Teleportation, Triggered

[Tonio]

If a character buys Teleportation, Trigger (auto-reset immediately, takes no time, "mental command"), can he now do a half move with t-port and still take an action that takes a full phase? What about a full move with t-port? What about multiple moves?

[Doc Samson]

Re: Teleportation, Triggered

 

Yes, yes, and yes. This is a banned build in our game, though if you modify it so it takes a zero phase action to reset (limiting the character to one teleport between phases) it's more playable.

 

Teleportation, Trigger (mental command), Trigger is an action that takes no time, Trigger resets automatically, immediatley (+1)

ACTIONS WHICH TAKE NO TIME

Fourth are Actions which take no time. As the

term implies, these Actions take no time to perform;

a character may perform them whenever

he wishes (even on a Segment in which he doesn’t

have a Phase) and as often as he wishes. Examples

including making a Presence Attack, making a

soliloquy, or making a roll at the GM’s request.

The character can even teleport on segments in which he deosn't have a phase. Effectivley the character has unlimited movement at any time.

[Tonio]

Re: Teleportation, Triggered

 

Ok, so how would I build a power that would let me teleport (half, or full, whichever really works... preferably full, though), only during my Phase, but only once, and still allow me to take a full Phase's worth of actions? Basically, how can I make t-port be a Zero Phase Action?

 

Alternatively, since this t-port will actually be quite limited (character can deploy one or more Images of himself, and can only t-port to switch with an Image), assuming I do allow it as an action that takes no time (or a zero phase action), this would allow him to t-port to an Image to avoid an attack without Aborting, right? Would this require a DEX roll as if he were holding an action?

[Doc Samson]

Re: Teleportation, Triggered

 

Ok, so how would I build a power that would let me teleport (half, or full, whichever really works... preferably full, though), only during my Phase, but only once, and still allow me to take a full Phase's worth of actions? Basically, how can I make t-port be a Zero Phase Action?

 

Alternatively, since this t-port will actually be quite limited (character can deploy one or more Images of himself, and can only t-port to switch with an Image), assuming I do allow it as an action that takes no time (or a zero phase action), this would allow him to t-port to an Image to avoid an attack without Aborting, right? Would this require a DEX roll as if he were holding an action?

 

Buy the Trigger as a Zero Phase action to activate. This means that it can only be used on your phase and before an attack or full round action.

 

5ER pg. 360 has rules for resolving simultaneous actions. Note that if you opt for a Dex roll, you cannot then abort.

[Tonio]

Re: Teleportation, Triggered

 

Buy the Trigger as a Zero Phase action to activate. This means that it can only be used on your phase and before an attack or full round action.

 

5ER pg. 360 has rules for resolving simultaneous actions. Note that if you opt for a Dex roll, you cannot then abort.

 

Many, many thanks. I believe this works perfectly for what we want. I guess the character can still t-port mutliple times before attacking, moving, or whatever, but a) he'll be using extra END or Charges, and it's really trivial anyway, since he can't do anything between those t-ports.

 

(Btw, did you edit your post before I replied? I coulda sworn I read "5ER pg. 20 has rules...". I was gonna say pg 20 took me to the Glossary, and that I'd found what you described on pg 360.)

[Sean Waters]

Re: Teleportation, Triggered

 

Can you build it? Sure.

 

Can you play it in a game I'm running? Hell, no.

[Tonio]

Re: Teleportation, Triggered

 

Can you build it? Sure.

 

Can you play it in a game I'm running? Hell, no.

 

Did you mean the original, or the Zero Phase version? I dunno, I think the Zero Phase version is pretty balanced, since all it does is let you do a full teleport at the beginning of every phase. Meaning you could t-port then sweep, t-port then run... what else? t-port then attack was always doable (only now you get full move rather than half).

[Doc Samson]

Re: Teleportation, Triggered

 

A little background to when I said I had tried this build.

 

My character was a bouncing speedster, similar to Speedball from Marvel. We originally built his Bouncing ability as Leaping, Trigger (contact with a solid object or surface), Trigger is an action that takes no time, Trigger resets automatically, immediatley (+1). It was broken as I was using the power to move-attack-and move again (via Move Throughs), I was using the power to move away if anyone tried to attack me (and of course I maxed my Dex), I was using the power to move on other people's phases (just because I could!). In other words it was too much of a good thing.

 

When we changed the build to Leaping, Trigger (contact with a solid surface), Trigger is an action that takes no time, Trigger requires a zero-phase action to reset (+3/4) it remained fun but became playable. I could still peform multiple bounces on my turn, but because you can't take zero phase actions after an attack or full round action, my phase wouldn't go on forever. I was limited to one bounce between phases (assuming I used my last zero-phase action to reset the trigger) which still gave me the feel of being super mobile, but again wouldn't go on forever. I would strongly recommend this option over the automatic reset build.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Teleportation, Triggered

 

Did you mean the original' date=' or the Zero Phase version? I dunno, I think the Zero Phase version is pretty balanced, since all it does is let you do a full teleport at the beginning of every phase. Meaning you could t-port then sweep, t-port then run... what else? t-port then attack was always doable (only now you get full move rather than half).[/quote']

 

if you are limited to your total inches of TP per phase, the extra cost to be able to move after attacks, for example, is probably reasonable and balanced. However being able to move around the world in a phase like this...

 

Teleportation 1", Safe Blind Teleport (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2), Trigger (Activating the Trigger is an Action that takes no time, Trigger resets automatically, immediately after it activates; Trigger is not being at the defined destination; +1) (6 Active Points)

 

...probably isn't

[Southern Cross]

Re: Teleportation, Triggered

 

So how about this construct? Worldwide Teleportation:1"Teleport,Safe Blind Teleport(+1/4),0END(+1/2)Megascale(1"=10 000km,Can Be Scaled Down(+1 1/2)(6 Active points).

[Tonio]

Re: Teleportation, Triggered

 

if you are limited to your total inches of TP per phase, the extra cost to be able to move after attacks, for example, is probably reasonable and balanced. However being able to move around the world in a phase like this...

 

Teleportation 1", Safe Blind Teleport (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2), Trigger (Activating the Trigger is an Action that takes no time, Trigger resets automatically, immediately after it activates; Trigger is not being at the defined destination; +1) (6 Active Points)

 

...probably isn't

 

Well, ok. But my version (or rather, my player's version, which I'm helping design) isn't 0 END. It's not even 1/2 END. It might even be Charges.

 

Point taken, tho!

[Sean Waters]

Re: Teleportation, Triggered

 

So how about this construct? Worldwide Teleportation:1"Teleport' date='Safe Blind Teleport(+1/4),0END(+1/2)Megascale(1"=10 000km,Can Be Scaled Down(+1 1/2)(6 Active points).[/quote']

 

Unlikely to pass muster either, I'm afraid; points are not the only arbiter of balance, but I certainly still use them as a useful measure.

[jtelson]

Re: Teleportation, Triggered

 

Did you mean the original' date=' or the Zero Phase version? I dunno, I think the Zero Phase version is pretty balanced, since all it does is let you do a full teleport at the beginning of every phase. Meaning you could t-port then sweep, t-port then run... what else? t-port then attack was always doable (only now you get full move rather than half).[/quote']

 

I'd really need to see it in action across a wide variety of situations; It's essentially always having a full phase action independant of having to move. It may be fien but I tend towards leary.

 

If a player wanted to be able to move and sweep, I'd say use Rapid Attack. At least once I've seen a fellow player use +" of Movement only for determining 1/2 move.

[Kdansky]

Re: Teleportation, Triggered

 

I never allow

 

Trigger: Mental Command.

 

That's basically: "Get get as many free actions as you want". Also, it's not a "trigger", because you are acting, not reacting. Trigger: "When x happens which is not something I do myself" is fine.

[Tonio]

Re: Teleportation, Triggered

 

I'd really need to see it in action across a wide variety of situations; It's essentially always having a full phase action independant of having to move. It may be fien but I tend towards leary.

 

If a player wanted to be able to move and sweep, I'd say use Rapid Attack. At least once I've seen a fellow player use +" of Movement only for determining 1/2 move.

 

Well, the original version has it limited to only t-porting to one of the character's images he can create. Basically, he creates images of himself (he can only make 8 per day, charges), and he can t-port to them (swap with them).

[Sean Waters]

Re: Teleportation, Triggered

 

Trigger doesn't, as far as I am aware, reduce the time it takes to perform the triggered action.

 

If that is so, a movement power, triggered, will take as long to perform as if it had been activated 'manually'.

 

So a half move will take a half phase, and a full move will take a full phase and, as you won;t eb able to use a movement power while you are using a movement power, you won;t be able to fit more than a full move into a phase no matter how you build it.

 

Or am I wrong?

 

Things become more complicated with attacks; the same should apply, but I'm sure I've seen official constructs that allow, at least potentially, more than 2 (of the same) attacks per phase.

 

What a puzzle.

[Tonio]

Re: Teleportation, Triggered

 

Trigger doesn't, as far as I am aware, reduce the time it takes to perform the triggered action.

 

If that is so, a movement power, triggered, will take as long to perform as if it had been activated 'manually'.

 

So a half move will take a half phase, and a full move will take a full phase and, as you won;t eb able to use a movement power while you are using a movement power, you won;t be able to fit more than a full move into a phase no matter how you build it.

 

Or am I wrong?

 

Things become more complicated with attacks; the same should apply, but I'm sure I've seen official constructs that allow, at least potentially, more than 2 (of the same) attacks per phase.

 

What a puzzle.

 

As I understand it, the action takes no time; the time involved is the time in activating the trigger. It certainly works that way with attacks.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Teleportation, Triggered

 

I'm not sure -I will have to look it up

[Doc Samson]

Re: Teleportation, Triggered

 

IMHO, how long it takes a power to activate is defined by what type of action it is.

As discussed above, a Phase is a Segment in

which a character can act, i.e., perform an Action.

During a Phase, a character may perform one or

more Actions, depending upon the nature of those

Actions and the order in which he performs them.

There are four basic types of Actions:

Trigger can take a power that normally requires a Full Phase Action or Half Phase Action and turn it into a Zero Phase Action or an Action That Take No time. Even attacks do not require an attack action when activated by a Trigger.

In some cases, activating a Trigger requires a

character to take some specific action. As a default,

this is a Zero Phase Action, but the character can

make it an Action that takes no time by paying for

an additional +¼ Advantage. In either case, even if

activating the Trigger involves an attack or making

an Attack Roll, it does not constitute an Attack

Action (unless the GM rules otherwise).

Therefore a power (even a movement power) that has been converted to an Action That takes No Time, can be used multiple times in a single segment even if it is not the character's phase.

ACTIONS WHICH TAKE NO TIME

Fourth are Actions which take no time. As the

term implies, these Actions take no time to perform;

a character may perform them whenever

he wishes (even on a Segment in which he doesn’t

have a Phase) and as oft en as he wishes. Examples

including making a Presence Attack, making a

soliloquy, or making a roll at the GM’s request.

The movement is happening more quickly then it normally would.

 

So a half move will take a half phase, and a full move will take a full phase and, as you won;t eb able to use a movement power while you are using a movement power, you won;t be able to fit more than a full move into a phase no matter how you build it.

To explain it another way, a Triggered half or full move is no longer a half or full action (which take a half or full phase). It is simply happening more quickly. This is why IMHO, any Action That Takes No Time should be scrutinized very heavily by the GM for potential "brokenesss".

[Sean Waters]

Re: Teleportation, Triggered

 

I get that you can make setting the trigegr a zero phase action, or an actiont hat takes no time, but I didn't think that made the power that you set up with the trigger any quicker to set up. The book specifically uses an example of a power with extra time, but I don;t have 5ER with me, so I'll have to look later.

 

I'd assumed, you see, that you turn on the power and set the trigger, and whilst settting the trigger may take no time, setting upt he thing TO BE triggered still takes the normal time.

 

I could be wrong.

[Tonio]

Re: Teleportation, Triggered

 

I'd just read that in 5ER, DocSamson, but I noticed it mentioned that "activating a Trigger" could be made into an action that takes no time. This is different from how long the action actually takes to execute. The character doesn't invest more than "an action that takes no time", sure, but that doesn't necessarily mean the action's effects also take no time.

 

The part where it says you spend any Extra Time when you set the Trigger up, rather then when it's activated, DOES seem to imply the action takes no time, but it's not definitive. I think I'll post it in the Steve-only forum and see what he has to say about it.