Mirror Images w/ Teleport ... also, Teleport w/ Martial Arts

[Tonio]

Two unrelated (well, they both involve Teleport, but that's a coincidence, really) questions/issues/requests for comments:

 

First, a power (or couple of powers, really) one of the PCs in a campaign I'm starting wants has him creating one or more mirror images of himself, which act just like him (not mimic him, they just act like he would). Additionally, he can swap with any of these images on a moment's notice. There are two general ways this is useful. The first is defensive/tactical: an attacker is never quite sure which if the images is the real character (unless he makes his PER roll, of course), he can get a multiple attacker bonus by himself, etc. The second is mobility: he can, for example, cross a canyon by projecting an image on the other side, and then swapping with it. Here's what we've come up with... what do you think? (I might've posted on this issue before... this is the "finished" version.)

 

22pts Holograms:  Sight, Hearing and Touch Groups Images 1" radius, -8 to PER Rolls,
8 Continuing Charges lasting 1 Minute each (+1/4) (55 Active Points);
Set Effect (Duplicates of the character; -1), OIF (-1/2)

29 pts Hologram Swap:  Teleportation 9", Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2),
Trigger (Activating the Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action, Trigger resets automatically,
immediately after it activates; Mental Command; +3/4), Invisible Power Effects
(Fully Invisible; +1) (58 Active Points); OIF (-1/2),
Limited Power (Only to swap with hologram; -1/2)

 

The other issue is... I'm trying to build a super-fast martial artist (not a new concept, I know!). Super-fast as in "mobility", not as in SPD or reactions, which would be normal-fast. Basically, instead of high Running, he'll have teleport, must cross intervening space. Question is, would Stretching, Instant (-1/2) be a good way to simulate his running real quick up to the target, smacking him, then running back? I'm thinking Instant since the "Stretching" only lasts an instant (he can't be in both places at once). Stretching because it'd let him use melee attacks at range, even giving him a velocity damage bonus, which is appropriate. Can anybody think of any problems with this, in terms of things that might not make sense?

[Adventus]

Re: Mirror Images w/ Teleport ... also, Teleport w/ Martial Arts

 

On the first issue, why the Trigger? and what is the Trigger?

 

On the second issue, you could just buy an EB with the special effect he zooms to the person and hits them and zooms back to where he started.

[Starlight]

Re: Mirror Images w/ Teleport ... also, Teleport w/ Martial Arts

 

The other issue is... I'm trying to build a super-fast martial artist (not a new concept' date=' I know!). Super-fast as in "mobility", not as in SPD or reactions, which would be normal-fast. Basically, instead of high Running, he'll have teleport, must cross intervening space. Question is, would Stretching, Instant (-1/2) be a good way to simulate his running real quick up to the target, smacking him, then running back? I'm thinking Instant since the "Stretching" only lasts an instant (he can't be in both places at once). Stretching because it'd let him use melee attacks at range, even giving him a velocity damage bonus, which is appropriate. Can anybody think of any problems with this, in terms of things that might not make sense?[/quote']

 

There's at least one problem I can think of straight away. I'm sure there are others too. Consider the case when the target is within the 'move up to' range of the martial artist and is known to be there, but the target is not in sight. What should happen by the desired special effect is the martial artist runs up, smacks target, runs back. Neither stretching nor an energy blast will simulate this without some method, such as N-Ray vision, of being able to sense the target with a targeting sense. An energy blast approach will also require indirect on the EB.

 

Looking at other options, run up, smack, run away (back to starting point) sounds a lot like a limited form of move-by manoeuvre to me. You can buy HTH levels and some HA Attack to simulate a range of martial manoeuvres, although some manoeuvres such as martial throw, etc., will be difficult to simulate in this fashion.

[Adventus]

Re: Mirror Images w/ Teleport ... also, Teleport w/ Martial Arts

 

I would say buy Clairvoyance, must have duplicate who can see target. This would dovetail right into the Teleport power set. I.e, he looks thru his duplicates eyes finds the one that can 'see' the target and attacks from their location. EB with Indirect, only from a duplicate, must be able to 'see' target from attacking duplicate.

[Tonio]

Re: Mirror Images w/ Teleport ... also, Teleport w/ Martial Arts

 

Thanks for your replies!

 

On the first issue' date=' why the Trigger? and what is the Trigger? [/quote']

 

Trigger is "mental command". The reason for it is to make it into a 0-Phase action, so that he can t-port at any time. This is necessary to maintain the effect where you never know which are Images and which is the real character.

 

On the second issue' date=' you could just buy an EB with the special effect he zooms to the person and hits them and zooms back to where he started.[/quote']

 

I thought about it, but decided I wanted better definition, specifically allowing him to use his MA for these hits.

 

There's at least one problem I can think of straight away. I'm sure there are others too. Consider the case when the target is within the 'move up to' range of the martial artist and is known to be there' date=' but the target is not in sight. What should happen by the desired special effect is the martial artist runs up, smacks target, runs back. Neither stretching nor an energy blast will simulate this without some method, such as N-Ray vision, of being able to sense the target with a targeting sense. An energy blast approach will also require indirect on the EB. [/quote']

 

Hm, true. I guess a Clairsentience, limited to t-port/stretching range, Instant, would be justified. It'd represent him running into and out of a spot really quick, just to take a look. Or actually, link it to Stretching.

 

Looking at other options' date=' run up, smack, run away (back to starting point) sounds a lot like a limited form of move-by manoeuvre to me. You can buy HTH levels and some HA Attack to simulate a range of martial manoeuvres, although some manoeuvres such as martial throw, etc., will be difficult to simulate in this fashion.[/quote']

 

Problem with move-by is you can't use it with t-port. =/

 

I would say buy Clairvoyance' date=' must have duplicate who can see target. This would dovetail right into the Teleport power set. I.e, he looks thru his duplicates eyes finds the one that can 'see' the target and attacks from their location. EB with Indirect, only from a duplicate, must be able to 'see' target from attacking duplicate.[/quote']

 

I think I didn't explain myself properly at the beginning... these are two completely unrelated characters (one makes duplicate Images to which he can teleport, the other's a pretty standard speedster martial artist).

[Qelan]

Re: Mirror Images w/ Teleport ... also, Teleport w/ Martial Arts

 

Stretching has indirect built into it already.

[BNakagawa]

Re: Mirror Images w/ Teleport ... also, Teleport w/ Martial Arts

 

Personally, I would not allow this build. (as a PC)

 

The way it is currently built, how could this character ever lose a fair fight? Any time anyone attacked him, he could switch to a duplicate that wasn't being targeted.

 

The only way to beat this character is to ambush him. Not fun. Not balanced.

 

Also, what is to stop this character from having an infinite move rate? IF you can move 9" whenever you want, then what's to stop you from moving 90" in a segment? 900"? 900000"?

[ghost-angel]

Re: Mirror Images w/ Teleport ... also, Teleport w/ Martial Arts

 

Here's how my wife's Temporal Manipulator built a similar Power:

 

Everywhere At Once: Sight, Mental, Hearing, Smell/Taste and Touch Groups, Danger Sense, Spatial Awareness and Combat Sense Images Increased Size (16" radius; +1), +/-3 to PER Rolls, Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4) (112 Active Points); Set Effect (Only Copies of herself; -1), No Range (-1/2)

 

Everywhere At Once: (Total: 115 Active Cost, 64 Real Cost) Indirect (Any origin, any direction; +3/4) for up to 100 Active Points of Temporal Powers (75 Active Points); Limited Power Only from Copies (-1/2) (Real Cost: 50) plus Running 20" (40 Active Points); Only "inside" Everywhere At Once Images (-1 1/2), no Noncombat movement (-1/4) (Real Cost: 14)

 

We limited it to 10 Images of the character total inside the Images Radius as a -0 "Let's not be Complete Jerks about this" Limitation. But in a given Phase she can move anywhere, and her Images also run inside the area, and any Image (or the real thing) can appear to attack (the Indirect Power).

 

I wouldn't allow the Trigger version as you're not moving out of phase for what, as we found out in practice, is an incredibly powerful ability. Even for the very high powered game we were in this was just not someone you wanted to enter combat with.

[Tonio]

Re: Mirror Images w/ Teleport ... also, Teleport w/ Martial Arts

 

Personally, I would not allow this build. (as a PC)

 

The way it is currently built, how could this character ever lose a fair fight? Any time anyone attacked him, he could switch to a duplicate that wasn't being targeted.

 

The only way to beat this character is to ambush him. Not fun. Not balanced.

 

Well, note he can only create one Image per Phase (or can he Sweep/Rapid Fire that?), so unless he comes prepared with multiple Images, he'd have to spend time creating the Images before he can switch to them. Time during which he can be attacked, and while he's not attacking back. Also, you can, with a high enough PER or an appropriate sense, know which is which and attack accordingly. Against a HTH opponent he has a significant advantage, that's for sure. Against ranged, not so much, especially since the small size of the Images prevent them from appearing to fire at range (if you see a blast coming at you, you know that's the right one). Also note he can't switch after attacking, since you can't perform Zero-Phase Actions afte an Attack Action. This isn't a problem for him if he's attacking at HTH Range (Images are Touch, too, so you'd feel a smack), but at range it's an issue.

 

Also' date=' what is to stop this character from having an infinite move rate? IF you can move 9" whenever you want, then what's to stop you from moving 90" in a segment? 900"? 900000"?[/quote']

 

The range of Images added to the Charges Limitation on his Images. He can have 8 Images tops (8 charges on the power), so his maximum move rate would be 72", and that's after using up all his Images (might take him 8 Phases, still not sure whether he can Sweep/Rapid Fire the Images power), and only if he sets them up so they're 9" apart, in a straight line.

 

He can move an infinite distance if he's ping-ponging between Images, but he can't attack while he's doing it (the no zero-phase after attack thing); at best he'd be able to "scout" up to 8 different spots (separated by no more than 9" from each other), but he'd get a probably heavy PER penalty on those (for not spending a lot of time at each spot), not to mention it'd look like he's there, anyway (so no stealthy scouting).

 

Here's how my wife's Temporal Manipulator built a similar Power:

 

Everywhere At Once: Sight, Mental, Hearing, Smell/Taste and Touch Groups, Danger Sense, Spatial Awareness and Combat Sense Images Increased Size (16" radius; +1), +/-3 to PER Rolls, Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4) (112 Active Points); Set Effect (Only Copies of herself; -1), No Range (-1/2)

 

Everywhere At Once: (Total: 115 Active Cost, 64 Real Cost) Indirect (Any origin, any direction; +3/4) for up to 100 Active Points of Temporal Powers (75 Active Points); Limited Power Only from Copies (-1/2) (Real Cost: 50) plus Running 20" (40 Active Points); Only "inside" Everywhere At Once Images (-1 1/2), no Noncombat movement (-1/4) (Real Cost: 14)

 

We limited it to 10 Images of the character total inside the Images Radius as a -0 "Let's not be Complete Jerks about this" Limitation. But in a given Phase she can move anywhere, and her Images also run inside the area, and any Image (or the real thing) can appear to attack (the Indirect Power).

 

I wouldn't allow the Trigger version as you're not moving out of phase for what, as we found out in practice, is an incredibly powerful ability. Even for the very high powered game we were in this was just not someone you wanted to enter combat with.

 

Well, that works great for actually being everywhere at once (or close to it). I might actually "borrow" it for an NPC. ;-) On the other hand, what my player wants isn't so much that but the ability to appear to be in several places (without actually being there at all) plus the ability to instantaneously swap places with any of those images. The idea behind the 0-phase thing isn't so much so he can do it multiple times, but so that he can do it without "wasting" a half-phase action.