Limitation comments...

[Catseye]

Alright, forgive me if I've asked this already but I'm getting back to this project seriously after a long hiatus.

 

I's like to invite some useful opinions on the following limitation. (Note that "that sucks" in of itself is not a useful opinion.) Its for a low power fantasy game. I'm particularly interested in opinions on the multiplier/value chart.

 

Limitation: Breakable Weapon (Damage Maximum)

A weapon with this limitation can be broken by applying too much

strength to its use. If the weapon is "over-muscled" then it incurs a

burnout roll for weapon breakage at 9+(the number DCs over the max damage.)

 

The value of the limitation is according to its maximum safe DC expressed

as a multiple of the weapons base DC.

Maximum                  Value
Base DC                      -1
BaseDC * 1.5             -3/4
BaseDC * 2.0               -1.2
BaseDC * 2.5              -1/4
BaseDC * 3 or more        No value

Example:

Conehead the testosterone has lost his sword and picks up a club to smash his enemy with. The club is a 1D6 HTH attack (1DC), with a Damage Max of *2 (2DC). Conehead has a STR of 25 and in a beserk rage he swings with his full strength, which is +5D6. He connects and does the full 6D6 but must roll

a burnout for the club of 9+(6 -2) or 13 or less to break the club.

[Diamond Spear]

Re: Limitation comments...

 

I don't see a problem with the limitation as written but keep in mind that you can't more than double the damage of a weapon through STR. For example of you have a sword that does 1d6 killing with a STR MIN of 5 and someone with a 25 STR swings it it can still only do 2d6 killing.

 

In other words no weapon will ever be able to do more than double its base DC.

[Alibear]

Re: Limitation comments...

 

Damage classes increase base damage, which can then be doubled iirc.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Limitation comments...

 

I'd assume this is a limitation in a fantasy game or somesuch. Runequest (the OLD Runequest) used to have weapons which could take damage, that being a bronze age campaign.

 

Of course, we can dot hat with 'focus' but with a weapon it tends to eb all or nothing and USING it never causes you problems.

 

If I was going to adopt this level of 'realism' I would not make it a limitation but simply a campaign house rule:

 

Weapons have a DEF based on what they are made of, and a BODY of (say) 1 or 2 points per DC. They take damage every time they hit something as or more resilient than they are: hacking at an unarmoured target is unlikely to snap your bronze sword, but hacking at an iron breastplate might.

 

However, there is usually enough for me to keep track of without weapons falling apart to, so personally, I wouldn't bother.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Limitation comments...

 

Using your example, I question whether this is a limitation or an advantage. It sounds like the result expected is that Conehead can more than double the base DC's of the club, at the risk of breaking the club by applying more power than it's constructed to handle.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Limitation comments...

 

Using your example' date=' I question whether this is a limitation or an advantage. It sounds like the result expected is that Conehead [i']can[/i] more than double the base DC's of the club, at the risk of breaking the club by applying more power than it's constructed to handle.

 

Also, the general consideration for weapon breakage is part & parcel already of a combination of its DEF, BODY and the Real Weapon limitation.

 

Additionally, no, you can never do more than double a weapons base damage, unless you are using the Talent: Deadly Blow, which specifically states by rule that it extends the base damage of the weapon. For this very reason, many GMs (myself included) do not use it as written, but allow the damage to be applied outside the base damage, but still stack. i.e., if you have 1d6 of Deadly Blow, and a 1d6+1 Short Sword (4 DCs) and you have enough STR to double the damage (to 8 DCs) plus Haymaker (+2 DCs for a Killing Attack) the weapon would still cap at 8 DCs, and then Deadly Blow would add 1d6 on top of that.

 

As written, Deadly Blow would extend the base damage to 2d6+1 (7 DCs) allowing a full doubling to 14 DCs (4d6 1/2). A little too much damage for me.

[Catseye]

Re: Limitation comments...

 

I was planning on dropping the x2 rule with this in place... but you make an interesting point that maybe I ca cover both with an advantage "Can be over muscled". Let me play with that formulation a bit and Ill post something for consideration.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Limitation comments...

 

I was planning on dropping the x2 rule with this in place... but you make an interesting point that maybe I ca cover both with an advantage "Can be over muscled". Let me play with that formulation a bit and Ill post something for consideration.

 

Or, you can just go with "Yes, you can go beyond the damage threshold of the weapon, but any dice you use beyond it are counted separately, as they also deal damage to the weapon." So if you Push your Short Sword (1d6+1) with STR & a Haymaker to 10 DCs (3d6+1) you've gone two DCs over the cap of 8; the player rolls 8 dice of damage, and then two more which apply both to the target, and the weapon (which has a DEF & Body). If he rolls low, the DEF will take it. If he rolls high, he could plain old shatter the weapon.

 

This would only work on weapons with the Real Weapon limitation though; it's unlikely you'll shatter your magical sword, but if you want that to be a possibility, you should notify the players. I just think that once the rule is in place and they CAN push 'magical' weapons with no fear of breakage, you'll have more damage than you anticipated in your campaign.

[Catseye]

Re: Limitation comments...

 

Okay, how about this....

 

Advantage: Can be Overmuscled +1/4

The player can use his or her strength to more then double the DC of this weapon, however they must make a burn out check for breakage at 9 plus the number of DCs over double the weapon's base that they are doing.

 

Example:

Conehead the testosterone has lost his sword and picks up a club to smash his enemy with. The club is a 1D6 HTH attack (1DC), with a Damage Max of *2 (2DC). Conehead has a STR of 25 and in a beserk rage he swings with his full strength, which is +5D6. He connects and does the full 6D6 but must roll

a burnout for the club of 9+(6 -2) or 13 or less to break the club.

[Catseye]

Re: Limitation comments...

 

I follow the weapon DEF suggestion but its more bookeeping then I want to impose on the players. I'm looking for something a bit more streamlined and I like the burnout roll as a mechanism

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Limitation comments...

 

I follow the weapon DEF suggestion but its more bookeeping then I want to impose on the players. I'm looking for something a bit more streamlined and I like the burnout roll as a mechanism

 

Whatever makes you happy, dude. I'm just giving you the "this is already included and takes almost zero work on your part" to include answer that I myself would employ, or at the very least endorse. I think burnout won't rightly reflect weapon sizes, etc. & so forth, but you know. YMMV.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Limitation comments...

 

Okay, how about this....

 

Advantage: Can be Overmuscled +1/4

The player can use his or her strength to more then double the DC of this weapon, however they must make a burn out check for breakage at 9 plus the number of DCs over double the weapon's base that they are doing.

 

Example:

Conehead the testosterone has lost his sword and picks up a club to smash his enemy with. The club is a 1D6 HTH attack (1DC), with a Damage Max of *2 (2DC). Conehead has a STR of 25 and in a beserk rage he swings with his full strength, which is +5D6. He connects and does the full 6D6 but must roll

a burnout for the club of 9+(6 -2) or 13 or less to break the club.

 

This depends a lot on how easy you want the weapon to break, but note that a single DC over the maximum under this approach will be a 10- roll, which is a 50% chance of breaking the weapon, so any use of this rule will see a significant chance of weapon breakage. You may want to set the base lower if you want one or two DC to be a calculated risk, rather than a likely broken weapon.

[dstarfire]

Re: Limitation comments...

 

This sounds to me like just a flavoring of the boostable charges limitation. You'd take a number of boostable charges with decreased reuse duration defined as 'when I get a chance to care for/repair my weapons', add in Costs end, no STR bonus, and ... voila.

[Catseye]

Re: Limitation comments...

 

Sorry, I dont follow...

 

How does that end up producing a breakage roll dependent on the amount of strength over the max that is used?

 

Thats the mechanic Im looking for. It can be used forever, as long as you don't over-muscle it. If you DO over-muscle it, it has a chance of breaking dependent on how badly you over-muscle.

 

Imagine for a moment a 40 pound bow. Now imagine someone trying to pull it back with 100 pounds of pressure.

 

result-- snapped bow.

 

Thats the behavior I want to model.

[Adventus]

Re: Limitation comments...

 

Okay, how about this....

 

Advantage: Can be Overmuscled +1/4

The player can use his or her strength to more then double the DC of this weapon, however they must make a burn out check for breakage at 9 plus the number of DCs over double the weapon's base that they are doing.

 

Example:

Conehead the testosterone has lost his sword and picks up a club to smash his enemy with. The club is a 1D6 HTH attack (1DC), with a Damage Max of *2 (2DC). Conehead has a STR of 25 and in a berserk rage he swings with his full strength, which is +5D6. He connects and does the full 6D6 but must roll

a burnout for the club of 9+(6 -2) or 13 or less to break the club.

 

I would also recommend you have a version Advantage: Can be Overmuscled +3/4. This version doesn't have the breakage limitation. That would allow you to have magical weapons that wouldn't break when overmuscled. Which would allow lower cost magical weapons, but your players would have to watch it in combat. They could lose their magical toy....

[Catseye]

Re: Limitation comments...

 

Good point, thanks.

 

I also think the 3/4 might be useful for some really low-damage but hard to break weapons.