Natoxia, Home-Brewed Game - Need expert advice (Long)

[Catalyst]

I'm seeking the advice of any veteran Fantasy Hero GM's who have built their own world (or aspire to do so). I've spent the last several months working on mine, and feel I have a pretty solid start but as I've never done this before I'd be interested to hear if there are any glaring holes. I'm a long-time player (20ish years?), done quite a bit of DM/GM'ing, etc.

 

I have a pretty well-organized Word document that I can send to anyone interested, but I'll try to summarize what I've included in this "Player's Aid" so far:

 

World Introduction: contains several pages of world background. Exerpt:

 

The world of Natoxia is vast and everchanging, and rife with dark secrets.

 

Nations, lands, races, and individuals – all things in Natoxia have a predictable outer appearance. In an uncertain world, however, vulnerabilities can be exploited. What is unknown cannot then be used by others to gain advantage. Thus, most things are not what they may at first seem, and what you observe with your primary senses may be misleading. Careful investigation is often required to determine the true nature of a thing, whether the lowliest creature or the mightiest empire.

 

Character Creation Guidelines: Lists detailed guidelines on how to create a character. Provided "Maximum Starting Values" (at creation), a "Soft Cap" (the point at which costs double), and a "Hard Cap" (maximum possible value before equipment).

 

Races: 5 Human races (A spartan-type, seagoing people, two clans of savages, two clans of northmen), and four non-human races (mountain dwarves, rock gnomes, fae, and minotaurs). A huge thanks to Killer Shrike for such great source material -- I shamelessly used some of his work in creating races.

 

Archetypes: 8 types, Arcane and divine magic skill types only at this point (my watchword at the moment is simplicity, can add complexity later as needed). Magic is restricted by maximum active points and requires a skill roll, no EC/Multipowers/PP structures (both for simplicity and balance). Archetypes are proposed characters, nothing more, suited to help novices get started quickly.

 

A page on custom character guidelines, and other suggested archetypes.

 

Deities: A pantheon of six deities, along with some alternate "Lesser" deity suggestions.

 

A few adventuring groups/guilds, though the specifics are not fully fleshed out at the moment.

 

A world political map, and an overland map for the area where the players will start (both using Campaign Cartographer 3).

 

The players begin within a struggling Kingdom bordered by a rapidly expanding empire. The Kingdom is still currently resisting overtures by the empire to join them, though the pressure is increasing for the King to surrender his sovereignty, but he steadfastly and stubbornly refuses to do so. The empire has recently established the Legion, a powerful organized fighting force unmatched in the land.

 

Epic Storyline: Players begin performing routine quests and tasks as part of an established adventuring group. As they go on missions, over the course of the first few sessions it becomes apparent that something strange is occurring. Initiialy, only a few NPC's that the players get to know suddenly begin behaving erratically and out of character. The first major introduction to the epic storyline occurs when the players discover proof that an NPC the players know and trust has committed an unspeakable act. Things will naturally progress and become more interesting from there...

 

Regarding calendar, coinage, and # of suns/moons, I don't have a strong opinion either way though I recognize the need to make a decision on those -- my instinct tells me to keep it simple and use something that aligns with our world.

 

This is my first time GM'ing Hero, and my player's first time with the system as well (yay!) I'm seeking any tips you all might have to shore up my gameworld's weaknesses and also any "gotchas" about the system in general.

 

Also, do you think there's a need to regulate the amount of magic hybrid type warrior-mage characters can obtain, or does the system do a fair job of self-regulating?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

C

 

P.S. If anyone wants to see the Word doc with my character races/archetypes and provide suggestions/critiques, I'd be eternally grateful

[eternal_sage]

Re: Natoxia, Home-Brewed Game - Need expert advice (Long)

 

looks good!

[Manic Typist]

Re: Natoxia, Home-Brewed Game - Need expert advice (Long)

 

I'm quite intrigued. I look forward to further details.

[Catalyst]

Re: Natoxia, Home-Brewed Game - Need expert advice (Long)

 

I'm quite intrigued. I look forward to further details.

 

My 29 page player's guide is now complete, as is the overland map. Anyone interested is welcome to a copy -- just send me a PM (I promise, it's much more organized than my sloppy post above)

[MorpheousXO]

Re: Natoxia, Home-Brewed Game - Need expert advice (Long)

 

question, is there any kind of point savings with the magic system, since ec/mp/vp (I assume that's what PP meant was VP) are out, then divide real cost by 3 ala Turakian? If there isn't any I wouldn't expect any truly dedicated spellcasters as they just won't compare to the physical experts.

[Catalyst]

Re: Natoxia, Home-Brewed Game - Need expert advice (Long)

 

That's precisely the kind of feedback I needed. I had seriously considered the "divide cost by 3" system but wasn't sure if it would overpower mages.

 

The other thing I was thinking was that arcane mages could scribe scrolls to increase their power that way. I wasn't sure if that would unbalance things, but my thought was that since I could adjust the flow of scrolls into the campaign as needed, it could be kept under control. Has anyone tried this / would it work?

[Markdoc]

Re: Natoxia, Home-Brewed Game - Need expert advice (Long)

 

question' date=' is there any kind of point savings with the magic system, since ec/mp/vp (I assume that's what PP meant was VP) are out, then divide real cost by 3 ala Turakian? If there isn't any I wouldn't expect any truly dedicated spellcasters as they just won't compare to the physical experts.[/quote']

 

Not necessarily trrue - but you likely won't see D&D mages with lots of spells: what you are more likely to get are "cleric-type" caster who rely on armour and weapons with a few Buff spells to aid them in combat, or specialised characters who know only a small number of noncombat spells (like thief-mages)

 

It can be quite viable, but it depends what flavor you want.

 

cheers, Mark

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Natoxia, Home-Brewed Game - Need expert advice (Long)

 

Unfortunately I have too many books I'm already working on, but if I can clear my plate I'll certainly review the word document. Primarily what I saw from your post was very conventional; you aren't really straining the boundaries of what's known in a fantasy setting. Basic humans, a few core non-humans, some magic, and a plotline. So from that angle, it certainly seems that you've got everything covered. What I usually want to know are more esoteric things:

 

* How powerful is magic? If I want to play a spell caster, how powerful can I expect to be in relation to the other players?

 

* What kind of threats will I be facing? Is this a monster ridden world? A civilized one? If I see a monster, should I freak right out? How far out do I have to go from civilization to see one? Are they balanced to the eco-system? Do they make sense? Are they suddenly just roaming free, anime style?

 

* What are common professions? Is "adventurer" common? Do people "go adventuring?" Can they retire after two dungeon raids? How are things balanced across the spectrum of character advancement & wealth management?

 

* What kinds of magic items will I find? Is this a high or low magic world? Are gods (again, to clarify, I'm referring to fictional gods, not G-d) real? Do they have real power? This is a question I've intentionally left unanswered in my own campaign, for my own reasons, but it's an important one.

 

* Do you intend to have, say, Wizard magic work differently from Clerical magic? Are you looking to break away from the basic White/Black convention? Throw in some Final Fantasy and have either Red or Blue magic to go along with it?

 

That's just me, though. Hope that some of that gets your mind moving.

[eternal_sage]

Re: Natoxia, Home-Brewed Game - Need expert advice (Long)

 

flipped through the Player's Aid you sent me, and it all looks good. reading through some of the Archtypes/Races, i have to wonder: have you looked into the Warlords of the Accordlands RPG? its just that some of your ideas are similar to those in that setting (Seers, and Mercenaries troops being a major part of the world, etc).

 

but the only questions i have is these: what feel are you going with for this campaign? is it High Fantasy, Low Fantasy, something in between? and, what are you doing about money/gear/etc?

 

it feels pretty good and low, which is cool, because in that case your magic system will probably be fine. if its more High (DnD-esque) then you may want to consider using frameworks of somekind or a base 1/3rd cost or some other method to reduce costs.

 

since i didn't see any pricelists, etc, i'm assuming that you are using one from a book? basically, this sort of dovetails into the above question as well, in that if magic and gear is hard to come by, its not a big deal either way. but if your gear is cheap (via money) and your magic is expensive (via CP) then wizards are going to be rare. not that this is wrong, since the world feels pretty low magic anyway, to me.

 

ultimately, i think it sounds interesting, and i wish you luck! building a homebrew world (which i take to be what you are inexperienced with) is a big endeavor, but one that is ultimatly worth it. i think you are definately going in the right direction.

[Catalyst]

Re: Natoxia, Home-Brewed Game - Need expert advice (Long)

 

This is all very helpful feedback. Just got back from the first session, and players seemed quite happy with what I've come up with so far, for the most part. There were certainly several questions that were a bit tough to answer, but that's every GM's burden

 

I must say, Fantasy Hero is FAR more complex than DnD. We spent the vast majority of our time figuring out the more complex rules together (and this is after I've spent a great deal of time with both the 5ER and the Fantasy Hero book)

 

I decided to go with the "divide spell cost by 3" system, which seems like it might have been the right way to go, based on the player's reactions and how their characters are shaping up.

 

Thia - there are a lot of great questions there, and I imagine most of them are meant rhetorically. I will certainly give these issues some careful thought, as I can see how important they are to immersion. Some of them I have a pretty good idea how it will work -- truly fantastic monsters will be pretty rare, though humanoid creatures/monsters aren't uncommon in the untamed, frontier lands.

 

My intention is for caster types to not necessarily compete with fighter types in terms of raw damage, but instead would have more diverse powers and overall wouldn't be significantly weaker than their warrior counterparts. My current plan is to have magic appear in many different forms, but overall it would be significantly less common than standard DnD fare. Initially, players will be able to choose arcane or divine magic.

 

One player, for example, is making a character who has made a pact with a powerful entity (tbd), in exchange for his magical abilities. His concept is pretty cool -- part of the deal was he accepted the services an imp-like follower who is ostensibly his "familiar", but is also watching him to be sure he is keeping his end of the bargain.

 

Eternal_Sage: Thanks for taking the time to do that. I'm not familiar with the RPG you mentioned, must be coincidence. I would say it's "medium" fantasy -- it's not used in everyday life, people are aware of wizards and their ilk but you don't bump into them on the streets everyday.

 

Both magic and gear will be hard to come by, after the initial characters are created. The Kingdom where the campaign begins has economic trouble, so that will make it easy to control prices (ie, swords/armor will be expensive or hard to come by). I have a pretty good grasp of magic item distribution from years of DnD DM'ing, so I'm not concerned about overpowering them in that way (I tend to give out charged or temporary items, and an occassional low powered permanent item).

 

Whew. Lots to think about. Thanks again for all the input.

 

The burning question I have at the moment is this: how in the world do you balance the personal "Force field" power in Fantasy Hero? From what I can tell, a 30 Active Point FF can be built to easily block all the damage that the most powerful attack that our best warrior can dish out. Am I reading this wrong? If I'm not -- sheesh, it seems ridiculously overpowered and I'll either have to increase the cost dramatically or ban it altogether.

[eternal_sage]

Re: Natoxia, Home-Brewed Game - Need expert advice (Long)

 

you are reading it correctly, and you will have that trouble from all defense powers. HERO has the idea that defenses should be cheaper than damage (which i only agree with in a Supers game, and then only barely). so, i tend to write up all the spells in my own games, but if you want to be more freeform, i'd go with simply doubling the cost, or enforcing Costs END (for Armor) and Increased END for Force Field, so that they work, they just only work for a few rounds, then your out of it. its a hard call, but most players will be fine with a simple soft-cap or some such.

[Markdoc]

Re: Natoxia, Home-Brewed Game - Need expert advice (Long)

 

The burning question I have at the moment is this: how in the world do you balance the personal "Force field" power in Fantasy Hero? From what I can tell, a 30 Active Point FF can be built to easily block all the damage that the most powerful attack that our best warrior can dish out. Am I reading this wrong? If I'm not -- sheesh, it seems ridiculously overpowered and I'll either have to increase the cost dramatically or ban it altogether.

 

If you change the cost of FF you need to consider all defence - because otherwise people will just take spells that give them armour, or resistant PD...

 

You have stumbled across the MOST important secret to successfully running a FH game: you need to have a careful handle on magic. In D&D, magic was restricted by reducing the caster's combat potential (HP, BAB) and casting potential (access to spells, number of spells per day and access by level). FH only really has an equivalent to the last one (access by points) built-in. The GM has to suply the rest of the checks and balances.

 

My suggestion is to think very carefully about the place of mages in your game and then build accordingly. If you expect all characters use magic, then it's not such an issue - points cost will balance to a large extent.

 

If you want mages to be on a equal footing with the other (non-magic-using) members of the party, you need to restrict magic to a significant extent - you've already noted that a 30 PD forcefield makes a mage all but immune to conventional weaponry - and under the Turakian magic system, that spell - with a few standard mage limitations like gestures and incantation to start - is going to cost 3 or 4 points.

 

Even if you disallow such obvious fromageomancy, there are plenty of obvious dealbreakers - the "Wizard's Shield" spell from the Grimoire costs a few points and grants the wizard better protection than the finest armour. Give him that spell, a good stat line, a few CSLs an ordinary two-handed sword, plus "Spell of Titantic Might" from the Grimoire and you have a magically enhanced warrior, who'll tear a squad of normal warriors limb from limb : and I chose spells with a low casting penalty, so he doesn't need to spend a lot on his casting roll.

 

Now I wouldn't want to rule that concept right out - the mystically enhanced warrior: a paladin, an pseudo celtic Warped one or similar - is a fine concept (I have both kinds in my game).

 

But there needs to be some limit. If he can cast effective combat spells at will - plus fly and turn invisible - the other party members are going to start feeling like henchmen. If, on the other hand, he can do all that stuff for a limited number of phases, then he becomes a powerful asset to the party - but not the solution to every problem.

 

KS covers these design considerations in detail on his site (you do have it bookmarked, right? ). I do the same on my site here:

http://www.geocities.com/markdoc.geo/Gaming_stuff/Grimoire/designing_magical_worlds.htm

 

If you want to lay out some idea of where you want mages to be in the grand scheme of things and how you want them to behave in-game, we can probably offer some suggestions.

 

cheers, Mark

[The Monster]

Re: Natoxia, Home-Brewed Game - Need expert advice (Long)

 

In the Fantasy Hero game I ran for several sessions, magic use was fairly well balanced without much fiddling. Of course, I had the advantage of designing all the player's spells myself, since no one else knew the system very well. The two primary balancing factors on magic that struck me at the time were END cost and casting time. END cost is pretty straightforward, especially if you disallow END reserves and Reduced END. If you want to further limit defensive magic, one easy fix that you might consider is simply doubling END cost; that still makes it doable but expensive enough to perhaps trigger second thoughts (at that point, that nigh-invulnerable 14PD FF is costing you 6-8 END per Turn, on top of any other END you spend to move, attack, etc., and that's going to eat up most of your post-12 REC right there).

 

Casting time can be a severe limitation in the field, especially if you disallow multiple casting. One character I had was a spell-buffed fighter: by the time he cast his armor boost, and then his attack boost, and then his damage boost, the fight was well under way, and usually half the field away from him. He was pretty potent once he got going, but his buildup time became a standing joke in the campaign.

[Catalyst]

Re: Natoxia, Home-Brewed Game - Need expert advice (Long)

 

For anyone interested, my campaign now has a wiki, complete with map -- it's a work in progress, haven't ported all the content over yet.

 

http://rpg.roxanne.org/natoxia/index.php/Main/HomePage

[Cargus10]

Re: Natoxia, Home-Brewed Game - Need expert advice (Long)

 

Flash is another area that will cause you stomach pains - there's not a lot of non-magical flash defense in the average fantasy setting!

 

Designing spells yourself is a lifesaver. Not only does increased END balance things, but so do Extra Time (as mentioned), concentration (the DCV penalty makes them think twice), and making the spell "hard" (-1 to the roll for each 5AP). Hard to get expendable foci can also help. Also keep an eye on anyone wanting delayed effect or triggers to get around some of the limitations!