cyberpsychic

[Bolorhaig]

i am working on a framework more than a build really. a bit dissatisfied (sp?) with the whole ego-powers-vs-machines-with-no-EGO idea, i have been trying to find different ways to reflect cyber-kinesis w/out using EGO powers. preferably these alternatives would be affordable for a normal superheroic character (ie in a 350 pt build).

 

some alternatives i've considered:

1-computer programming purchased as a power was an early choice. add the area radius (selective) and indirect advantages with the no range limitation, and the character can hack into any computer in proximity. problems i've considered here are the time it takes to use computer programming and the possibility that a gm might want the character to have to use TK to actually punch or activate the keys.

2-various forms of images to manipulate the display or a sensory read-out, purchased vs normal sight to scramble monitors and/or video sensors. problems i've considered here are user PER rolls define the effectiveness of the display scrambler and this power isn't really making changes to the actual software just the display on the monitor.

3- clairsentience and/or transform purchased with extra-dimensional advantage. the dimension defined is "cyberspace", allowing the character to "see" into the data on the drive and manipulate it as if it were an object w/physical form. this version could potentially be VERY powerful but also very expensive particularly if you want to use it on more than 1 computer at a time. problems i've considered here focus on the same problems i have w/using EGO powers vs machines w/no EGO: it requires the GM to improv the computer's resistance vs these abilities. at one point in 5th ed rules it suggests 1 BOD per 1 mb data; this seems extrememly unfair to the cyberpsychic. just now in 2009, with actual technology, we could be talking about a computer w/effectively 100 BODY to resist his abilities!

 

so, i'm looking for suggestions on these kinds of powers. as a guideline, what i'm trying to do is duplicate what the EGO powers could do to computer minds WITHOUT using the EGO powers. i'm finding that a good place to begin is re-defining the mechanical status of computer intelligence and data - for example, the idea of the "cyber" dimension.

 

i am open to your ideas and look forward to a productive, constructive discussion. thank you

 

bolorhaig

[braincraft]

Re: cyberpsychic

 

Limited TK is sometimes used to simulate manipulating machinery. I'm not 100% on the legality of putting those advantages on a skill.

 

Maybe a form of Detect with Transmit to interface with computers?

[Bolorhaig]

Re: cyberpsychic

 

i may be off, but i'm pretty sure in 5th ed (revised) it lists "skill" under powers and says they can generally be purchased with all advantages. again, i may be in error there.

 

detect is definitely a great idea for this character. i want him to be able to sense any computer w/in a large radius (i'm thinking something like a couple kilometers even) with discriminatory and analyze on the sense as well.

 

not sure about that use of transmit. does it actually allow 2-way communication? would it allow influence to be exerted across the transmission? seems like that may be getting into tricky territory - not sure i would want someone to think they could buy mental awareness with "transmit" and use it as a kind of mind control.

 

unfortunately, this last thought leads me back to where i don't want to go - an EGO power, namely telepathy in this case for establishing a mental link over distance. bleh, can't seem to get away from them! lol

 

a good start for this discussion, regardless. thanks for ur input, and i of course welcome any further feedback or ideas you have.

 

bolorhaig

[braincraft]

Re: cyberpsychic

 

Transmit wouldn't let you control computers anymore than being able to speak would let you control people; but it would let you use your Computer Programming skill at a distance, like a human modem. It would also let you use any other computer-related skills you might have, which obviates the awkwardness I forsee with advantaged skills.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: cyberpsychic

 

i am working on a framework more than a build really. a bit dissatisfied (sp?) with the whole ego-powers-vs-machines-with-no-EGO idea, i have been trying to find different ways to reflect cyber-kinesis w/out using EGO powers. preferably these alternatives would be affordable for a normal superheroic character (ie in a 350 pt build).

 

some alternatives i've considered:

1-computer programming purchased as a power was an early choice. add the area radius (selective) and indirect advantages with the no range limitation, and the character can hack into any computer in proximity. problems i've considered here are the time it takes to use computer programming and the possibility that a gm might want the character to have to use TK to actually punch or activate the keys.

2-various forms of images to manipulate the display or a sensory read-out, purchased vs normal sight to scramble monitors and/or video sensors. problems i've considered here are user PER rolls define the effectiveness of the display scrambler and this power isn't really making changes to the actual software just the display on the monitor.

3- clairsentience and/or transform purchased with extra-dimensional advantage. the dimension defined is "cyberspace", allowing the character to "see" into the data on the drive and manipulate it as if it were an object w/physical form. this version could potentially be VERY powerful but also very expensive particularly if you want to use it on more than 1 computer at a time. problems i've considered here focus on the same problems i have w/using EGO powers vs machines w/no EGO: it requires the GM to improv the computer's resistance vs these abilities. at one point in 5th ed rules it suggests 1 BOD per 1 mb data; this seems extrememly unfair to the cyberpsychic. just now in 2009, with actual technology, we could be talking about a computer w/effectively 100 BODY to resist his abilities!

 

so, i'm looking for suggestions on these kinds of powers. as a guideline, what i'm trying to do is duplicate what the EGO powers could do to computer minds WITHOUT using the EGO powers. i'm finding that a good place to begin is re-defining the mechanical status of computer intelligence and data - for example, the idea of the "cyber" dimension.

 

i am open to your ideas and look forward to a productive, constructive discussion. thank you

 

bolorhaig

 

I’m kind of confused as to why using regular Mental Powers is an issue, regardless of the lack of EGO issue. All you have to do is use the Computers INT instead of EGO (which is suggested in 5er, no improvising by the GM needed) and encrypted data or security programs protecting a system can increase the level of success you need when rolling “damage” just like getting memories or more than just surface thoughts requires you to get +X EGO to be effective. With Mind Control, Telepathy, Mind Scan, and Mind Link already built it seems like we’re trying to reinvent the wheel doing it another way. Is there a specific reason you don’t want to use the prebuilt Mental Powers? That might help me understand your point of view and how to help with a power build.

[Bolorhaig]

Re: cyberpsychic

 

Transmit wouldn't let you control computers anymore than being able to speak would let you control people; but it would let you use your Computer Programming skill at a distance' date=' like a human modem. It would also let you use any other computer-related skills you might have, which obviates the awkwardness I forsee with advantaged skills.[/quote']

 

to my understanding, transmit is specifically intended for sharing information rather than making contact. mechanically speaking, computer programming doesn't actually require you to have any special attachment to the computer in question other than access to it and the skill. i was thinking that purchasing the skill with the "usable at range" advantage would cover the necessity of connection.

that said, i appreciate what i'm going to call the 'cleanliness' of your idea - the character has an overt connective power, regardless of its intent, and does not have to rely on anything implied by advantages. though i will disagree with the implication that advantaged skills must necessarily generate awkwardness, we seem to agree that some articulated form of attachment to the target computers would be best. this was one of the reasons i considered a TK to cover the same AoE as the computer programming, to establish a connection.

though it adds to his cost and perhaps may not be necessary for the advantaged skill, i do see a value in this idea.

 

bolorhaig

[Bolorhaig]

Re: cyberpsychic

 

I’m kind of confused as to why using regular Mental Powers is an issue' date=' regardless of the lack of EGO issue. All you have to do is use the Computers INT instead of EGO (which is suggested in 5er, no improvising by the GM needed) and encrypted data or security programs protecting a system can increase the level of success you need when rolling “damage” just like getting memories or more than just surface thoughts requires you to get +X EGO to be effective. With Mind Control, Telepathy, Mind Scan, and Mind Link already built it seems like we’re trying to reinvent the wheel doing it another way. Is there a specific reason you don’t want to use the prebuilt Mental Powers? That might help me understand your point of view and how to help with a power build.[/quote']

 

my concern answering this comment is the danger of DEBATING the relative merits of EGO powers vs alternate ideas here. i offer the following in the spirit of sharing my motivation for the purpose of guiding future suggestions and ask that any actual argument i invite be saved for another thread. my thinking is this: allowing the use of EGO powers on a non-reasoning, non-intuitive target that lacks either subconscious or true self-initiative creates, in my mind, just as many problems as it solves. i acknowledge that some players may consider the EGO powers sufficient to this task and in no way intend to suggest any defficiency in their judgement. the framework created by these powers, however, does not satisfy my sensibility, and so i continue to welcome productive and constructive discussion regarding alternate powers that may be used to achieve the same ends.

 

thank you again

 

bolorhaig

[bigbywolfe]

Re: cyberpsychic

 

I don't want to start an argument, so this is the last I'll say on it. Any power can be an “EGO Power” because any power can have “based on EOCV”. Likewise, all Mental Powers can be “physical” by using “based on CON”. I just think you are letting semantics or titles get in the way of using, if not the best power, by far the easiest, since the “Mental” Powers are all written up for you already.

 

Anyway, I’ll try to come up with some alternatives for you, though I’m sure some more experienced Herofiles will beat me to the punch.

[Bolorhaig]

Re: cyberpsychic

 

just an update to my own thread

 

the computer programming idea, which remains my best alternative so far IMO, also remains problematic due to the time required to use the skill. i could get a bunch of xtra SPD limited only for using the computer programming, but that still limits the character to more or less the speed of a VERY fast typist in performing the skill. there are suggested skill penalties for rushing a computer programming check, and one solution to that would be simply purchase enough computer programming skill-power to make those deductions negligible (<-sp?).

 

one alternative that works much more smoothly is clairsentience, extra-dimensional, with the dimension defined as 'computer memory/cyberspace'. combined with (possibly a LOT of) speed reading, this could allow the character to read data right off a drive with virtual impunity.

 

bolorhaig

[Ice9]

Re: cyberpsychic

 

If you went with the Detect option above, and got both the Rapid and Transmit adders, that could potentially allow you to transmit at the rapid speed. And since Rapid can go as high as necessary, you could use that to program/hack the computer in a very short amount of time - maybe even a single phase.

[Bolorhaig]

Re: cyberpsychic

 

that is a great idea.

 

is that based on the assumption that the gm is going to allow the sense-based adds, Transmit and particularly Rapid, to apply to the use of the advantaged Computer Programming skill? i can see some problems w/a broad interpretation there, but it's a great direction to drift in w/this build and see where it takes me.

 

bolorhaig

[bubba smith]

Re: cyberpsychic

 

try reading the cybermancy pacage deal fromurban fantasy HERO maybe that'll give you an idea

[Utech]

Re: cyberpsychic

 

Try Summon Automatons and/or Vehicles, Expanded Class (any machine), Being Must Inhabit Locale.

 

To remove the EGO problem, rule that summoned beings are controlled by defeating it in a Skill Versus Skill Contest using Computer Programming (or similar) or pick up Amiable at some level.

 

The SFX of this Power is that your character controls machines in the area up to a certain limit. Machines can be built as automatons (though you'll have to pre-build a bunch of them to simulate various things or play fast and loose with GMs permission) and forced to do as you command.

[Bolorhaig]

Re: cyberpsychic

 

try reading the cybermancy pacage deal fromurban fantasy HERO maybe that'll give you an idea

 

i'd love to see any salient reference material. thnx for ur suggestion bubba.

 

however, i'm having trouble finding the material u've referenced. i thought i owned everything hero's ever produced just about, and i don't have a book called 'urban fantasy hero'. there's obviously nothing like cybermancy in 'fantasy hero'. i do have a lot of urban hero materials, and if there's something in one of these u think might help would u mind offering a specific book/page? thnx

 

bolorhaig

[The_Patriot]

Re: cyberpsychic

 

i'd love to see any salient reference material. thnx for ur suggestion bubba.

 

however, i'm having trouble finding the material u've referenced. i thought i owned everything hero's ever produced just about, and i don't have a book called 'urban fantasy hero'. there's obviously nothing like cybermancy in 'fantasy hero'. i do have a lot of urban hero materials, and if there's something in one of these u think might help would u mind offering a specific book/page? thnx

 

bolorhaig

 

Urban Fantasy Hero is a relatively new book that you can buy in the store.

[bubba smith]

Re: cyberpsychic

 

It came out a couple of months ago you're welcom

[Bolorhaig]

Re: cyberpsychic

 

i will definitely check out that resource. thnx again

 

so far, the most solid version of what i want that i've encountered is probably transformation attack.

 

it's used in some champs sources as a form of mind control, ie transform 'human' into 'human under my control', and i'm thinking it could work the same way for computers.

 

it avoids an attack vs EGO, which is one of things i'm trying to steer away from here, and has an established defense that is actually fairly relevant to the special effect i want for this write-up.

 

anyway, just an update really. i'm still looking.

 

bolorhaig

[Bolorhaig]

i think i found it

 

recently was pointed toward a possible solution by another player, who suggested looking at transform as a way to take control of computers.

 

i went hog-wild w/that idea, and i think i may have found the power set i've been looking for.

 

w/out many of the finer details...

 

1- transform 'computers or computerized devices into same, but now under PC control' (major), AoE radius (quite large), no range, persistent, indirect, with several other adds

here the PC can (eventually) take control of nearly any computer or computerized device (like a gun or car w/a computer chip in it) just by being near it. this DOES put a lot of pressure on the gm to decide how much BODY a computer has (book suggests 1 for objects undefined in BODY score) and to decide how much each computer can do. the upswing - it puts the computers squarely in the PC's control w/out using a mental power. YES, i realize that using transform as a kind of mind control is a form of mental power according to ultimate mentalist, but again that discussion has mostly to do with targets possessing an EGO score so i tend to discount it.

 

2- clairsentience (unusual sense group for the detect below) for "reading" digital data and/or memory, dimensional (cyberspace dimension), rapid (quite a lot), up to 4 simultaneous points of view (initially, this will be purchased up with exp), and others

here the PC can read data off any computer in range of the clairsentience and quickly sift through that data for target info. this seems to have no downside IMO, and again the upside is that there's no EGO contest w/the computer.

 

3- detect computer and/or computerized device, rapid (again, quite a lot), transmit (so PC can send his instructions; transmit reads "can send the same kind of information he can detect"), discriminate, analyze, concealment for the transmit, and others

here the PC can sense any computer-chip containing device around him and gain a lot of detailed info on it: capacities, connections, etc etc. again, no EGO contest so i'm happy there, and no fuzzy rulings necessary for this alternate power.

 

i'm working on fitting all 3 into an EC (cost end limit for the detect), and it's coming out really well so far.

 

thnx to all who threw in their 2 (or 3) cents on this thread. i'm considering it closed.

 

take care

 

bolorhaig