Mental Powers to... what?

[Chris Goodwin]

I was thinking recently about the existence of Mental Powers.

 

We have a common mechanic defining what is essentially a common set of SFX. Herein I will use "psionic(s)" to refer to the SFX and "Mental Powers" to refer to the same thing that the HERO System refers to as "Mental Powers".

 

As written, the system does not support taking other Powers and turning them into Mental Powers, even though the other Powers could be defined as psionic in nature. (Note I said "as written". I'm not saying you can't house rule it, and in fact I have.)

 

One can easily take Mental Powers and, either as is or with a Limitation, define them as not being psionic in nature.

 

Why did the original designers settle on that specific set of SFX, and no other (for example, magic) to be represented by a separate set of mechanics? Note that there is no other unique mechanic for Magical Powers, not like there is for Mental Powers. There's no characteristic for Magical Ability, nor is there an MCV nor any Powers that are based specifically upon it. But what if there were?

 

I don't have a problem with it, by the way. I'm just curious.

[GamePhil]

I honestly don't understand what you are saying. Mental Powers are Powers that act against the mind and will, thus they have their own stat. They are cross-genre, and the idea that "willpower" is something everyone possesses is easy to imagine, regardless of style of campaign.

 

There is nothing stopping Mental Powers from being magical, or your Energy Blast from being Psionic.

 

A magical ability score, on the other hand, is something that is genre specific, and therefore not appropriate for a generic game, and of dubious usefulness in the old Champions game.

 

Could you explain with smaller words, please?

[GamePhil]

Hmm, I think I begin to see: Mental Powers are just a category of Power, ones that affect the mind. Why would you need to re-categorize, say, Energy Blast as a Mental Power?

[Lord Liaden]

I'm not completely sure where your problem lies, so let me go through some of the basic concepts regarding these powers in HERO, and maybe we can find common language :

 

Since at least the time that the 4E Ultimate Mentalist was published, HERO has made a distinction between mental powers and Mental Powers. The former is the SFX for any power derived from psionic energy/ mind/ will etc., which can apply to almost any Power in the HERO System. The latter is a particular group of Powers with similar game mechanics. These are Powers which cover most of the character abilities commonly seen in books, film, t.v. and comics which directly affect someone's mind: the ability to locate a living mind (Mind Scan), read someone's thoughts (Telepathy), control their minds through force of will (Mind Control), project illusions into someone's mind (Mental Illusions), or cause them pain or unconsciousness (Ego Attack). The ability of these Powers to work over any distance, be resisted by force of will, and the like are intended to reflect how such abilities are most often depicted.

 

There are abilities from the source material which are less common, or can be represented by existing Powers and giving them "mental" SFX, such as Telekinesis or Clairsentience. These are usually depicted as functioning differently from the purely mind-affecting abilities, so the game mechanics are different. It's certainly possible to give these other Powers mechanical effects similar to Mental Powers through use of the Based on Ego Combat Value Advantage and others. The way that BOECV interacts with various Powers is described in The Ultimate Mentalist; there are also specific examples in the online FAQ under "Mental Powers", "Based on Ego Combat Value" and the description of individual Powers, including Telekinesis, Entangle and Killing Attack.

 

I hope some of that helped clarify things. If not, feel free to post a followup and we'll see what we can do.

[johnflang]

I understood the orginal question and know of no way to make it clearer. However, Lord Liaden response indicates he did understand the question and answer it. Thanks, I too had this same question and I like your answer.

[Hugh Neilson]

Originally posted by GamePhil

Hmm, I think I begin to see: Mental Powers are just a category of Power, ones that affect the mind. Why would you need to re-categorize, say, Energy Blast as a Mental Power?

 

We already do - it's an Ego Attack, Visible (10 AP; 8 real cost per die).

 

Or its an EB - Based on ECV (10 AP and real cost per die - 2 pts per die extra for lopping off one sense group...)

[GamePhil]

Originally posted by johnflang

I understood the orginal question and know of no way to make it clearer. However, Lord Liaden response indicates he did understand the question and answer it. Thanks, I too had this same question and I like your answer.

 

Interesting, since Lord Liaden also said he didn't know what the problem was, and answered basically the same way I did but in greater detail.

 

But, whatever works.

[GamePhil]

Originally posted by Hugh Neilson

We already do - it's an Ego Attack, Visible (10 AP; 8 real cost per die).

 

Or its an EB - Based on ECV (10 AP and real cost per die - 2 pts per die extra for lopping off one sense group...)

 

The first one is a Mental Power, and gives you Mental Awareness, and is Invisible, and so on. The second one isn't.

 

However, if all that is required is a re-categorization of things into the category, "Menatl Powers", the book says that you can freely move between the categories if it is deemed appropriate. I'm, again, at a loss to understand what isn't there from his description.

[Chris Goodwin]

I guess my original question is this: we have a category, Mental Powers, that generally (but not always) encompasses an SFX. Why can't we come up with other such categories, one being Magical Powers?

[Lord Liaden]

I guess my answer would be: certainly we could, if we could agree on game mechanics that would reflect the most common way that "Magic" functions in all the source material. Given the incredible range of abilities displayed under the heading of magic, I don't think that's likely.

 

Since "Mental Powers" are mostly (though not always) a subset of "mental powers", it would not be that difficult to create particular subsets of "magic powers": Elemental magic, Illusion magic, etc. Beyond that, though, I don't think there's any one category of magic that immediately lends itself to an entire range of Powers with the same mechanics, as there is with mental powers.