teleporter attacking fliers

[secretID]

I'm GMing a teleporting MArtist who, naturally enough, teleports to fliers and whacks them. A few things seem a little funny about this when I think of the "reality."

 

The less troublesome one is the leverage/resistance issue in attacking. When a flier throws a punch, to me there's a presumed stability inherent in the flight that allows the flier to do full damage. With a non-flyer teleporting into the air, it's a lot more like falling - could you really land an effective blow?

 

The one that concerns me more is defending. This guy teleports into the air, lands his blow, and immediately starts falling. Even "before" that (i.e., before that DEX point on the next seg), though, he's completely unstable. I can't think he could defend himself very well.

 

One specific question: Is there a set DCV penalty for falling? - I can't find one.

 

More generally, how do/would y'all do this? One thing I'm thinking of requiring that the first attack be or include a grab (e.g., allow a grab-strike sweep).

 

Thanks in advance.

[Mr. Gridlock]

Re: teleporter attacking fliers

 

What's the SFX of his teleport? That would be a big determiner for me. Depending on how well the attack is described I could see myself allowing it.

 

Requiring him to grab first would work if you want it the most realistic. Grab then knee strike seems ideal for that.

 

I would not give him full DCV while falling. Probably 1/2.

 

Falling DCV has never come up for me, but I'd either just use 1/2 or calculate it from velocity.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: teleporter attacking fliers

 

The closest official ruling I could find is the 1/2 DCV modifier for being in Zero Gravity (5er page 373) which is what the first few seconds of falling is.

 

Here are a couple of 'teleportation' sfx ideas to help get around such an issue.

 

Buy a version of Teleport with a Trigger (whenever falling) Only to teleport to the ground.

 

Buy enough Stretching with the Does Not Cross Intervening Space Advantage (representing a mini-teleport-gate punch).

 

Buy 1" of Flight.

[secretID]

Re: teleporter attacking fliers

 

The closest official ruling I could find is the 1/2 DCV modifier for being in Zero Gravity (5er page 373) which is what the first few seconds of falling is.

 

Good call! That's probably right on, since I don't think he's every going to be falling very far. I'll check there for effects on his strikes as well.

 

Buy enough Stretching with the Does Not Cross Intervening Space Advantage (representing a mini-teleport-gate punch).

That's interesting. Probably need indirect, too.

 

Re the earlier Q about special effects. Um...magic amulet...not sure what else to say...

[KA.]

Re: teleporter attacking fliers

 

I have a few questions about how this is working.

Let me begin by saying that most of what follows depends on how realistic your campaign is.

In some campaigns all of this could be completely normal.

 

1) How the heck does the Martial Artist wind up in the correct place to hit?

I know that movement happens "instantly", but it still seems like you would need to make a DEX roll, a Teleportation roll, or something to land in the exact right spot to land a blow on someone flying. Either that or suffer an OCV penalty (at least after the first time you did it. I guess if it was a Surprise then things would cancel out).

 

2) Does the character have a Psych Lim like "Thrillseeker" or perhaps "Insane"?

I know that heroes are supposed to do "heroic" things, but unless something major was at stake (saving a hostage, stopping a villain that was about to destroy the world, etc) I can't see anyone Teleporting into a situation that they had no good way to deal with.

What if he gets KO'ed and falls to the ground?

What if the flyer has some type of precognition or Danger Sense and does a Move Through on him just as he pops into place?

What if the Flyer grabs him and does a power dive into the ground, releasing the Teleporter just before they hit, with the Teleporter having no way to get rid of the extra velocity?

To make it the worst of both worlds, what if the Flyer performs a Grab and is strong enough to Squeeze the teleporter unconscious, and then does the Power Dive?

 

As a GM, I am not saying that all these terrible things should happen to the character , but if there is any realism at all in the campaign, the character should realize that they could happen and act appropriately.

 

Again, it seems like even a hero, in their right mind, would not take such a rash action unless lives were on the line.

 

3) Falling

I think the character should be at 1/2 DVC against anyone who is at some range, since they are moving.

On the other hand, if they don't have any form of Gliding, or Skydiving Skill, or something to allow them some maneuverablity in the air, they should pretty much be a sitting duck for a Flyer who can match speeds with them.

Think about it. One character is falling in one direction (straight down), and the other character is able to match speed, staying safely one hex away, from an opponent who has no control over his movements other than flailing his arms. Probably DCV 3, the same as a hex.

 

Again, if you run a swashbuckling campaign, none of this may apply.

I do not think this is something that should be discouraged in the game, it sounds fun and exciting.

But I do think that, unless the character has some other abilities to make it safer, that it should be seen as a last-ditch, do-or-die, stunt, not something done every other adventure.

 

KA.

[Sean Waters]

Re: teleporter attacking fliers

 

The rules allow you to teleport near to a flying character and attack at full OCV, DCV and damage. Logically you might not be able to manage the leverage and whatnot, but we are not really dealing in logic here: logically a 100kg character with 60 STR could never really apply his full strength in a punch unless he was punching directly upward and the ground below was VERY solid. Realistically such a character would go flying backwards with the reaction.

 

I'm all for reality in games but I'm wary when you start applying reality selectively. It has to be all or nothing, or you are just raining on certain concepts. Assume, if you need an explanation, that the teleporting character can get into position to apply his attack at full effect - possibly directly above the flier and, expecting to fall, he is not otherwise inconvenienced. Characters usually know how to use their own powers to full effect. A teleporter who has practiced this trick could start the swing when they are on the ground and THEN teleport. You don't require a flier or runner to make a DEX roll to get to attack range, and you shouldn't with a teleporter (obviously you would with a leaper).

 

If you want the character to be more 'realistic' (for a certain value of realism) then don't change the rules, require the player to change the build. If, for instance, he has DCV levels and pulls this sort of trick a lot, require a limitation 'can not use DCV levels if not when in freefall'. You could even require a limitation: Phys Lim - disoriented when teleporting into freefall: 1/2 DCV (probably a 5 or 10 point limitation depending on how you build it).

[secretID]

Re: teleporter attacking fliers

 

1) How the heck does the Martial Artist wind up in the correct place to hit?

I know that movement happens "instantly", but it still seems like you would need to make a DEX roll, a Teleportation roll, or something to land in the exact right spot to land a blow on someone flying.

Well, at the moment I'm really thinking more of hovering, so there isn't quite the same timing issue. Even with a flier who's flitting about, though, I'm disinclined to open up that area of questions. This is an online game, so I do a lot of fudging on positioning, so that I'm not constantly updating maps and tracking position and velocity.

 

What if he gets KO'ed and falls to the ground?

We're probably not talking about heights enough to be a real issue. These are superheroes.

 

What if the flyer has some type of precognition or Danger Sense and does a Move Through on him just as he pops into place?

What if the Flyer grabs him and does a power dive into the ground, releasing the Teleporter just before they hit, with the Teleporter having no way to get rid of the extra velocity?

To make it the worst of both worlds, what if the Flyer performs a Grab and is strong enough to Squeeze the teleporter unconscious, and then does the Power Dive?

Hm. Personally, I don't see those as much worse than the usual risks of getting into a fistfight with a superhuman. Plus, the guy has got a pretty good strike. He may choose not to employ the strategy against someone likely to shrug it off.

 

But I do think that' date=' unless the character has some other abilities to make it safer, that it should be seen as a last-ditch, do-or-die, stunt, not something done every other adventure.[/quote']

I guess it's something of a personality issue. Personally, I wouldn't hesitate to do the same, playing this character. (In fact, I have a similar one.)

[secretID]

Re: teleporter attacking fliers

 

The rules allow you to teleport near to a flying character and attack at full OCV' date=' DCV and damage.[/quote']

Er...I'm not saying you're wrong, but what makes you say that? You just mean that there aren't specific restrictions, i.e., they're in adjacent hexes, so that's that? I may agree with you, but I was wondering if you had some more specific reason.

 

I am skeptical of what you say about DCV, which was more my concern. Since he is falling from the moment he teleports, he should have a "falling DCV," if there is such a thing. If there is no such thing, I'm inclined to think that was an oversight. The zero-G rule seems to fit nicely.

 

I'm all for reality in games but I'm wary when you start applying reality selectively. It has to be all or nothing' date=' or you are just raining on certain concepts.[/quote']

I don't know. Aren't we all drawing lines, just in different places? I assume just about no one makes the 60 STR guy go flying from his own punch, but even the rules restrict (or suggest a restriction on), say, the use of MA DCs in certain situations.

 

I see STR and flight as including the resistance to recoil, etc., pretty much by necessity. But that isn't an inherent part of teleportation (as opposed to, say, the displacement of dust particles, which I would say is).

 

Point taken, though. And as I said, I'm less concerned with the ability to attack, which is solely a realism issue, really, than with the DCV, which seems like just the kind of thing that the rules usually cover.

[prestidigitator]

Re: teleporter attacking fliers

 

I'd allow full damage unless maybe the attack has very interesting SFX. While falling I'd also halve DCV, UNLESS the character makes a Breakfall roll, in which case I'd probably give like a -2 DCV (I view Breakfall as the character's ability to be somewhat in control of himself during free fall, though I probably wouldn't use it for full zero-gravity maneuvering). I'd probably give only -1 DCV if the Breakfall roll is made by 5, and full DCV if it's made by 10. I'd probably also impose a -1 OCV penalty to the attack if there isn't such a successful Breakfall roll (and/or maybe if the character missed a roll to target his Teleport--when applicable--but was still within attacking range).

 

But Knockback seems the more interesting problem in my mind. I'm not sure if I'd make the attacker and the flyer each take half the Knockback (after Knockback dice are subtracted), or make the attacker take all of it. But I don't think I'd have the attacker take none and the target flyer take normal Knockback except in some kind of extreme circumstances.

[braincraft]

Re: teleporter attacking fliers

 

Nightcrawler does this all the time. I can't think of any problem with it.

 

If you want to get into the nuts and bolts of why it's physically impossible, that's your business, but it's going to be a long day.

[Bloodstone]

Re: teleporter attacking fliers

 

Keeping in mind that SFX might change my opinion here...

 

The less troublesome one is the leverage/resistance issue in attacking. When a flier throws a punch' date=' to me there's a presumed stability inherent in the flight that allows the flier to do full damage. With a non-flyer teleporting into the air, it's a lot more like falling - could you really land an effective blow?[/quote']

 

I'm not seeing how this sort of thing would be different to a jump kick or superman punch to a non-flyer. The teleport aspect just gives you a lot more options on what targets you can reasonably reach with it.

 

Unless he's trying to use gravity to perform Move Throughs and such, in which case then I might be concerned about him aiming things right (PER Roll and possible attack roll).

 

The one that concerns me more is defending. This guy teleports into the air, lands his blow, and immediately starts falling. Even "before" that (i.e., before that DEX point on the next seg), though, he's completely unstable. I can't think he could defend himself very well.

 

What if he was using Leaping to do this instead? Would you want to penalize him for jumping up, hitting a flier and then having to land afterward?

 

If he's too close to the ground, he's going to hit before he gets another action. If not, he should be able to teleport to safety.

 

One specific question: Is there a set DCV penalty for falling? - I can't find one.

 

Nope, and only limited info on it in the Environmental Conditions section.

 

Frankly, I think adding penalties to it might downplay some great cinematic moments, but you may well be going for that.

 

Is he just trying to port in and smack them once and then port back? or is he trying to stay up there and brawl?

 

The Does Not Cross Intervening Space Stretching option is a great way to simulate the former.

 

More generally, how do/would y'all do this? One thing I'm thinking of requiring that the first attack be or include a grab (e.g., allow a grab-strike sweep).

 

I'm not sure if I would, since the character has paid points for near total freedom of movement in three dimensional space. However, I'm also not working with as much info as you are here so...

[secretID]

Re: teleporter attacking fliers

 

What if he was using Leaping to do this instead? Would you want to penalize him for jumping up' date=' hitting a flier and then having to land afterward?[/quote']

Hmm. Maybe. Using the leaping w/o doing a move through/by seems pretty silly, now that I think about it.

 

If he's too close to the ground' date=' he's going to hit before he gets another action. If not, he should be able to teleport to safety.[/quote']

I'm looking at those segments before he has a chance to teleport away again. When I think of Nightcrawler doing it, I think of it as port-punch-port. I probably wouldn't have noticed it if an action were always saved to allow for that on consecutive phases. (I'm not saying that's all perfectly consistent; I'm just mentioning it.)

 

 

I appreciate all the comments. For now, I'm going with:

- 1/2 KB, but no other attack restriction

- 1/2 DCV as long as he's in the air, unless he has deliberately set it up so that he has an action on the next seg, with which he will port again.

[Sean Waters]

Re: teleporter attacking fliers

 

Er...I'm not saying you're wrong, but what makes you say that? You just mean that there aren't specific restrictions, i.e., they're in adjacent hexes, so that's that? I may agree with you, but I was wondering if you had some more specific reason.

 

I am skeptical of what you say about DCV, which was more my concern. Since he is falling from the moment he teleports, he should have a "falling DCV," if there is such a thing. If there is no such thing, I'm inclined to think that was an oversight. The zero-G rule seems to fit nicely.

 

Zero-G is very different from freefall: even though you may effectively feel weightless you are still in a gravity field, there is still a sense of orientation and there is still a horizon. You jump up half a metre off the ground, at the apex of the jump your velocity becomes zero as your momentum is contered by gravity and you are efectively weightless, but you don't suddenly start getting dizzy and throwing up (well, maybe after a heavy drinking session ) Also a problem with true zero-G is that you can go off in any direction: you need to worry about that too.

 

Despite that, if you want to impose zero-G modifiers, te player can get around it by buying LS zero-G for 1 point or PS Zero-G operations. Effectively you are penalising him by 1-3 points for doing a particular power combination. I don't think it is worth it or that realistic anyway.

 

When you are in freefall you would have a reduced DCV - logically - but, unless the character the teleporter was attacking has a held action, the teleporter will have fallen away at least 5" before the character reacts. If you are on a tall building and drop onto a flier

 

Hero has rules that are there for 'realism' and rules for 'game balance' and rules for 'game play'. The best of them address all issues, but tha is not necessarily possible in a game where the impossible is commonplace. Logically no normal sized character, no matter HOW strong could lift up an ocean liner because, no matter they can physically lift that much there is not a single part they can get a handhold on that will not tear loose under the weight of the rest of it.

 

Realism is a fluid concept. We are after comic book realism at best and, as Braincraft says, Nightcrawler does it all the time.

 

Having said that, I'd probably apply a penalty to DCV after the first phase, or possibly segment - once you are in freefall you have no control over your movement, so you would have less opportunity to avoid attacks, but an expected fall is not the same as an unexpected one. We do not halve the DCV of a character BEING KB'd, and that is certainly uncontrolled movement.

 

It is a matter of balance, really. Look at page 434 though - catching a falling character. It says that to catch a faller you have to roll tot hit them and they 'typically have a DCV of 3' for these purposes. I'd assume that involves a compliant faller, or at least one not actively resisting being caught.

 

What you do is up to you, but I would not be inclined to consider imposing a DCV penalty unless the 'porter (or anyone else without flight/gliding) was falling further than they could in a phase, so, probably 15-30", depending on SPD.

 

 

I don't know. Aren't we all drawing lines, just in different places? I assume just about no one makes the 60 STR guy go flying from his own punch, but even the rules restrict (or suggest a restriction on), say, the use of MA DCs in certain situations.

 

I see STR and flight as including the resistance to recoil, etc., pretty much by necessity. But that isn't an inherent part of teleportation (as opposed to, say, the displacement of dust particles, which I would say is).

 

Point taken, though. And as I said, I'm less concerned with the ability to attack, which is solely a realism issue, really, than with the DCV, which seems like just the kind of thing that the rules usually cover.

 

The important thing is to have an enjoyable game, and if both you and the players enjoy realism (for a certain value of 'real') then go hog wild, but generally too much realism gets in the way. If you are really worried not from the reality PoV but because a particular maneouvre seems TOO potent then think it through, and try and find reasons why looking at in-game existing criteria.

 

Mind you I can not see why a move and attack should cause particular problems, especially as it is followed by a fall. Try having a flier realise the attack pattern and hold an action, then punch the teleporter as they appear. If they do KB, the porter will not be close enough to attack. They might even get a surprise bonus the first time they do it - then the 'porter will be wary...

 

I can suggest all kinds of fixes, but, realistically, even '1/2 DCV' is not realism, it is just an arbitrary penalty, and one that penalises the very dextrous more than the less dextrous. If I feel a player is abusing a power construct or taking advantage of some meta rule (or lack thereof) I'd rather find a way to encourage them to change their pattern than make up a rule to enforce a pattern change.

[Sean Waters]

Re: teleporter attacking fliers

 

Hmm. Maybe. Using the leaping w/o doing a move through/by seems pretty silly' date=' now that I think about it. [/quote']

 

If you can do more damage with a martial flying kick than a move through, it is probably silly to MT, unless that is the only way you can get there and attack. You might only have 4" of leaping but have to cross a gap to get to the opponent. Leap and kick might be a far better bet than a move through. You're not in contact with the ground normally when performing a flying kick, why should you be penalised that phase just because (this time) you are 20" above the ground?

 

On subsequent phases of freefall, I can see an argument for a CV penalty, but not so much on the phase you arrive as planned.

 

 

I'm looking at those segments before he has a chance to teleport away again. When I think of Nightcrawler doing it, I think of it as port-punch-port. I probably wouldn't have noticed it if an action were always saved to allow for that on consecutive phases. (I'm not saying that's all perfectly consistent; I'm just mentioning it.)

 

 

I appreciate all the comments. For now, I'm going with:

- 1/2 KB, but no other attack restriction

- 1/2 DCV as long as he's in the air, unless he has deliberately set it up so that he has an action on the next seg, with which he will port again.

 

If you seek realism, roll the KB normally and apply half to the target and half to the 'porter. Action and reaction

 

I would argue for a DCV penalty rather than a divider or you penalise high dex characters more than low dex ones, which does not seem appropriate in this case, but your call. I would also not apply the penalty in the phase that the character arrives, just on any subsequent 'falling' phases, but again, it is your game. My argument is that int eh phase he arrives he IS under controlled movement. Bear in mind that if he falls to the ground before he ports away then he should be prone, which imposes combat penalties anyway. Even if he has breakfall and you allow him to mitigate falling damage* he is still prone until his next phase.

 

*If he attacks and falls and hits ground before his next phase he shouldn't even get a breakfall roll to mitigate damage

[braincraft]

Re: teleporter attacking fliers

 

If you seek realism' date=' roll the KB normally and apply half to the target and half to the 'porter. Action and reaction [/quote']

 

If you really seek realism, you'd do this for every attack.

 

I notice that for a lot of people, when adjudicating game mechanics, never ask themselves if their efforts are making the game more fun. The answer is, all too often, no. Is there really, really a good reason for adding tons of new, specific mechanics that may interact in unforseen ways with the rest of the engine, simply for 'realism'? (And I hasten to point out that what is being proposed here isn't actually realistic in any case. No, I'm not talking about the inherent lunacy in any serious discussion of teleporting martial artists, either.)

 

This whole thread is extra work for something that shouldn't be a question. The guy wants to use a movement power to punch a flying dude. If you really want to make life harder for him, tell him he needs to abort a phase to teleport back to the ground or fall into it. If he's got the breakfall roll or the toughness to ignore a short fall, fine, he paid the points to not have to worry about it.

 

Find it within yourself to get through what I am sure must be a harrowing situation and get back to the part where you're punching bad guys. Don't be a buzzkill GM.

[secretID]

Re: teleporter attacking fliers

 

On subsequent phases of freefall' date=' I can see an argument for a CV penalty, but not so much on the phase you arrive as planned.[/quote']

That makes sense, and it's a much cleaner line than the "unless you are porting next seg" I used.

 

If you seek realism' date=' roll the KB normally and apply half to the target and half to the 'porter. Action and reaction [/quote']

Yeah, yeah, I know. But I'm really not trying to discourage the move, as that probably would.

 

I would argue for a DCV penalty rather than a divider or you penalise high dex characters more than low dex ones' date=' which does not seem appropriate in this case, but your call. I would also not apply the penalty in the phase that the character arrives, just on any subsequent 'falling' phases, but again, it is your game. My argument is that int eh phase he arrives he IS under controlled movement.[/quote']

Both very smart - thanks. You're earlier stuff about the difference with zero-G also made sense; it shouldn't be as much as zero-G.

[Mr. Gridlock]

Re: teleporter attacking fliers

 

I think the default position of a GM should be that of saying yes to his/her players. That being said, let the genre help you decide. Is this Iron Age? Then perhaps this isn't the most realistic maneuver and should be allowed but either with penalties or only specific maneuvers (such as my previous example of a Grab and kneestrike). If this is 4-color, then I would allow it outright.

 

Realism should be appllied only on a gradient scale as it pertains to the genre. Gritty Iron Age should have more, 4-color less.

[secretID]

Re: teleporter attacking fliers

 

I notice that for a lot of people' date=' when adjudicating game mechanics, never ask themselves if their efforts are making the game more fun. The answer is, all too often, no. Is there really, [i']really[/i] a good reason for adding tons of new, specific mechanics that may interact in unforseen ways with the rest of the engine, simply for 'realism'?

Well, there's a question of how much structure one wants in order to preserve a depth of fun. I could just run a diceless, ruleless game, which would be much simpler and quicker, and funner in many ways, I'm sure. Given the complexity of the Hero system, I'd assume that most of us are already pretty far on the rules side of the rules/"fun" spectrum.

 

How does the zero-G DCV mod make the game more fun? How do the acceleration rules make it more fun? (This is near to my heart, because I find the movement rules hugely annoying, and I'd love to have a simpler system that didn't raise complaints.)

 

If this helps, the first time the maneuver was used, I encountered every issue. The PC was on top of the target, got a lot of downward KB, and then got attacked by another flyer before his next phase. I like the move and I would certainly do the same, but as I'm mapping this in my head, all I can see is this guy floating static in the air as the world goes on around him, and it started to seem a little silly.

 

I suppose I could say, "I follow the rules, even parts I don't like, and I never add anything, even when I think there's an oversight and inconsistency." That's less work for me, but I don't see how it's more fun for the players. It's definitely no fun to stop the action and hash through a rule or house rule, which may be part of your point, but this is a PBP game, and I've already made an interim ruling, so that's not an issue.

 

Otherwise, I don't happen to believe that the rules as is are per se The Absolutely Perfect Balance of Realism and Fun such that they should never be touched.

 

All that said, I appreciate the point, and I need reminding of that sometimes.

[jwpacker]

Re: teleporter attacking fliers

 

Had to come back to this, because I was just reading through the 5th Ed Revised and found the ruling on what happens when you're falling.

 

If someone attacks a falling character, the character has his base DCV. He can't apply Combat Skill Levels, Maneuvers or the like to increase his DCV unless the GM permits him to.

[/Quote]

 

Nothing about impacts to OCV at all, but DCV is covered...

[Vulcan]

Re: teleporter attacking fliers

 

Another thing to bear in mind is player expectations. The player obviously expects this to work, an built his character around it. If you're going to cripple the ability with 'realistic' limitations (on a guy who can teleport? ) then the player should be told ahead of time so he doesn't waste points on something that won't work.

 

That way he can buy the 'Streaching' construct to duplicate what he wants to do, and is 'more accurate' to what the GM wants to see.

[prestidigitator]

Re: teleporter attacking fliers

 

Well, one of the things to consider is whether Teleport should do everything (or near enough) that Flight can do. If the player built his teleporter with the expectation of being able to go toe-to-toe with flying characters in their own element, there'd better be more on his belt than just Teleport IMO, and he'd better be checking with the GM on things like this question. So I don't think the onus is completely on the GM's end.

[prestidigitator]

Re: teleporter attacking fliers

 

One idea might be 1" Gliding/Flight that is Linked to the Teleport. I know you can't normally use more than one mode of movement in a Phase, but I think it would achieve the desired result, and it's cheap as all heck. AND the character would just be suspended until the Phase after teleporting, so it's not like he can just waft about when it doesn't make sense for his concept.

[Sean Waters]

Re: teleporter attacking fliers

 

Well' date=' one of the things to consider is whether Teleport should do everything (or near enough) that Flight can do. If the player built his teleporter with the expectation of being able to go toe-to-toe with flying characters in their own element, there'd better be more on his belt than just Teleport IMO, and he'd [i']better[/i] be checking with the GM on things like this question. So I don't think the onus is completely on the GM's end.

 

Teleporters are pretty effective against close ground targets but fliers can always go higher A teleporter without ranged attacks should lose against a competently played flier with ranged attacks. Of course it depends a lot on the battlefield: if the porter can hide and draw the flier in he evens the odds, and if the flier is height restricted (indoors, for instance) that smooths it too.

 

One thing I only recently realised is that TP does not suffer the 'only half distance straight up' thing most movement powers do, so if you can teleport 20" due north, you can teleport 20" straight up.

[Rockhoof]

Re: teleporter attacking fliers

 

You Almost Didn't See That! EB: Xd6 SFX: Character lays the smackdown by quickly teleporting to the target, punching their lights out and 'porting back.

 

Thought You Could Run, Didn't You? Stretching X", Does Not Cross Intervening Space SFX Same as above.

 

Why complicate things?

 

Braincraft said it best at the bottom of the first page: "I notice that for a lot of people, when adjudicating game mechanics, never ask themselves if their efforts are making the game more fun. The answer is, all too often, no. Is there really, really a good reason for adding tons of new, specific mechanics that may interact in unforseen ways with the rest of the engine, simply for 'realism'? (And I hasten to point out that what is being proposed here isn't actually realistic in any case. No, I'm not talking about the inherent lunacy in any serious discussion of teleporting martial artists, either.)"

[secretID]

Re: teleporter attacking fliers

 

You Almost Didn't See That! EB: Xd6 SFX: Character lays the smackdown by quickly teleporting to the target, punching their lights out and 'porting back.

 

Thought You Could Run, Didn't You? Stretching X", Does Not Cross Intervening Space SFX Same as above.

 

Why complicate things?

I appreciate those builds, but:

1) Is the idea that I would insist that the character pay the points for the extra power, and force him to accept an attack of lower DC?

2) The character is already built and in use - is the idea that I insist that he rewrite him or wait for XP?

 

I think the limitations I talked about are far less burdensome than that, at least for this particular character. I also think a DCV penalty is exactly the kind of thing the rules have all over the place, so I don't find it strange or burdensome.

 

As it turns out, as someone found, the rules explicitly give no DCV penalty while falling, so this would be a house rule. That makes me a bit less likely to do it, but I don't think that the rules have EXACTLY the right level of complexity, so that any tinkering is too much. I just wish I had some good ways to tinker to eliminate some existing complications.