Summon, weak willed

[Kdansky]

I think I found something Errata-worthy. I searched for Summon and did not get any entry.

 

Summon, Advantages: Weak Willed, p225 5ER

For a +1/4 advantage, the summoned being receives -2 to its EGO rolls, for a +1/2 advantage, this becomes -4.

 

Now, these EGO rolls are only used in skill vs skill contests against the summoner. But these rolls are also at -1 for the summoner per every 10 Active points in the power. If you buy a summon for a 200 points (1000 point dragon) and make it weak willed, the AP increase to 250. So your roll goes from -20 to -25, you effectively lose 5 points in that roll, whereas the dragon only is at -2 in exchange. That makes the difference is 3 to my disadvantage if I pick this advantage.

 

I think it should work like decrease end (+1/4) which does not calculate itself into the END cost.

 

 

Also, it is kinda weird that the summoner has to pay more points to summon a being which has more EGO, effectively making the power worse. But I guess that cannot be fixed.

[Steve Long]

Re: Summon, weak willed

 

This isn't a rules question, but rather an observation, so I've moved it. To the extent the question is, "Is the rule for Weak-Willed mis-printed or incorrect?", the answer is "No."

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Summon, weak willed

 

Are you sure it's 10AP/Power, and not 10AP/Creature? I have to look this up now. I agree with you -- it doesn't make sense otherwise. If it is not written that way, that's an automatic rules adjustment for my campaign (as there are Summoners in the Halliruch Setting; nothing like seeing the Cleric cough up a Giant Eagle on command).

[Sean Waters]

Re: Summon, weak willed

 

It is not an error as such, but is a very good point, and something to look out for.

 

The summoner's EGO roll suffers a -1 per 10 active points in the summon.

 

Thus, we have this:

 

IF Cost of summon x 1/4 >= 20, there is no point in taking the weak willed advantage - it is counterproductive.

 

This would mean the break point is an 80 point summon (without the advantage).

 

The breakpoint for the +1/2 version is the same.

 

That means it does have a place, in that most summons will be below 80 points in most games: that allows, after all, a 400 point character to be summoned, but if is a good point that I han't spotted before that it becomes counterproductive, and the utility is waining with increased cost.

 

As that is pretty much contrary to the idea that you get what you pay for, I'd say that it definitely needs looking at.

 

Mind, you, as cost increases it becomes more cost effective to buy extra EGO or levels, limited to only affect the specific summoning contest:

 

5 point skill level with all EGO rolls, Only to affect the summoning contest (-1?): 2 1/2 points.

 

So, for 5 points you can gain +2 with the summoning roll, the effective equivalent of the summoned creature having -2, and the 'break point' where that becomes cost effective is a 20 point summon.

 

Nonetheless it is confusing and it might be better in future editions for the weak willed advantage to address itself to the divosor on the penalty: for a +1/4 the EGO penalty is -1 per 20 points, for example.

[Kdansky]

Re: Summon, weak willed

 

Well, to be honest, I would never use this advantage anyway. As soon as your summon gets decent point values (above about a hundred), it's cheaper anyway to just buy EGO or skill levels. Also, you don't get in trouble with AP limits, you don't pay more END and it fits better in frameworks (if allowed). So there's really no reason to ever take this. Amiable still makes sense though.

 

If the ego penalty was changed, that would actually make sense. I will be using that as a house rule until further notice.

 

What about EGO of the summoned creature? The more EGO it has, the more expensive the summon gets and the less good. Your creature should have an EGO defined as 10 + AP / x, with x somewhere at 5-20. Then Weak willed could change x, that would also work.

[Tonio]

Re: Summon, weak willed

 

What about EGO of the summoned creature? The more EGO it has' date=' the more expensive the summon gets and the less good. Your creature should have an EGO defined as 10 + AP / x, with x somewhere at 5-20. Then Weak willed could change x, that would also work.[/quote']

 

Well, more EGO is not automatically worse, nor less EGO better. Certainly, for purposes of keeping control, yes. But it also makes the summoned creature more vulnerable to enemy attacks involving the target's EGO.

 

I dunno, maybe the whole issue should be handled differently, with the Summon power getting a discount for summoned creatures that are tougher to control, regardless of whether it's a "special case" (strong willed) or because the creature has innately high EGO.

 

You're already paying for the "advantage" of your summoned creature having higher EGO, the same as you'd pay for higher STR, or for any other ability. There shouldn't be a reason why one of those abilities, arbitrarily, would make the power less convenient.

 

Or build all your summoned creatures by buying down all their EGO then purchasing +X EGO, Not To Resist Control by Summoner (-0).

[Sean Waters]

Re: Summon, weak willed

 

..............................

 

Or build all your summoned creatures by buying down all their EGO then purchasing +X EGO, Not To Resist Control by Summoner (-0).

 

 

You are a funny man. Surely that is worth a much bigger limitation value?