Affects Desolid

[薔薇語]

Hello,

 

So I am building a character who can to some degree manipulate Shadows and even uses a person's shadow to inflict damage. IE attack his shadow to harm him. But this posses some game mechanic problems. In order to generate the effect I want I was just calling it Special F/X of the power, but this gets muddied when it comes to Desolid characters. Unless the target in question doesn't have a shadow (or at least not one tangible enough to affect) then I should be able to harm them using my attacks. Game mechanic wise I didn't buy Affects Desolid so I couldn't. This cuases a unfortunate inconsistancy that has brought me here.

 

I hope to find an acceptable way of dealing with this. My first and currently best idea is to just buy Affects Desolid and deal with it, although this decreses the amount of effect I can have, in dice (they are in a MP, and there is an Active point cap for the game). Every avantage cuts deep into that, even more so when you are talking only 30-35active points.

 

The question is (and I thought I would ask it here before taking it to the GM so that I have some sense of where I stand), "there are forms of desolid that can't be effect by my powers, examples being: those made of complete energy, those turning into a thin mist of water vapor or what have you, and etc. Should buy the Affects Desolid power as a +1/4 sense it doesn't work on all forms or at the +1/2 and put a -1/4 limitation showing this?" I as a player, who is concerned about points spent for effect (the current teen champions setting isn't putting for many villians with desolid and the only one so far would of been of the 'can't be affected type.' so I would loose dice of effect for a limited use avantage that stays true to special effect) and would prefer the +1/4 level sense it allows for greater base cost for effect while netting me the same total cost.

 

Am I off my rocker in suggesting this to the GM or should I build it and take it to him? I could probably not do this at all and wouldn't come across many times where I would have to explain why it doesn't work, but I hate as a player doing such things.

 

la Rose

[Trebuchet]

Re: Affects Desolid

 

Since the rules state that Desolidified characters are visibly non-solid, maybe even semi-transparent, the obvious answer here is to just assume that the faint shadow cast by a Desolid character lacks enough "material" for the character to work with.

 

If you wish to go with your original attack, point out to your GM that there woulds be certain characters you flatly could not use this attack upon: invisible characters, certain supernatural creatures that don't cast shadows (or are shadows), energy creatures (as you noted), characters in total darkness, etc.; and see if he'll allow a Limitation for all those.

 

If an area was well enough lit, a character in it might not have any shadow.

[braincraft]

Re: Affects Desolid

 

If you build it as an EGO Attack, it'll work on even Desolid characters. Of course, then it won't work on robots or inanimate objects...

 

I can't remember if Drains and other Adjustment powers bypass Desolid.

 

Of course, you could always discuss the matter with your GM and see if you can waive the active point cap for the purposes of this one advantage only; it probably balances out the limitations of needing a shadow to do your stuff. However, I don't see that it's going to come up a lot unless your GM really likes to use Desolid. Most forms of Desolid won't have shadows anyway; turning into mist or becoming a translucent spirit form, and probably some others, like the energy form you mention. I don't know for sure that it's worth having headaches over something that's going to come up maybe once or twice in your entire campaign.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Affects Desolid

 

If an area was well enough lit' date=' a character in it might not have any shadow.[/quote']

 

And if not lit at all (or often in large bodies of water) there would be no shadows.

 

It is a call for a good set of limitations...

 

 

Doc

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Affects Desolid

 

Since the rules state that Desolidified characters are visibly non-solid' date=' maybe even semi-transparent, the obvious answer here is to just assume that the faint shadow cast by a Desolid character lacks enough "material" for the character to work with.[/quote']

 

And if the GM says that some do cast a shadow then you should be able to buy the affect desolid at a discount as there would be many fewer opportunities to affect desolid if fewer of them cast shadows than solid people...

 

Your GM may simply handwave - yeah the power will not work against solid people in a variety of circumstances but will work against desolids in some circumstances - no need for a limitation or an advantage.

 

Otherwise it is advantage and limitation time. :-)

 

Doc

[ghost-angel]

Re: Affects Desolid

 

Perhaps, given a limited number of Desolid you can effect, the GM would state that 'anything that can affect my shadow' as one of the appropriate Affected By SFX for some Desolid Characters bypassing your whole issue.

[Daemon]

Re: Affects Desolid

 

Put your attack powers into a Multipower.

 

Buy a power slot with your primary attack, at a reduced die effect, as Affects Desolid and Only vs Targets that cast shadows.

 

Multipowers don't have to actually be categorically different powers in each slot; they can be defined as tweaked aspects of the same power. Thus, you can make a 'single-power' character that can do more than one thing, representing very fine control over that 'single power'.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Affects Desolid

 

Hello,

 

So I am building a character who can to some degree manipulate Shadows and even uses a person's shadow to inflict damage. IE attack his shadow to harm him. But this posses some game mechanic problems. In order to generate the effect I want I was just calling it Special F/X of the power, but this gets muddied when it comes to Desolid characters. Unless the target in question doesn't have a shadow (or at least not one tangible enough to affect) then I should be able to harm them using my attacks. Game mechanic wise I didn't buy Affects Desolid so I couldn't. This cuases a unfortunate inconsistancy that has brought me here.

 

I hope to find an acceptable way of dealing with this. My first and currently best idea is to just buy Affects Desolid and deal with it, although this decreses the amount of effect I can have, in dice (they are in a MP, and there is an Active point cap for the game). Every avantage cuts deep into that, even more so when you are talking only 30-35active points.

 

The question is (and I thought I would ask it here before taking it to the GM so that I have some sense of where I stand), "there are forms of desolid that can't be effect by my powers, examples being: those made of complete energy, those turning into a thin mist of water vapor or what have you, and etc. Should buy the Affects Desolid power as a +1/4 sense it doesn't work on all forms or at the +1/2 and put a -1/4 limitation showing this?" I as a player, who is concerned about points spent for effect (the current teen champions setting isn't putting for many villians with desolid and the only one so far would of been of the 'can't be affected type.' so I would loose dice of effect for a limited use avantage that stays true to special effect) and would prefer the +1/4 level sense it allows for greater base cost for effect while netting me the same total cost.

 

Am I off my rocker in suggesting this to the GM or should I build it and take it to him? I could probably not do this at all and wouldn't come across many times where I would have to explain why it doesn't work, but I hate as a player doing such things.

 

la Rose

 

The +1/4 form of 'affects desolid' should only really be used for a single for of desolid. You are using it for a broad category of sfx, or at least a potentially broad category: desolids that still cast a shadow.

 

Personally I'd probably allow it as not that many NPCs have desolid anyway and I could probably quite easily juggle things so it balanced OK.

 

The obvious limitation here is 'affects shadow': a limited power that means that a target without a shadow in unaffected by the attack, and one casting a weak or diffused shadow is affected as if they had damage reduction. Obviously not so good in a MP unless it can affect all the slots, but I'd probably peg that at around -1, indicating that the attack is only effective about half the time.

 

One other interesting issue is the length of someone's shadow: sometimes, depending on light source, it might be short, other times long AND it could be behind, to the side or in fromt of the target, which can substatially affect range modifiers.

 

You did not indicate if the attack was ranged: if it is then it should balance out generally. If not, you might need a limited form of the ranged advantage to account for being able to punch someone who is standing in front of the sunset, even though they are 50 metres away.

 

Hijacking just a little, I wonder whether there might be room for a more varied approach with desolid:

 

70 points: can pass through anything and cannot be affected by any attack

60 points: can not pass through a single uncommon thing/affected by attacks from that thing

50 points: can not pass through a single common thing/affected by attacks from that thing

40 points: can not pass through a single very common thing/affected by attacks from that thing

30 points: can pass through/affected by a single very common thing

20 points: can pass through/affected by a single common thing

10 points: can pass through/affected by a single uncommon thing

 

A 'thing' can be a substance, an sfx, or even a set of conditions (I'm invulnerable unless I am standing in direct sunlight!)

 

Desolid generally has no effect on mental powers, unless specifically bought to afefct mental powers. You cannot generally buy desolid more than once for a single character, unless the second purchase is to affect mental powers.

 

The 10-30 point levels can buy 'affects physical world' as a +1/2 advantage, but do not need it at all if the attack sfx are the thing that can affect the character.

The 40-60 point levels can buy 'affects physical world' can buy 'affects physical world' as a +2 advantage, or a +1 advantage if the attack sfx are something that can affect them.

The 70 point level requires 'affects solid world' at +2.

 

For a +1 advantage a character can 'partially solidify', which means he or she can use attacks normally (even without an appropriate advantage). When partially solid the character can remain partially inside another object, but cannot move within it, and if attacked takes half damage after defences, from attacks that would not normally affect them when desolid.