schir1964 Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 Target/Range Definitions For Powers (Breakdown And Application) Powers have a default Target Type and default Range. Target Type Self: Power may only affect the owner of the power. Any One Thing: Power may affect any one thing. Area: Power encompasses a defined area and any thing within the area is affected. Note: Target Type is a linked progression. To change from Self to Area requires two steps (Self -> Any One Thing -> Area) and vice versa. Also, any modifiers that change the Target Type to Self or Area require only one level to address changing Any One Thing to Self or Area and vice versa. Max Range No Range: Power has a Max Range of Zero. Reach Range: Power has a Max Range of Normal Reach. Standard Range: Power has a Max Range based on the Active Points in the Power. Throwing Range: Power has a Max Range based on owners throwing maximum. Line Of Sight Range: Power has a Max Range of Sight Perception. If you can see it, your power can reach it. Unlimited Range: Power has no Max Range limit. - Christopher Mullins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 Re: Mechanic Definitions: Power Target/Range Self is specifically listed in both the Type (EDIT: I meant to say Target) and Range section of 5ER. The 4 ranges in the book are usually considered Self, No Range (there is a difference), Standard Range (on which Range Based on Strength is a Limitation), and Line of Sight. I'm really not sure where you found an Unlimited Range? Or are you suggesting this as a new definition? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schir1964 Posted January 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 Re: Mechanic Definitions: Power Target/Range Or are you suggesting this as a new definition? Yes, in order to clear up some confusion on how some advantages/limitations are applied. - Christopher Mullins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schir1964 Posted January 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 Re: Mechanic Definitions: Power Target/Range Added Line Of Sight to range types. Also, Unlimited Range is supported by the current system. There is an Advantage that allows you remove the Max Range limitation on a power. At least, I think I remember reading that somewhere in the book. - Christopher Mullins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 Re: Mechanic Definitions: Power Target/Range I would rename Zero Range as No Range just to be consistent with the current rules. I still see merit in Self Area Of Effect, I'm not sure Area shouldn't be a modifier on targets of Self and Other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schir1964 Posted January 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 Re: Mechanic Definitions: Power Target/Range Zero Range renamed to No Range. - Christopher Mullins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 Re: Mechanic Definitions: Power Target/Range I've always been slightly concerned about attacks that affect a single target, say an unadvantaged EB, affecting very large targets. I would suggest that we consider incorporating that idea into the 'target' definition so that we don't have 'any one thing' as a target definition: sure you have a 1000d6 EB, but it is not going to be enough to destroy the planet, even if it is a single target. Perhaps very large objects should only be meaningfully damaged by AoE attacks, or at least attacks that they can fully fit withint he range of (1000d6 has a 'standard' 50km range). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schir1964 Posted January 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 Re: Mechanic Definitions: Power Target/Range I've always been slightly concerned about attacks that affect a single target, say an unadvantaged EB, affecting very large targets. I would suggest that we consider incorporating that idea into the 'target' definition so that we don't have 'any one thing' as a target definition: sure you have a 1000d6 EB, but it is not going to be enough to destroy the planet, even if it is a single target. Perhaps very large objects should only be meaningfully damaged by AoE attacks, or at least attacks that they can fully fit withint he range of (1000d6 has a 'standard' 50km range). What you are addressing here is the problem that the Hero System has with the interaction of two things that are at different scales. There have been other threads that have discussed this and possible solutions on how different scaled things interact: * A 1000d6 Energy Blast at Normal Human Scale vs Earth's Body at Planetary Scale * A 100d6 Energy Blast at Planetary Scale vs Earth's Body at Planetary Scale * A 10d6 Energy Blast at Planetary Scale vs Human's Body at Normal Human Scale I would prefer this solution for different scale interactions instead of trying to fix it with kludges to this mechanic. However, if you think there is an easy fix for it, I'm all ears. (8^D) - Christopher Mullins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schir1964 Posted January 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 Re: Mechanic Definitions: Power Target/Range Added more info concerning changing Target Types. - Christopher Mullins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 Re: Mechanic Definitions: Power Target/Range What you are addressing here is the problem that the Hero System has with the interaction of two things that are at different scales. There have been other threads that have discussed this and possible solutions on how different scaled things interact: * A 1000d6 Energy Blast at Normal Human Scale vs Earth's Body at Planetary Scale * A 100d6 Energy Blast at Planetary Scale vs Earth's Body at Planetary Scale * A 10d6 Energy Blast at Planetary Scale vs Human's Body at Normal Human Scale I would prefer this solution for different scale interactions instead of trying to fix it with kludges to this mechanic. However, if you think there is an easy fix for it, I'm all ears. (8^D) - Christopher Mullins Maybe not an easy fix, and certainly not not a kludge, but perhaps anything that is (say) more than 16x* human scale needs at least 1 level of AoE (+1) to affect. I'd have to sit down and work out what scale the Earth is compared to a human but, to blow it up, you'd need to do enough damage and have at least AoE(+1) with enough doublings to take you within 4 doublings of that scale. I'm just thinking out loud here.... *or 32x or 64x or whatever - the principle is mroe important than the actual numbers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 Re: Mechanic Definitions: Power Target/Range Maybe not an easy fix, and certainly not not a kludge, but perhaps anything that is (say) more than 16x* human scale needs at least 1 level of AoE (+1) to affect. I'd have to sit down and work out what scale the Earth is compared to a human but, to blow it up, you'd need to do enough damage and have at least AoE(+1) with enough doublings to take you within 4 doublings of that scale. I'm just thinking out loud here.... *or 32x or 64x or whatever - the principle is mroe important than the actual numbers To hit massive targets I would require some degree of Megascale Area Of Effect. Otherwise you're boring a very nice Hex Sized hole through it. . . Just as a campaign parameter. (who knows, could be in-genre to blow up a planet with eye beams.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilFleischmann Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Re: Mechanic Definitions: Power Target/Range I assume that by "No Range: Power has a Max Range of Zero." you mean to include both powers that only affect the user (literally Zero range) and powers that affect others at HtH distances (up to one Hex). If it matters for your purposes, you might want to distinguish between these two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Re: Mechanic Definitions: Power Target/Range He addresses that with the Type of target instead of the Range of target. A Self Target powers would probably have No Range, but a HtH would be an Any One Thing Target with No Range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilFleischmann Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Re: Mechanic Definitions: Power Target/Range It's still two (slightly) different ranges, though. Same hex (exact same location), vs. adjacent hex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Re: Mechanic Definitions: Power Target/Range Ah, I see what you mean. I believe No Range is meant to be the same as the current "No Range" range listed in the book. The "No Range" in the current rules is basically HtH Range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schir1964 Posted January 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Re: Mechanic Definitions: Power Target/Range Added Hand To Hand Range. - Christopher Mullins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 Re: Mechanic Definitions: Power Target/Range Purely as a matter of preference I would call HtH Range 'Reach Range', just so no one thinks there is a difference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schir1964 Posted January 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 Re: Mechanic Definitions: Power Target/Range Modified again. - Christopher Mullins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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