Enviromental Movement: Armour?

[Alibear]

I've not got FH5 yet , but was thinking that Enviromental Movement: Armour is the most elegant way of negating encumberance penalties.

 

I would say that 4 points would cover it.

 

Do you see any drawbacks or problems to this method?

[Killer Shrike]

Im just using Penalty Skill Levels myself, 1 for 1; but Im also requiring an Armor Fam for equipment Armor (Light, Medium, Heavy groups for 2 pts each, or a specific type for 1 pt), and for Shields too (Shield Fam, Tower Shield Fam, 1 pt each) -- so it works out to about the same cost for most characters as what you are proposing.....

[Blue Jogger]

Hmm, for 5 points, you could do it this way.

 

10 STR at 0 END (15 active points)

(-2 Limitation: Only to negate up to 100 kilos of armor weight, does not add to native strength, no figured characteristics, etc...)

5 Real Points

 

But that's assuming that most of the encumberance penalties comes from things being heavy.

 

By the way, 4 points of environmental movement negates up to 3 penalities, a truely bogged down warrior could still have -2 penality. Which to me, seems to have the right feel (if going by this route) since you shouldn't negate all the penalities by skill alone. Also, I don't think this would negate the additional END/Turn loss. So even if you negate the DCV penalities, it's still tiring to wear that much armor.

 

Just some thoughts

[Killer Shrike]

Here are three line items from my "Heavy Foot" Fighter package:

 

2 Load Bearing: +6 STR; Only for Encumbrance Purposes (-2)

2 AF: Heavy Armor Proficiency

3 Penalty Skill Levels: +2 to Offset DCV Penatly of Heavy Armor

 

Im using the 1.5 pts Penalty Skill Levels, which combined with the AF for 2 points works out to 5 pts to offset a DCV penalty from Heavy Armor, which Im treating as a -2 DCV and -2 to DEX Rolls, with proficiency. To offset both would require the 2 pt PSLs, or an extra point in this case, but the Heavy Foot package doesnt suffer overly much from a DEX roll penalty (as it has no DEX based skills), so I shaved a point. A player taking the package could always allocate another point and bump that. The Load Bearing is just a convenience ability, allowing the Heavy Foot to slog all day with a full combat load out.

 

Medium armor is -1 DCV and -1 DEX, with proficiency, FYI, and Light Armor has no penalty intrinsically.

 

These Armor penalties only apply to Equipment Armor; Armor paid for in character points is by definition either Magic or "masterwork" and do not have these penalties intrinsically -- a small 'gimme' making magic/masterwork armor marginally better even before you consider any special abilities worked in to the Armor.

[Roland]

Unfortunately, 5E doesn't permit you to use PSLs to offset DCV penalties. But I am coming to think that restriction on PSLs was probably a mistake.

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by Roland

Unfortunately, 5E doesn't permit you to use PSLs to offset DCV penalties. But I am coming to think that restriction on PSLs was probably a mistake.

Im choosing to ignore that restriction in this instance. Think of it this way:

 

+2 DCV only to Offset Heavy Armor Penalty (-2) = 3 RP

 

Penalty Skill Levels: +2 to Offset DCV Penalty of Heavy Armor = 3 RP

 

It just seems more consistent/direct to buy it as unmodified PSLs than as modified DCV levels.

[Roland]

Killer Shrike - I agree with you. Unfortunately, the rules (currently) do not.

[Blue Jogger]

A lot of this is dependent on the campaign.

 

In a campaign where Elven Chain is as light and flexible as silk, yet strong as steel or where magic rings and bracelets gives bonuses not unlike having armor. Having 4 to 6 points to negate armor penalities is probably not unreasonable, reguardless of how it is bought. (mine was a simple "make armor weightless" just to be different). Basically, encumbrance is a minor annoyance.

 

In a campaign where such items are exceptionally rare, then having the ability to negate heavy armor penalities is an amazing ability. It means you can wear large amounts of armor without getting tired, this gives a tactical advantage to the EM characters. Other weaker characters aren't even going to try to wear heavy armor unless they are expecting combat. This is not neccessary bad, if you want people to wear armor who aren't weight lifters. EM should be used by young fighters who rarely tired (ah, youth) or experienced warriors who have learned to save energy for battle.

 

For comparison, a 20 STR person can carry 40 kilos (10%) with no penality. This is 8 DEF (Full Plate), Full Coverage. But, he isn't going to be carrying anything else. With EM: Armour, he could decide to have 10 DEF, Full Coverage armor which weighs 80 kilos and carry 40 kilos of gear, all day if he needed to, as if he had a 28 STR. A seasoned warrior with 15 STR (without EM) has to lighten the armor to DEF 6 (chain) or spend lots of coin to get a plate made out of a lighter material but still DEF 8 (if he can). And either way, he's not carrying an kilo more of gear, it's on the horse.

 

I hope this help.

 

Edit: I didn't talk about the 30 STR half orges, but I think it goes without saying.

[Chris Goodwin]

How about a "naked buyoff" of the Real Armor and/or Mass Limitations?

[Blue Jogger]

Well, Normal Mass is a -1.

 

Since 1 PD, 1ED Armor costs 3 points. It would cost 1.5 points to negate the mass. So it costs 12 points to negate the normal mass of 8 DEF Plate Armor.

 

Half Mass is a -1/2 (gee, costs half as much). So for 6 points to make it weigh only half as much.

[JMHammer]

Encumbrance and Armor and Penalties

 

Now that I've had FH5 for a few days, I've been thinking about how I might adapt my old rules regarding armor to Hero 5E. I'm looking for some realism but I'm more concerned with encouraging people to have diverse character types, use/wear diverse equipment, etc.

 

So, I've been thinking that the encumbrance penalties can't be reduced in any way. Unless you put your gear in a wheelbarrow, on a horse, or in a bag of holding, carrying gear and wearing armor and whatnot with the encumbrance values as described in FH5 will result in the penalties to DCV, Dex Roll, Movement, and END use modifiers described in FH5. (FWIW, I use the END per turn from encumbrance to modify post-segment-12 recoveries as applied to END.)

 

Furthermore, regardless of strength, DEF 3 and DEF 4 armor imposes a penalty of -1 DCV and -1 DEX roll; DEF 5 and DEF 6 armor imposes a penalty of -2 DCV and -2 DEX roll; DEF 7 armor imposes a penalty of -3 DCV and -3 DEX roll; DEF 8 armor imposes a penalty of -4 DCV and -4 DEX roll. Each +1 DEF beyond that imposes a penalty of -1 beyond that imposed by DEF 8. These armor-type-based penalties are NOT cumulative with the DCV and DEX roll penalties of encumbrance; the affected character must use the WORSE of the two which apply.

 

(Previous paragraph assumes "average" non-magical armor built for a human-size wearer.)

 

Finally, characters may spend points on "Armor Familiarity" to offset these additional armor modifiers. This skill functions much like penalty skill levels. This skill will not offset encumbrance penalties; it will only offset the additional armor penalties. 1 point will offset up to -1 of the DCV/DEX roll penalties from armor; 3 points will offset up to -2 of the DCV/DEX roll penalties from armor; 6 points will offset up to -3 of the DCV/DEX roll penalties from armor; 10 points will offset up to -4 of the DCV/DEX roll penalties from armor; etc. [1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 5...]

 

Example: Conan has Armor Familiarity +1 for which he spent 1 character point. His strength is phenomenal and he can wear any normal armor without worrying too much about encumbrance penalties. If he wears chain mail (DEF 6), he will suffer a -1 to his DCV and DEX rolls because DEF 6 normal armor usually applies a -2 penalty but his +1 Armor Familiarity changes that to only -1. Naturally, if he wears anything from his famous loincloth through ring mail (DEF 4), he will suffer no penalty at all since the -1 DCV/DEX roll penalty from DEF 3 or DEF 4 armor is completely offset by his +1 Armor Familiarity. If Conan wears full plate (DEF 8), he will be at -3 DCV and DEX rolls (-4 +1 = -3).

 

Example: Roland the Paladin is wearing full plate (DEF 8) and carrying quite a bit of gear, so that even with his great strength he is encumbered to the -1 DCV/-1 DEX roll level. Roland has purchased Armor Familiarity +4, which completely offsets the -4 DCV/DEX roll penalty from the amor. His Armor Familiarity does nothing for the -1 DCV/-1 DEX roll penalty from his encumbrance, however, and so he continues to suffer those penalties. If he enters combat, it might - depending on circumstances - be a good idea for him to take a half phase to drop his pack to unload that weight, not to mention another half phase to get his weapon and shield ready.

 

This permits pretty much anyone to use light armor without any worries beyond standard encumbrance. It permits most characters to spend a point or three to be able to wear medium armor. But the heaviest armor can only be worn without additional non-encumbrance penalites by those who've spent some serious points in offsetting those penalties.

 

Note also that these Armor Familiarity levels do not offset any perception modifiers or other such penalties which might be imposed by having one's body covered by leather or metal in important places. They will help the character to prevent making additional creaking or clanking noises, whether from the armor moving against itself or against the floor or another surface, as expressed by the reduction in penalty to DEX rolls.

 

John H