Entangle Armor

[Dust Raven]

I was just checking out some of the recent Q&A on the boards, and noticed the concept of Entangle with Personal Immunity. My first thought was "wow! that's how I can write up this character's armor". Then I read Steve's answer which said it shouldn't be allowed if the purpose was to get more defenses.

 

So, just how would I write this up?

 

The character can create "generic mater", mold it into shapes, hurl it at people and so on. One of the things he does is create hunks of it around people (Entangles) and creates armor for himself. The thing is, I want the armor to work just like an Entangle (total DEF+BODY is subtracted from damage with and BODY that exceedes the DEF doing damage to the armor), but without imparing the character's movement. I've thought of using Ablative, but that doesn't quite work the same way.

 

Any ideas?

[GamePhil]

I can think of two ways.

 

1. Buy a Force Wall, give it Usable As Attack. Then, with the GM's permission, make it Self Only (yes, I know that's odd). The Usable As Attack allows it to move with the target (Shadowboxer, in Millenium City, has a similar ability, I believe), and the target happens to be yourself. Buy Indirect on all abilities that you can throw through it (Personal Immunity shouldn't be used for this, I think, because it is too cheap for the effect, but if you can get permission to do it that way feel free).

 

2. Build a Vehicle representing the Armor. It should be able to move as you do (or, possibly, you carry it with you if your STR is high enough) and allow you to use your Powers normally. Then, buy a Slavishly Loyal Summon to create this Vehicle.

 

Those are close to by the book, I think. I tend to go with a house Advantage called Rigid Armor to make personal defenses work like walls.

[Jeff]

Originally posted by GamePhil

I can think of two ways.

 

1. Buy a Force Wall, give it Usable As Attack. Then, with the GM's permission, make it Self Only (yes, I know that's odd). The Usable As Attack allows it to move with the target (Shadowboxer, in Millenium City, has a similar ability, I believe), and the target happens to be yourself.

Force Walls centered on the person throwing them up can be made to move with him or her without an advantage necessary (FREd, p. 117, last paragraph main power description). Same goes for Darkness. I don't think it goes for Images, Change Environment, or other Constant AE powers - there's no reference I've been able to find, though it would make sense.

[Jeff]

Re: Entangle Armor

 

Originally posted by Dust Raven

I was just checking out some of the recent Q&A on the boards, and noticed the concept of Entangle with Personal Immunity. My first thought was "wow! that's how I can write up this character's armor". Then I read Steve's answer which said it shouldn't be allowed if the purpose was to get more defenses.

It's not quite that strong:

 

"There's no specific rule against it. Whether a GM chooses to allow it, or to allow any particular use of such a power, is another question entirely. I suspect many would consider it unbalancing if the intention is to use it to grant extra defenses to a character."

 

So it's a GM call based on balance. Me, I wouldn't be worried by it, especially when it fits what you're looking for that well and nothing else is going to come all that close.

[JMHammer]

Reforming your "entangle armor" is an attack action.

 

Making ablative armor using Entangle sounds like a very neat idea and fits your character conception very well. There are advantages to Entangle-based armor, so I would be sure to enforce one of the basic rules on making an Entangle: Doing so is an attack action, and therefore requires a half-phase action that ends your phase. Therefore, unlike an armor special effect using Armor or Force Field or Force Wall, you will not be able to raise your armor effect and attack in the same phase.

 

John H

 

edit: On the other hand, I would allow the same Entangle power w/Personal Immunity that creates your armor effect to be used to throw normal Entangles so that you wouldn't have to buy it twice.

[austenandrews]

I use Entangle as a defensive power in my fantasy game. The mechanics of "chipping away" are much more interesting than the usual "flat" defenses. Then again, I routinely scoff at the notion that you can only use a restricted set of powers to achieve a desired effect (like defense). I think it's silly to twist yourself into knots trying to make Force Field or Force Wall behave like Entangle, when you already have Entangle.

 

I think Personal Immunity sounds fine for what you want. However, that's only if you want to use it as a regular Entangle, too. If I were your GM, I'd suggest buying an attack version of the power and an armor version. For the armor, I'd probably allow "Does Not Restrain" as a -0 Limitation. That's because in terms of cost versus points of defense, Entangle sucks compared to other powers (unless the DEF is really high, in which case the stacking effects can make it very effective).

 

The other caveat is, I haven't worked out the balance issues if you're using it to give defenses to other characters. I'd have to stack it against similar constructs using UBO.

 

-AA

[Farkling]

Um, we have something to simulate the "chipping away effect" on defenses in the rules...see Ablative under Defense Powers on page 77. It requires no more GM permission than the Entangle...actually, since it's old style Ablation, GM approval would likely be easier to get.

 

Figure out the amount of DEF you want.

 

Buy that Defense as Force Field, "only costs END to activate", "cannot be used without Ablative field"

 

Now, you need to purchase the Ablative Force Field at the same size as follows::

Abalative Force Field (the -5 AP version at the END), with "Only costs END to activate", and for the usual Elemental Control, link the powers together.

 

For the point monger or a different power feel or munchkin NND proofing, you can make the base power (DEF) Armor instead of Force Field...

 

This gives a one shot version playing to DEF (power) + BOD (ablative field) like an Entangle...now, as to putting it back up again...

 

1) A lenient GM will let it just be "recreated" after it falls. For balance in this case, besides the "only costs END to activate" the power should have extra time and/or gestures for start up. Extra Time is a good way to represent "unrestrainable" gestures or incantations in a SuperHero environment.

 

2) A seperate Aid or Heal could be bought to restore the Ablated section of the field...devoting the "attack action" necessary to rebuild the failing dark matter shield...In which case, for balance, I would highly recommend the Aid/Heal be bought with "self only, costs End, Extra Time"

 

The advantage of THIS construct over the Entangle is that this one works against NND attacks and AVLD's...the Entangle version won't even see them...and this one uses existing Defense Power rules. You couldn't abort to erecting the Entangle with a "by the book" GM.

[austenandrews]

Interesting, Farkling. I'd not read that paragraph. It's infinitely better than the Ablative "Activation Roll" rules, which I always thought were useless. It's still not quite the same as Entangle (can't be taken down by one big attack, for instance) but you're right, it would probably be more "GM safe" than using Entangle as a defense. Definitely a good fit for Dust Raven's needs.

 

-AA

[Dust Raven]

Re: Re: Entangle Armor

 

Mmm...

Then It could work.

I agree with JMHammer that it would be an attack action to turn it on. It's how I envisioned the power working anyway, so no problems there.

Farkling, I like your idea, but the mechanics don't quite work out. Your idea is great for starship shields though.

Now that I think of it though, I'll follow along with austinandrews idea of simply applying a "Does Not Restrain -0" Limitation. I'll use this instead of Personal Immunity, so that it can't be used as a very effective attack. I could be used to grant temporary armor to other characters, as well as the character with the power, and could still be used to create barriers.

 

Originally posted by Jeff

It's not quite that strong:

 

"There's no specific rule against it. Whether a GM chooses to allow it, or to allow any particular use of such a power, is another question entirely. I suspect many would consider it unbalancing if the intention is to use it to grant extra defenses to a character."

 

So it's a GM call based on balance. Me, I wouldn't be worried by it, especially when it fits what you're looking for that well and nothing else is going to come all that close.