The Practice Effect

[Maelstrom]

Just got finished reading this book by David Brin. I was directed to it by TV Tropes, a great website.

 

Bottom-line, the more a thing is used for a purpose, the better it gets for that purpose. This happens in an alternate universe, and the main character is a scientist, so at first he believes that there's a tweak to entropy.

 

Won't spoil the rest of the novel here. But how would people feel about objects gaining experience?

 

My thought -- you buy a sword. That sword, although purchased, is worth a real point value. The GM assigns xp specifically to the sword. When it acquires enough xp, it is treated as an item bought with xp. Then it starts to improve: plusses to OCV, DCV, damage -- either per the player's design, or perhaps a GM's template.

 

What do you think?

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: The Practice Effect

 

I thought I was the only person to have read that book and tried to come up with a howto in Hero.

 

I'd probably treat it as Aid, myself, as that's how it seems to work in the novel; items that aren't practiced revert over time.

[Stormraven]

Re: The Practice Effect

 

I've read the book, but hadn't thought of how to do it in Hero. But yeah, I agree with Chris. Treat it as an Aid - probably ½d6 per day, in most cases, with some folks being able to increase it. I believe the main character probably had a 6d6 value at points.

[Maelstrom]

Re: The Practice Effect

 

I like the idea of an aid, because different people could have different levels of it.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: The Practice Effect

 

Argh. Having said that, now I'm thinking Transform might be better. Everyone has some degree of Transform: Item to Better Item, Always On, Damage Shield, with Partial Transform, with some level of Extra Time. And it's possible to make really radical transformations too, if you work the items correctly.

[OddHat]

Re: The Practice Effect

 

I'd use a variation of the Gear Pool idea.

 

Every PC and major statted NPC has a VPP, Only Changes when new items found (-1/2), only items (-1/4). Call it 60 points, so the character can pick up a magic sword if he finds one and use it as part of his Gear Pool.

 

Now buy the Practice Effect separately as an Aid with reduced fade rate (since item qualities don't fade immediately).

 

The characters gear is now all appropriately stated out, and he can Aid it through practice.

 

The book mentions that some people who are particularly good at practicing are highly valued by the nobility; maybe social limitation "Known Practicer" would be appropriate, as such men would be at risk from merchants and nobles hoping to improve their weapons and goods.

[Maelstrom]

Re: The Practice Effect

 

Other disadvantages: "Same physique as the Baron" -- more likely to be enslaved

"L'Toff" -- better at *practice* but more likely to be etc.

 

Aid would be easier to manage, because a partially-transformed item would most likely be worse than the original. Also, the gun that the hero brought only got marginally better -- possibly the minor aid the new owner had couldn't add much to an already high point value.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: The Practice Effect

 

Other disadvantages: "Same physique as the Baron" -- more likely to be enslaved

"L'Toff" -- better at *practice* but more likely to be etc.

 

Aid would be easier to manage, because a partially-transformed item would most likely be worse than the original. Also, the gun that the hero brought only got marginally better -- possibly the minor aid the new owner had couldn't add much to an already high point value.

 

It actually got quite a bit better when Dennis was working it. When the Baron had it, I don't know for sure that it got a whole lot better, but he had experienced practicers working it, so it probably at least stayed where it was.

[CTaylor]

Re: The Practice Effect

 

I'd just treat the item in question as a character that gains xps.

[Maelstrom]

Re: The Practice Effect

 

That was my first thought, CT, but the effect . . . um . . . affected . . . everything that someone used, from their houses to their clothes, shoes, backpacks, and so forth, which is a lot of points. After something is not used, the effect slowly fades until the object returns to how it was made in the beginning, which was usually pretty crappy.

[CTaylor]

Re: The Practice Effect

 

No, give the items experience separately. Your backpack, your shoes, your house, etc all gains xps as it goes through different situations. As time goes on and isn't in these situations, the xps fade away at a given rate.

[Stormraven]

Re: The Practice Effect

 

Trouble with that, CT, is, as Maelstrom pointed out, that requires keeping track of XPs for literally everything. With the aid idea, you don't. You just have to keep track of what's being practiced. A bit easier, IMO.

[Tom Carman]

Re: The Practice Effect

 

I'd probably treat it as Aid' date=' myself, as that's how it seems to work in the novel; items that aren't practiced revert over time.[/quote']

 

They didn't always revert; there were certain special practitioners who could "put something of themselves into it" to permanently improve an object. An application of the Independent limitation?

[CTaylor]

Re: The Practice Effect

 

I guess I don't see the difference between keeping track of an Aid and keeping track of xps. It's still points that are added in, either way.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: The Practice Effect

 

They didn't always revert; there were certain special practitioners who could "put something of themselves into it" to permanently improve an object. An application of the Independent limitation?

 

True enough. At the very least, an item for which the character has paid points.

 

Btw, welcome back Tom... haven't seen you around in a while!

[Maelstrom]

Re: The Practice Effect

 

They didn't always revert; there were certain special practitioners who could "put something of themselves into it" to permanently improve an object. An application of the Independent limitation?

 

Yeah, the L'Toff could do this, by sacrificing portions of their lives. Days, weeks, years for high-level things. Maybe a combination of aid and a portion of earned xp. But . . . more complicated . . . getting woozy . . .

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: The Practice Effect

 

Yeah' date=' the L'Toff could do this, by sacrificing portions of their lives. Days, weeks, years for high-level things. Maybe a combination of aid and a portion of earned xp. But . . . more complicated . . . getting woozy . . .[/quote']

 

I'd just make it the special effect of spending points on an object.

[Maelstrom]

Re: The Practice Effect

 

Yes, but only the L'Toff could make the improvements permanent.

 

How about this: you can only double the amount of points 'built into' the weapon at the beginning. The last point has to be from a character's own reserve of XP to be permanent. Or should it cost more?

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: The Practice Effect

 

Yes' date=' but only the L'Toff could make the improvements permanent. [/quote']

 

Sure, but in theory anyone can have a L'Toff item. You stole one, were granted one, found one, whatever. L'Toff items (or any "made" item, for instance tech items brought there from outside) are the "magic items" of the setting.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: The Practice Effect

 

I hate to say this, but this may be a case where Independent is useful. *twitch*

[CTaylor]

Re: The Practice Effect

 

This concept kind of reminds me of the sequel to Dream Park, where the eskimos believed that items gain power by traveling - the further it travels the more power it builds up (in the book a fallen satellite was the artifact, having circled the earth thousands of times).

[Maelstrom]

Re: The Practice Effect

 

The Barsoom Project. I remember that. The 'power' was just sort of raw magical force, IIRC.

 

I like the Independent idea. Perhaps only the L'Toff have access to the disadvantage, and the fading of the points is more of a special effect for a normal focus not having the disadvantage, when someone else tried to use it.