Blackberry Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 I'm trying to help one of my players with a character concept. Here is his initial proposal: http://www.RainGamers.org/wiki/index.php/HERO:Think_Tank He is a telekinetic with the ability to create a TK "tank" around himself. Over the years, he has been expanding his power to new and creative uses, represented by the VPP. It's labeled "psychic powers" but it's really just more of his telekinetic powers. Nothing in this actually breaks a rule, as far as I can tell, but he's using two frameworks for two aspects of the same power, which is irking me. If he just added some new slots to his EC, with RSR or the like on them, he loses the flexibility of being able to do anything he can imagine. If he just goes with the VPP, he loses the dependability of his core applications. How would you handle it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyrm Ouroboros Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 Re: Think Tank This is perfectly legal, and perfectly advised by almost anyone on the board. Just remind him that the powers in his VPP cannot ADD to the powers in his EC -- he can't have 10" Flight in his VPP and be going 22" (i.e. adding 10" to his 12" EC Flight). He might consider the possibility of balling all his stuff into one VPP, though, making the VPP 'Cosmic' (0 Phase Change, No Skill Roll) and dumping the Power skill. This is, however, a point consideration as well as a stylistic consideration. Right now, he's looking at an 11- roll to change 70 Actives in his VPP -- remember, -1 to the roll for every 10 Actives he's changing, and he has 'only' an 18- roll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackberry Posted January 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 Re: Think Tank Good point, though he doesn't actually have Required Skill Roll on his VPP control. They are dependable powers. I guess I'm trying to figure out... If he has the telekinetic power to launch himself at better than Mach 10 from a standstill, he should gave the telekinetic power to level a city block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackberry Posted January 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 Re: Think Tank The VPP and EC don't stack, even if he VPPs himself "Aid Force Field"? Is that in FRED? He will ask, and I don't have FRED with me at work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy_The_Ruthles Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 Re: Think Tank I don't think you can use one framework to adjust a power inside another framework, that's how I understood the "Combining frameworks" stuff I read this morning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kdansky Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 Re: Think Tank Well, defenses always stack (you can have two armors or two force fields, SFX permitting) and that is a problem for VPPs, since one can get way too high defenses with them. But no, not other things. Else: Considering 14d6 Attacks, he will go down first solid hit with 26 stun. He should buy up strength and the following secondaries, which would be a lot cheaper than only buying strength, since he needs all these. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 Re: Think Tank Page 310 5ER: you can't combine (or stack) powers from two frameworks i.e. he can not put up a 47/47 force field, and you specifically can not adjust one framework with another. He is indeed a great and mighty turtle though, although I note that is is wildly vulnerable to mental powers and, when using any kind of offensive power like ST/TK or whatever at a decent level, horribly vulnerable to normal damage too: 37 stun will stun him and 44 will KO him - and a 14d6 attack (if that is campaign acceptable - he can certainly throw that much) averages 49 stun. Also he has a CV of 6: not exactly stellar - he can hurt, but can he hit? Personally I think the character seems interesting - powerful, certainly (but even with 35/35 force fields, 4 x 14d6 hits KO him) but also vulnerable - not, in other words, unbalanced (well, to the extent that I can say that without knowing more about the campaign). I would not worry about his two frameworks: this is a valid construction and can even be justified with sfx: he is perhaps more experienced with the EC powers, using them more naturally, and they have become an extension of him: the vast majority of his psychic/TK energy is inchoate and requires mental discipline to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Samson Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 Re: Think Tank One of my favorite pictures from Deviant Art is called Think Tank. I'm just sayin... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Hiemforth Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 Re: Think Tank I have no particular comment on the question at hand, I just felt compelled to note that I love the name Think Tank for a character, and am totally going to swipe it (albeit for a different concept). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 Re: Think Tank A friend, who posts on these very boards - occasionally - ran a Champions game with a sort of version of the Fantastic 4 as opponents. The Reed Richards analogue had got the powers of the Thing, and was called 'Think Tank', and it fitted beautifully. Brilliant game, with an underlying concept that superpowers were a function of, at least to some extent, the collective unconscious manifesting through myth. I was playing 'Monster Girl', a shapeshifter who always assumed monstrous forms, including a rubber-clawed Godzilla type . You may have heard me mention her before. I'm waffling, aren't I....? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyrm Ouroboros Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 Re: Think Tank Good point, though he doesn't actually have Required Skill Roll on his VPP control. They are dependable powers. I guess I'm trying to figure out... If he has the telekinetic power to launch himself at better than Mach 10 from a standstill, he should gave the telekinetic power to level a city block. The powers in the VPP are as reliable as any other; changing the VPP requires a skill roll when in combat, or else it takes between 1 Turn and 1 Minute. A so-called Cosmic pool can change as a 0-Phase Action and requires no skill roll to change; both of these are +1 Advantages. Think Tank has the Power skill (Psychic Powers: Power 18-, Real Cost 7), which is required to change the VPP in combat, and took a +1/2 Advantage on the Pool so that he can change the powers as a half-phase action. All in all, he's spent 185 points for these powers; that's a 93-point Cosmic VPP with the 'Limited Powers (Psychic, -1/2)'. While this is moderately powerful one-on-one, it isn't quite as full-strength flexible -- he couldn't have all of the EC powers up at once at the level (and lack of disad) that they're currently at, all at once. As for levelling a city block, well -- for 79 points you can get a 1 km hex Megascale 3d6 RKA vs. inanimate objects only ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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