Nightlord256 Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 First off, I'm no astrophysicist or structural engineer so forgive the impossibilities I'm proposing a normal Dyson, a sphere 1 AU in radius surrounding a sun entirely. Now if there was a propulsion system that could move this sphere, is it theoretically possible for the sun to move along with it inside? I'm envisioning a GIANT world ship of a race that consumes all, they travel from galaxy to galaxy harvesting them dry. anyone got any ideas where to start for the writeup and how to at least make it sound scientifically possible? Thanks for the help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSgt Baloo Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 Re: Dyson Sphere Ship A civilization that advanced may have devised a propulsion system that creates a uniform gravitic pull (avoiding tidal effects) that encompasses the entire Dyson sphere and its contents. Another consideration might be that the Dyson Sphere is propelled by an Alcubierre drive, and therefore the propulsion system does not place unequal stresses on the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightlord256 Posted January 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 Re: Dyson Sphere Ship Wow! that Alcubierre drive looks really cool, thanks for the link! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyrath Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 Re: Dyson Sphere Ship There was a traveling Dyson sphere in the Cuckoo series by Jack Williamson and Frederik Pohl. Farthest Star and Wall Around a Star, or collected in The Saga of Cuckoo. I don't recall the propulsion system, but they did have a series of titanic tubes in the skin. These moved a dense fluid at a high velocity so as to use centrifugal force to prevent the sphere wall from collapsing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curufea Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 Re: Dyson Sphere Ship For a solid shell Dyson, artifical gravity is kinda necessary for it to actually function at all - so with that already in place it wouldn't be too hard to move it. The sun could probably be moved with magnetics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireTiger Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 Re: Dyson Sphere Ship Another idea that could probably be a "given" is that they'd also have huge amounts of energy to play with; they'd likely be able to harvest nearly every form of energy emitted by the star. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 Re: Dyson Sphere Ship I don't even wanna try to figure out how much body a Dyson Sphere would have. Suffice to say that it's a LOT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightlord256 Posted January 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 Re: Dyson Sphere Ship wow! thanks for all the input and ideas guys! My players are going to love (hate) fighting (running away from) this. and instead of how much body it has, which is kind of irrelevant in the long run how big a hole would you need to blow in it's shell to cause it to collapse? (or series of strategically placed holes)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 Re: Dyson Sphere Ship wow! thanks for all the input and ideas guys! My players are going to love (hate) fighting (running away from) this. and instead of how much body it has, which is kind of irrelevant in the long run how big a hole would you need to blow in it's shell to cause it to collapse? (or series of strategically placed holes)? I'll give you a hint...the Terran Empire doesn't own enough anti-matter missiles to make it happen;) But maybe there's a small unshielded thermal exhaust port or something... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 Re: Dyson Sphere Ship Hah! Just disable one AG node and watch the thing crumble in on itself! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted January 29, 2008 Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 Re: Dyson Sphere Ship Hah! Just disable one AG node and watch the thing crumble in on itself! "yes, but you forget...on this vessel, every personal escape pod.... ....is a Deathstar." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curufea Posted January 29, 2008 Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 Re: Dyson Sphere Ship Hah! Just disable one AG node and watch the thing crumble in on itself! Doubtful - it's getting an equal pull from all directions towards the sun, I'm not sure what ratio of Earth gravities it is though at 1AU. Probably around 4G. However, turning off the AG would cause everything on the inside to start drifting off the surface (there's more mass horizontally and above you than below you) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireTiger Posted January 29, 2008 Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 Re: Dyson Sphere Ship I don't even wanna try to figure out how much body a Dyson Sphere would have. Suffice to say that it's a LOT. Hehe, true, at 300 million km in diameter, I think we could safely borrow a term from Mekton and plunk it firmly into the Excessive Scale. Were I to attempt to destroy it, I'd probably try developing a weapon to destabilize the star (nova-induction is my first choice), and then sneaking the weapon inside the sphere in order to deploy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Major Tom Posted January 29, 2008 Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 Re: Dyson Sphere Ship That'd just about be the only way that anyone would have a chance at being even remotely able to damage a Dyson Sphere, since they'd have the proverb- ial snowball's chance in the nether regions of penetrating the outer shell of such a construct, especially if it's composed of (the as-yet sci-fi element) Neutronium. Major Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comic Posted January 29, 2008 Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 Re: Dyson Sphere Ship You could cheat, and just go with good old fashioned world-scale O'Neill cylinders, instead of a sphere. (http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57216) A fleet of a million coordinated ships each with the surface area of a planet, a cross-section so thin that at astronomical distances they're stealth-bombers, and because they're coordinated, each of them commanding the energy of a star at need. That is, if they expected opposition. Heading out in all directions to the nearest million other sources of mass, these Turing vessels would accumulate mass, reproduce their patterns, and expand ever outward much faster than a single sphere. How much more despair, upon the arrival of one, when you know by your telescopes how many other worlds already have fallen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireTiger Posted January 29, 2008 Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 Re: Dyson Sphere Ship You could cheat' date=' and just go with good old fashioned world-scale O'Neill cylinders, instead of a sphere. [/quote'] I recall one of those colony cylinders being turned into an excessive scale laser cannon in the original Mobile Suit GUNDAM series. Hmmm... if they're advanced enough to actually manipulate gravity (among other energies), they could sacrifice a small percentage of the sphere's inner surface area to a drive port/weapon lens—using stellar flares (especially induced ones) as a potential thruster and/or weapon. (Ouch.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestnik Posted January 29, 2008 Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 Re: Dyson Sphere Ship Hah! Just disable one AG node and watch the thing crumble in on itself! Wouldn't that take several million years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted January 29, 2008 Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 Re: Dyson Sphere Ship I've got time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSandman Posted January 30, 2008 Report Share Posted January 30, 2008 Re: Dyson Sphere Ship ... especially if it's composed of (the as-yet sci-fi element) Neutronium. Major Tom Unobtainium is much less costly and far easier to find... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merovign Posted January 30, 2008 Report Share Posted January 30, 2008 Re: Dyson Sphere Ship If you used a ring or series of rings instead of a sphere, you could move the ring to induce an oscillation in the star and eventually a jet of mass which would become propulsion - i.e. using the star as an engine to move you to another star to take over and use as the new engine. Don't ask me how I would do that. But the "special effect" of an asymmetrically jetting star dragging a Dyson Ring is easy enough to visualize. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestnik Posted January 30, 2008 Report Share Posted January 30, 2008 Re: Dyson Sphere Ship If you used a ring or series of rings instead of a sphere' date=' you could move the ring to induce an oscillation in the star and eventually a jet of mass which would become propulsion[/quote'] How much time does "eventually" mean here? To move a star you've got to overcome some pretty serious inertia. I'm guessing a few hundred thousand years, minimum, before the star actually starts to go anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted January 30, 2008 Report Share Posted January 30, 2008 Re: Dyson Sphere Ship Unobtainium is much less costly and far easier to find... you're both wrong! Bullxhittium is definitely the way to go... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCoy Posted January 30, 2008 Report Share Posted January 30, 2008 Re: Dyson Sphere Ship With anti-gravity all things are possible. Dyson's original concept wasn't a solid shell. but a cloud of O'Neil colonies, factories, and Solar Power Satellites that captured virtually every photon of the star they orbited. Humm, imagine a G-type star orbiting a neutron star a couple of light years away. The G-type star has a civilization that builds a "Dyson Cloud" around it, and builds satellites around the neutron star to manipulate its magnetic field and direct flares to move the neutron star (and its associated G-type star). As they pass other star systems ships can be dispatched to strip them of their comets, asteroids, even planets. They might use the gravity of the neutron star to capture other G-type stars in orbit around the neutron star, and form more "Dyson Clouds" around them. As their original star comes toward the end of it's useful lifetime, they could capture a young star, move the cloud from one to the other, and set some satellites around the old star like those around the neutron star to jettison it to a safe distance before it goes nova. Using jets from the neutron star to move the system is going to eventually diminish its mass, so pick up a few red dwarfs that can be canabilized for fuel. Place one at a time inside the Roche limit, so its mass will be sucked into the neutron star. Don't feed in too much, you don't want the neutron star to turn into a black hole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCoy Posted January 30, 2008 Report Share Posted January 30, 2008 Re: Dyson Sphere Ship How much time does "eventually" mean here? To move a star you've got to overcome some pretty serious inertia. I'm guessing a few hundred thousand years, minimum, before the star actually starts to go anywhere. Remember compound interest. If I'm doing the math right, an acceration of 1 meter per century squared will get you to ten per cent of the speed of light in just over half a million years. Yes, it's difficult for us to imagine making plans on those time scales, but a species who has conquered Natural Causes, or a postbiotic AI civilization, may see it differently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightlord256 Posted January 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2008 Re: Dyson Sphere Ship wow, I am continually impressed by you guys input! So here is the design i've settled on: A large dyson cloud, made up of millions of smaller ships. The ships all lock together around a star to use its energy to get from galaxy to galaxy. This world fleet sends several ships in advance to scout out the new galaxy and find suitable feeding sites. upon arrival of the 'world ship' all the smaller ships unlock and head to different systems to harvest minerals, the exact number of ships per group is Dependant on the threat level of the natives and the amount of resources to be collected. The actually race I am envisioning now, is a race of sentient AIs, that can create forms of physical energy (like the drej from titan AE). each individual ship would be about the size of the Drej mothership I will post write ups for their individual ships and energy forms as i come up with them. Thanks again for all your help guys!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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