it quite easily, even a 6" move through would have a decent shot (14dc). Then there's that .50 cal sniper rifle you're so fond of, it might take a lucky shot, but it can do it.[/quote']Again, your justification for the forcewall is to compare two unrelated items as if they were equal. You're saying that since a 12DC attack *can* eventually do 13 or more Body, that it is equivalent to a 12DC+4DC Haymaker+2DC push. Do you see the imbalance? Consider the part that Pushing is NOT supposed to be done often (just in very heroic circumstances) and that the Haymaker takes extra time.

 

But here's where you are missing (or omitting) the key part:

Compare 15/12 Force Wall with a 15/12 Force Field or Armor.

First, let's take the 12d6 blast. On average, the blast will do 12 Body, 42 Stun. For a physical blast, your PC will take 0 Body/0 Stun with the Force Wall. For FF/Armor, your PC will take 19 Stun. (15 - 8 PD). For an Energy Blast, your PC will take 0 Body/0 Stun against a Force Wall and 22 Stun versus FF/Armor. If this happened 5 times in a Turn, your PC would take a total of 0 Body/0 Stun with a Force Wall. With FF/Armor, your PC would take from 95-110 Stun, depending on Physical or Energy. Do you see any difference what-so-ever?

 

We can argue about the appropriate level for the forcewall' date=' remember I invited you to suggest an appropriate level, but I think you're discounting the rather massive downside. When it goes down, and it's going to go down, for at least the next Phase and usually 2 or 3 he has virtually 0 resistance to anything.[/quote']I think "massive downside" is a bit of an exaggeration. Since you've designed this brick character as anti-brick (bricks tend to be your examples of why this build is justifiable), your character fighting a brick will have his Force Wall down *maybe* one extra phase. If your 4 SPD is fighting a 4 SPD brick, what does it matter if your FW is down on phase 4 or 5 when your opponent won't be going? Fighting a brick your PC's speed will mean that, in the unlikely event the FW goes down, it will be protecting the PC the next time an attck comes. Only if fighting someone who's Speed 5 or faster is there a chance he'll be harmed.

 

By contrast' date=' your armor construction provides permanent, persistent, 24-7, 365 coverage only this time, nothing short of 16 DC's can scratch. (nets a 38 pd vrs. STUN, and you'll basically never take Body damage ever).[/quote']Perhaps you should go read up again on the Focus Limitation. Only a munchkin GM/Player would believe that Armor bought with a Focus Limitation is on 24/7/365.

 

I'd like to see your reasoning on how Armor (using the same defense your FW does, or any example I provided) would 1) provide 38 PD and 2) allow one to never take Body EVER, especially how Armor would be a tougher build than a FW of the same, considering that the lack of BODY a character with Armor takes would mean a lack of BODY a character with FW would take, coupled with a LACK of Stun the FW character would take as well.

 

 

5. Um' date=' BS. Okay, I'm calling foul on your Brick that can lift a tank, people can't do that and even if they could the leverage exerted on his spinal cord would snap it in half. And your Speedster that breaks the sound barrier without being incinerated by the friction? Totally violates the laws of physics. Get where I'm going. I don't think historical realism has much place in a 350 pt. game.[/quote']If you're going to use the movie Excalibur as your source for justifying why your character's build is acceptable, then you have to use that same source for things that wouldn't be acceptable. You can't (without logical errors) state that "my character is based on this movie, but anything that contradicts my build is void because bricks are super strong and I hate bricks." Get where I'm going?

 

 

B) The shield as I explained earlier is a magical effect that looks like a shield' date=' rather than being a physical thing. It cannot be taken away as it is merely a shimmering energy field that resembles a circular shield with the crest of the Pendragons that happens to also "float" around Lancelot's right arm.[/quote']If it simply "floats" around his right arm, how do you justify it protecting him from all attacks?

 

8. Relative to riding. I don't ride' date=' I only know what I've seen on TV. If you say it's impossible to ride a horse with one hand, so be it. I'll pay for the skill, and reduce it to 0- roll to represent the impossibility. Or toss it out the window. But I think you're getting a little too resistant to some good natured suspension of disbelief. I mean do you require all speedsters to purchase +100 red (heat only -1/2) in order to travel at supersonic speeds?[/quote']Again, you're comparing two unequal issues. COMBAT Riding is not the same as RIDING. My point was that your not allowing nor explaining how this "missing one hand" is limiting your character. If you're not at a disadvantage, isn't not worth DISADVANTAGE points. What does the Disdavantage do for your character? Is he at a minus when Combat Riding? Is he at a minus doing anything?

 

10. Don't get it. Black paladin's magic armor and weapons are okay' date=' but Lancelot's aren't.[/quote']If you're going to question what I put, please read what I put. I said a PARALLEL Lancelot story would be justified. Read up on Black Paladin.

 

 

Almost everybody else "in tights" in such a campaign will at least be able to get up to 18 (12 DC + pushed +2 DC' date=' haymaker +4DC). And that's not counting the extreme funkiness of move throughs, which can go even higher.[/quote'][Emphasis mine.] Again, you're using some extreme circumstances to justify his "standard" defense. You're jessentially justifying a 15 point invulnerability because every once in a while an attack might be over the 12 DC.

 

If you won't propose a level of resistance that you think would be appropriate for a force wall character' date=' then I'm afraid we'll just have to agree to disagree.[/quote']:sigh: You're still not seeing what I'm talking about. First, you don't have any truly limiting limitations on your force wall. No Range and Self Only? Please, that doesn't limit YOUR character, now does it? Especially since your indirect attacks are specifically designed to bypass the FW.

 

Next, you have constantly avoided the stun value in a game. Which, with a heroic or superheroic game is what 90+% of the time is going to take a character out of a fight.

 

The only device in Gadgets and Gear that I can see that you reference previous is the Questionite Shield which uses FW with 16PD/16ED defenses (x2 Hardened). But what Limitations it has that your "shield" doesn't is OAF, RSR, Restricted Shape, Cannot Englobe. And personally, since it's a Captain America homage build, I wouldn't allow anyone to use that as a weapon who didn't have Captain America as their avatar. I could at least have some assurance that they woudn't abuse the build (with the other slots included).

 

I would like for you to explain how you see a 14 PD FW, where your PC won't take ANY Stun from even a (rare) 14 BODY/70 STUN attack, whereas you think Armor at 14PD is unreasonable when your PC would take 56 STUN. So anything that does less than 14 BODY (70STUN) will NEVER affect your character.

 

And in a 12DC game, how often will it happen to where your PC is alone without the aid of allies/teammates to assist when this rarity FW drops?

 

I think if you look back at the self-described rant you gave on your "Favorite Anti-Brick" thread you created, you'd see this character fits into that thread for someone to complain about. In that thread your stance is that character concept is better than uber-brick. In this thread, your stance seems to be that the uber-brickness is justifiable to supercede character concept.

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Re: [Character write up] Pargaon

 

It does limit Force Wall though. He can't protect others which is a mechanic built into forcewall, unless he dives for cover into them. And since forcewalls normally have range the no range mod works too.

 

I'm not trying to be a jackass but you're giving him grief over relatively common power builds.

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Re: [Character] Paragon

 

Based on the totality of the design, this character is a brick in everything but STR. He has brick-level BODY and brick-level defenses; and does brick-level damage (and killing damage at that). Is that the effect you were trying for, Psylint?

 

I wouldn't allow this character in our campaign as a hero, but we run a Silver Age game. He's just way too lethal; especially since it's fairly clear you intend to use MPA with the sword. In an Iron Age or darker game, he might fly. As a villain along the lines of Black Paladin, he'd be fine.

 

I do have some issues with the Restrainable on the shield. If it can cover him for all 360° around and it's not even a "real" shield, how would it be restrained? How is a shield Self Only? Paragon can't protect some fair maiden from bullets with his magic shield?

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Re: [Character] Paragon

 

Based on the totality of the design, this character is a brick in everything but STR. He has brick-level BODY and brick-level defenses; and does brick-level damage (and killing damage at that). Is that the effect you were trying for, Psylint?

 

I wouldn't allow this character in our campaign as a hero, but we run a Silver Age game. He's just way too lethal; especially since it's fairly clear you intend to use MPA with the sword. In an Iron Age or darker game, he might fly. As a villain along the lines of Black Paladin, he'd be fine.

 

I do have some issues with the Restrainable on the shield. If it can cover him for all 360° around and it's not even a "real" shield, how would it be restrained? How is a shield Self Only? Paragon can't protect some fair maiden from bullets with his magic shield?

He can if he dives for cover.

 

But I can see your (and Kirby's) points. He is a lethal fellow; the 3attacks with one sword per phase seems a bit much, I'd probably require a Multipower were I GM.

 

The shield is a bit of a mystery to me. Does it represent an actual shield or is it a force field of some sort? I might require a bit tighter SFX on it.

 

As to Brick in all but STR, I have no problem with that.

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Re: [Character] Paragon

 

Now is when Kirby should say "Just yankin' your chain, dude. Joking!"

 

I've rarely seen such elaborate cloaking of some good points with overabundant pickiness. Have you been reading what you are writing? Did Psylint kick your dog? Or your brick?

 

Have you looked at anything but the FW and the killing attacks Paragon is using? 13 Body damage in a 12DC game happens all the time. And a brick who bounces once off of Paragon is going to do the pushed attack for 14DC (which can easily get 15 Body), if not the haymaker. So a normal energy blast happens to do 13 Body. That's probably at least 52 Stun (4 x 13). Including the FW, Paragon has a stun number of 40 against energy attacks. So he is stunned. Since he is Spd 4, he loses 1/4 of his actions for that round, and is without a force wall. Since the Energy Projector is likely Spd 5, another shot comes in before he can recover. Now it's 12DC for an average of 42 points, but he only has 8 defense, so he takes another 34 Stun and probably 4 Body. That's a total of 66 Stun. He's out of the fight (I think, I didn't memorize his stun total). If he isn't, he soon will be.

 

It's a perfectly valid build. If all he faces are agents, it will be very effective. If he and his teammates face a halfway competent team, he will be a liability because they will have to drag his body along until he recovers, just about every fight.

 

Oh, and he has no movement capability and no ranged attacks.

 

I would disallow the character because it would not be any real use in a campaign. Oh, and I would not allow the multiple attack stuff against one opponent.

 

But it's a perfectly valid build.

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Re: [Character] Paragon

 

Now is when Kirby should say "Just yankin' your chain, dude. Joking!"

 

I've rarely seen such elaborate cloaking of some good points with overabundant pickiness. Have you been reading what you are writing? Did Psylint kick your dog? Or your brick?

 

Have you looked at anything but the FW and the killing attacks Paragon is using? 13 Body damage in a 12DC game happens all the time. And a brick who bounces once off of Paragon is going to do the pushed attack for 14DC (which can easily get 15 Body), if not the haymaker. So a normal energy blast happens to do 13 Body. That's probably at least 52 Stun (4 x 13). Including the FW, Paragon has a stun number of 40 against energy attacks. So he is stunned. Since he is Spd 4, he loses 1/4 of his actions for that round, and is without a force wall. Since the Energy Projector is likely Spd 5, another shot comes in before he can recover. Now it's 12DC for an average of 42 points, but he only has 8 defense, so he takes another 34 Stun and probably 4 Body. That's a total of 66 Stun. He's out of the fight (I think, I didn't memorize his stun total). If he isn't, he soon will be.

 

It's a perfectly valid build. If all he faces are agents, it will be very effective. If he and his teammates face a halfway competent team, he will be a liability because they will have to drag his body along until he recovers, just about every fight.

 

Oh, and he has no movement capability and no ranged attacks.

 

I would disallow the character because it would not be any real use in a campaign. Oh, and I would not allow the multiple attack stuff against one opponent.

 

But it's a perfectly valid build.

Legal, yes, although I'd want some clarification on some of the Limitations.

 

While his attacks would be quite lethal against any martial artist or moderately-defended characters, I've seen bricks who would no more than grunt if they were hit. And as has been noted any decent brick or EB who shoots him will be able to break the FW - I've seen martial artists who could do it easily too, with an AP or PEN attack.

 

Personally, in leiu of a shield I'd just call the FW a "mystic block" by Excaliber and roll it all into an EC. After all, legend said anyone wielding Excaliber in battle was invincible.

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