The real cost

[Sean Waters]

I know the Minds of the board know this, and I suppose I do too, but it is worth reminding ourselves that the most efficeint limtiation you can buy is the smallest one as it gives you the biggest saving in real terms for the least inconvenience.

 

Advantages, on the other hand, have a straight line cost increase.

 

I'm just saying, but I thought it worth doing so.

[Maur]

Re: The real cost

 

Actually it would be better to find one big limitation than a ton of little ones for the cost savings, heheh.

[rauer]

Re: The real cost

 

A little limitation goes a long way

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: The real cost

 

the most efficeint limtiation you can buy is the smallest one as it gives you the biggest saving in real terms for the least inconvenience.

 

Advantages, on the other hand, have a straight line cost increase.

Another aspect of this is that you get a bigger bang for your buck by buying Powers with lots of Advantages and relatively few Limitations, than you do by buying Powers with relatively few Advantages and lots of Limitations.

 

In fact, when I very first started playing Champions back in the '80s, my group didn't handle Advantages and Limitations correctly, for this very reason. We canceled out Advantages and Limitations, leaving a net modifier that we applied to increase or reduce the cost, as appropriate.

 

We did it this way because we assumed the book couldn't really mean what it said about applying Advantages and Limitations separately. We assumed that Advantages and Limitations were meant to have equal and opposite effects on cost, and we recognized that applying the rules as written meant that they didn't have equal and opposite effects on cost. The "impact" of Limitations on cost gets smaller and smaller as the cost approaches zero, while the impact of of Advantages on cost remains constant no matter how far away the cost gets from zero.

 

You can't reach zero no matter how much you divide, but you can keep multiplying up forever...

[OddHat]

Re: The real cost

 

It gets even more confusing as GMs interpret and enforce limitations differently. GM A will pretty much forget what limits are on the PCs sheets (after all, he has six players and a dozen NPCs to keep track of); GM B will consider every limitation a specific request to have X happen in the game, and will make sure they all come up at least once in a while; GM C will sadistically exploit every limit in every game session, even if it doesn't make narrative sense for street punks to have access to Ulti-Dude's One Weakness. Advantages are less likely to run into that kind of variable enforcement, though it still happens; how many GMs started throwing Hardened onto every major villain's defenses as soon as a character with a penetrating KA turned up?

[OddHat]

Re: The real cost

 

Another aspect of this is that you get a bigger bang for your buck by buying Powers with lots of Advantages and relatively few Limitations, than you do by buying Powers with relatively few Advantages and lots of Limitations.

 

In fact, when I very first started playing Champions back in the '80s, my group didn't handle Advantages and Limitations correctly, for this very reason. We canceled out Advantages and Limitations, leaving a net modifier that we applied to increase or reduce the cost, as appropriate.

 

We did it this way because we assumed the book couldn't really mean what it said about applying Advantages and Limitations separately. We assumed that Advantages and Limitations were meant to have equal and opposite effects on cost, and we recognized that applying the rules as written meant that they didn't have equal and opposite effects on cost. The "impact" of Limitations on cost gets smaller and smaller as the cost approaches zero, while the impact of of Advantages on cost remains constant no matter how far away the cost gets from zero.

 

You can't reach zero no matter how much you divide, but you can keep multiplying up forever...

 

I did that for a few years as well.

[prestidigitator]

Re: The real cost

 

I tend to buy Modifers based on what the power should do, not based on how much, "bang for my buck." I guess it might come into play a little bit when trying to fit a power into a Framework or use up those last available character points I have left, but I'm still not really sure it is a problem.

[ghost-angel]

Re: The real cost

 

It's a nice math trick, and tells us something about the nature of the System.

 

But it doesn't affect play much from my position.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: The real cost

 

I tend to buy Modifers based on what the power should do' date=' not based on how much, "bang for my buck." I guess it might come into play a little bit when trying to fit a power into a Framework or use up those last available character points I have left, but I'm still not really sure it is a problem.[/quote']I don't know that anyone's saying it is a problem, or that you should base your character design around squeezing out as much "bang for your buck" as you can. It's just an interesting point to note about how the system works, and we're duly noting it.

[prestidigitator]

Re: The real cost

 

I don't know that anyone's saying it is a problem' date=' or that you should base your character design around squeezing out as much "bang for your buck" as you can. It's just an interesting point to note about how the system works, and we're duly noting it. [/quote']

 

Fair enough. To look at it from the other end, there are diminishing returns when you start stacking up bunches of Limitations.