Killing Damage: Adding damage, manuevers and velocity

[hammersickle59]

Ok. page 406 and 407 5ER.

 

Under "Manuevers adding to Killing Damage" It states that for every 2DC's a manuever would add, add 1DC instead. Ok..simple enough.

 

Then under "Movement Adding to Killing Damage" For every 1d6 of normal damage added, add 1DC of killing damage BUT you can not more than double the base DC's.

 

Then it gives an example. That exampe takes into account this second rule but not the first rule! So.....are these two rules not cumalative?

 

It I have a killing attack and I do a move by to add 6DC's to the attack, do I get 6DC's or 3DC's? Based on their example its 6 DC's but this may be an oversight. Killing attacks have a ceiling on the damge from velocity and normal attacks dont, so I dont see the point of penalizing the Killing attack even more.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Killing Damage: Adding damage, manuevers and velocity

 

You can never do more than double the base DC damage of a weapon. Note the specific wording, since the standing rules for the Talent: Deadly Blow adds its damage to the Base DCs of the weapon you're attacking with. But no, the rule is not cumulative. You cannot do more than double the base DC of a weapon.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Killing Damage: Adding damage, manuevers and velocity

 

Movement Added Damage is not Maneuver Based Damage.

[hammersickle59]

Re: Killing Damage: Adding damage, manuevers and velocity

 

Ghost-Angel.....thats the crux of the issue. If movement based damage isnt manuever based damage then why is "move by" and "move through" manuevers! They never specifically say they arent manuevers, but they do say they are manuevers!

 

What this really means is, for this specific circumstance, you dont use both rules...the movement rules for adding killing damage override the manuever rules for killing damage. This would match both of your replies, except make more terminology sense (to me anyways).

[hammersickle59]

Re: Killing Damage: Adding damage, manuevers and velocity

 

To Thia: I know you cant double the base damage...that is seperate from the rules being cumalative. For example...if both rules were cumaltive that means that I can have a base killing attack of 2d6...then do a move by that would normally add 6DC's but instead it adds 3DCs because of the first rule. So the end result would be a 3d6 Killing. At max I could do a 4d6 Killing but I would need to get 12 extra DC's instead of 6! (cause it's halved because of the first rule).

 

But anyways...the rules arent cumalative....they should however specifically state that. Oh well.

[jtelson]

Re: Killing Damage: Adding damage, manuevers and velocity

 

Read the headings, the maneuver rule you're quoting is listed under HAYMAKER and MARTIAL MANEUVERS and the movement maneuver rule is listed under MOVEMENT.

[Opal]

Re: Killing Damage: Adding damage, manuevers and velocity

 

I'd interpret it slightly differently: be it STR, velocity, manuevers or MA DCs, you can't more than double the DCs of an HKA. As Thia points out, Deadly Blow doesn't add to KA, it increase the base damage of the HKA. Pretty nasty, but then, that's all it does - velocity is also a movement power, and STR, manuvers and MA DCs also all do normal damage.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Killing Damage: Adding damage, manuevers and velocity

 

Ghost-Angel.....thats the crux of the issue. If movement based damage isnt manuever based damage then why is "move by" and "move through" manuevers! They never specifically say they arent manuevers, but they do say they are manuevers!

 

What this really means is, for this specific circumstance, you dont use both rules...the movement rules for adding killing damage override the manuever rules for killing damage. This would match both of your replies, except make more terminology sense (to me anyways).

 

Maneuver Damage Classes are Damage Classes added directly by the Maneuver itself; for instance Haymaker adds Damage Classes.

 

You'll note that Strike is also a Maneuver - Strike with a Killing Attack does not divide your Damage Classes in half, because the Strike Maneuver does not add anything by itself.

 

Movement Based Maneuvers add Movement Damage, STR Damage and if you're using a custom built Maneuver they can also add Maneuver Damage.

[hammersickle59]

Re: Killing Damage: Adding damage, manuevers and velocity

 

Ah! Good point Jtelson! Thats why it sounded wrong.

 

So the rules arent cumalitive by definition.....hmm...cause move by and move through arre not martial and its not Haymaker. Still though..once you get past the heading the terminology they use is "manuevers" not martial manuevers.

[Paragon]

Re: Killing Damage: Adding damage, manuevers and velocity

 

The simple difference, far as I can tell, is that damage added from movement, whether via special manuever or not, are not the same as direct DC added effects; they both cap at twice the killing DCs, but the first adds at full value, the second at half value.