The sound of silence

[Sean Waters]

So, I read that new page from 6e on invisibility and I was thinking: what does invisibility do sound DO?

 

I mean I can walk pretty quietly not, you know, humming or creaking too much. What tends to give me away is what I step on: gravel crunches, twigs snap.

 

Does invisibility to sound mask that sort of 'environmental reaction'?

 

If so, how far does it extend? If I walk across a nightingale floor do the boards not creak? If I stumble into a trip wire attached to a bell, is it not heard?

 

How do you rule this one?

[prestidigitator]

Re: The sound of silence

 

I do silence most environmental effects. Mostly things that are a direct result of the character's movement (examples: footsteps on pretty much anything, opening a simple door, flapping wings). In that regard sometimes I find it useful to think about the Power as a "super-skill" for Stealth (though I hesitate to call it a full replacement; I am very Skill-centric; even, to some degree, in superheroic games).

 

Things that are triggered by the character's actions but which are more the result of another force or power (examples: gravity taking over after the character accidentally topples a stack of spears, the character triggering a booby trap or a Triggered Power) I treat as an altogether different matter, and are rarely covered by unmodified Invisibility except in very specific circumstances that must be consistent with the power's SFX. Sometimes I allow a small Area of Effect to help cover these phenomena, but I tend to be careful there as that wanders a little into uncertain territory where the power might overlap with Darkness....

 

It comes up less often, but Invisibility to Hearing (or the Hearing Group) can also, of course, hide the character from hearing-based Enhanced Senses (hearing strong enough to make out heartbeats and breathing, sonar, hearing-based detects, etc.). Sometimes if the SFX don't seem appropriate I might make a judgement call or ask a player's justification for the Power covering a particular circumstance ("How do you see your un-Limited stealth sneakers masking the sound of your breathing, exactly? Would you like to describe how that works, or update the power with a new Limitation, or...?").

[Doc Democracy]

Re: The sound of silence

 

So, I read that new page from 6e on invisibility and I was thinking: what does invisibility do sound DO?

 

I mean I can walk pretty quietly not, you know, humming or creaking too much. What tends to give me away is what I step on: gravel crunches, twigs snap.

 

Does invisibility to sound mask that sort of 'environmental reaction'?

 

If so, how far does it extend? If I walk across a nightingale floor do the boards not creak? If I stumble into a trip wire attached to a bell, is it not heard?

 

How do you rule this one?

 

I wouldn't say that it made you silent, it means that you are invisible to sound - the sound does not interact with you. I would be inclined to put this down to sonar not 'seeing' you and noise not interacting with you physically - so a good defence for NND attacks based on sound as well.

 

I would rule that you can hear and so are still susceptible to sound flashes.

 

It's a niche product

 

 

Doc

[secretID]

Re: The sound of silence

 

I haven't had to rule on it yet, but your trip wire example is the only one that's a close call for me. I guess that adds up to it being a small AoE, or the way prestigitator described it. That's very different than the way I do sight invis., of course, but it wouldn't be worth much otherwise.

 

Interesting question.

[Manic Typist]

Re: The sound of silence

 

I wouldn't say that it made you silent' date=' it means that you are invisible to sound - the sound does not interact with you. [/quote']

 

Invisibility to Sight Group means you cannot be seen. Thus, I think Invisibility to Sound (Group?) means you cannot be heard, which interestingly includes sonar (I like that touch).

 

Sean, you pretty much nailed it in your OP in my opinion.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: The sound of silence

 

Invisibility to Sight Group means you cannot be seen. Thus, I think Invisibility to Sound (Group?) means you cannot be heard, which interestingly includes sonar (I like that touch).

 

Sean, you pretty much nailed it in your OP in my opinion.

 

Invisibility to sight means you cannot be detected by light (seen) - your physical being does not interact with light or reflect it. If you emit a light (for example, by shining a light) then that light is seen. You can also see when invisible, so your senses are not included.

 

Invisibility to sound means you cannot be detected by sound (no equivalent that I know of) - your physical being does not interact with sound or reflect it. If you emit a sound (for example shouting or breaking a twig) then that sound is heard. You can also hear when invisible to sound, so your senses are not included.

 

 

Doc

[prestidigitator]

Re: The sound of silence

 

Invisibility to Sight Group means you cannot be seen. Thus' date=' I think Invisibility to Sound (Group?) means you cannot be heard, which interestingly includes sonar (I like that touch).[/quote']

 

Yeah, I agree. Regardless of the physics of sound or light or whatever, it is the game effect that is important. Invisibility to sound means people can't hear you. Whether it is because sound passes right through you (except for your ears), or everyone is mentally tricked into ignoring the sound you make, or whatever, the key is the game effect.

[Kenn]

Re: The sound of silence

 

How to Maintain a Music Career by Art Garfunkle

[Doc Democracy]

Re: The sound of silence

 

Yeah' date=' I agree. Regardless of the physics of sound or light or whatever, it is the game effect that is important. Invisibility to sound means people can't hear you. Whether it is because sound passes right through you (except for your ears), or everyone is mentally tricked into ignoring the sound you make, or whatever, the key is the game effect.[/quote']

 

surely people not being able to hear you would be darkness to sound?

 

 

Doc

[Manic Typist]

Re: The sound of silence

 

Invisibility to sight means you cannot be detected by light (seen) - your physical being does not interact with light or reflect it.

 

No, it means you cannot be seen. Seriously. That's it. Everything else is SFX and an in-game explanation. Fluff and Coolness. It's magic, it's science, it's mind control, and more! Like Prest said.

 

Darkness to sound- No one can hear ANYTHING.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: The sound of silence

 

No, it means you cannot be seen. Seriously. That's it. Everything else is SFX and an in-game explanation. Fluff and Coolness. It's magic, it's science, it's mind control, and more! Like Prest said.

 

Darkness to sound- No one can hear ANYTHING.

 

Like I said, I'm not convinced that the mechanic for not being seen is the same as the mechanic for not being heard. One is passive and the other is active....

[Manic Typist]

Re: The sound of silence

 

Like I said' date=' I'm not convinced that the mechanic for not being seen is the same as the mechanic for not being heard. One is passive and the other is active....[/quote']

 

 

Perhaps, perhaps not. Regardless, that has no bearing upon the game mechanics, since you're talking about real world physics.

[prestidigitator]

Re: The sound of silence

 

surely people not being able to hear you would be darkness to sound?

 

Darkness to sound will do it too, if you are in the area of the Darkness. Just like being in a Sight Group Darkness keeps you from being seen. Incidentally it keeps people from hearing anything else in the area of the Darkness, and keeps sound from passing through the area. Unlike Invisibility, you deafen yourself also with such a Darkness (unless, perhaps, you have Personal Immunity on it?).

[Roth]

Re: The sound of silence

 

Darkness to sound will do it too' date=' if you are in the area of the Darkness. Just like being in a Sight Group Darkness keeps you from being seen. Incidentally it keeps people from hearing anything [i']else[/i] in the area of the Darkness, and keeps sound from passing through the area. Unlike Invisibility, you deafen yourself also with such a Darkness (unless, perhaps, you have Personal Immunity on it?).

 

Though I have to ask myself (and thus anyone reading) What happens when you put IPE on Darkness.. Do you have a bunch of people in the darkness field unable to see, hear, what ever, but every body outside the darkness field able to some how acknowledge your existence?

 

Or do you have what is effectively an area affected by the invisibility, you go into it, disappear from others sight, you can not see out and all they see is a big blank spot in the surrounding terrain? Or do they see the area in and around the darkness field, but with out seeing the target in it.

 

And yes I realize I've just run off on a tangent

[prestidigitator]

Re: The sound of silence

 

Actually you create a gaping hole and the rest of the universe implodes into it, leaving (somehow) only a few blind folks in an island of relative peace, at least until the power switches off. Or something. I mean, you really want to know?

 

Seriously, I can't see putting IPE on a Darkness that affects the sense it is invisible to. I'm of the opinion that the sense-affecting powers should themselves define how "visible" they are, and the normal Power visibility rules should be ignored. If you really want your Sight Group Darkness to emit a loud annoying whining sound or something, I'd probably give you a Limitation for it (Visible, or Noisy). If you wanted it to be particularly visible beyond the big black (or whatever) nothingness (like maybe having flashy crackly purple lightning dancing around it), I'd probably also allow a Limitation (Noisy?).

[Sean Waters]

Re: The sound of silence

 

Though I have to ask myself (and thus anyone reading) What happens when you put IPE on Darkness.. Do you have a bunch of people in the darkness field unable to see, hear, what ever, but every body outside the darkness field able to some how acknowledge your existence?

 

Or do you have what is effectively an area affected by the invisibility, you go into it, disappear from others sight, you can not see out and all they see is a big blank spot in the surrounding terrain? Or do they see the area in and around the darkness field, but with out seeing the target in it.

 

And yes I realize I've just run off on a tangent

 

 

IPE means that the power is not visible but still works normally. Someone in a darkness (to sight) field can not see or be seen whether it is IPE or not but it will not be obvious (except at the transition point) that there is a power in operation.

 

Not easy to rule on but I would probably say that an area affected by an IPE darkness field either is completely invisible (the scenery either side sort of scrunches up) or simply that the scenery is visible but no one inside it is visible (and anyone in the field areas is effectviely blind).

 

Actually I'd get the player to tell me the effect they want and simply say yes or no: I only have so many brain cells, so probably best not to use too many on this

[Manic Typist]

Re: The sound of silence

 

Though I have to ask myself (and thus anyone reading) What happens when you put IPE on Darkness.. Do you have a bunch of people in the darkness field unable to see, hear, what ever, but every body outside the darkness field able to some how acknowledge your existence?

 

 

People can see into a Darkness vs. Sound field just find.

 

Great example of a huge Darkness vs. Sound: the episode of Buffy entitled Hush. I don't recalll if Darkness costs END off the top of my head (I assume it does), but if it does then it's also a great example of IPE- the box is the source of the power but it looks like an ordinary little box. If the characters hadn't been told to attack it, they never would have, likely.

[prestidigitator]

Re: The sound of silence

 

People can see into a Darkness vs. Sound field just find.

 

I think the post you quoted snuck in a slightly off-topic meander back into "normal" (Sight Group) Darkness.

[Sean Waters]

Re: The sound of silence

 

I think the post you quoted snuck in a slightly off-topic meander back into "normal" (Sight Group) Darkness.

 

 

Interestingly a 'darkness to sound' field should muffle sounds from the other side of the field: sound can not pass through it, whereas with IPE you would hear stuff on the other side fine but nothing from inside the field (of course if you are in the field you hear nothing int he field OR outside it) - the effect is that you would not know the field is there if you did not stumble into it.

 

It is far harder to 'visualise' an IPE Darkness to Sight field. Pretty much however you define it it will be obvious that there is 'something' there. Drawing a parallel though, you shoudl see nothing that is inside the field - it would be as if it were not there, but you should be able to see through it to the other side without a problem.

[Manic Typist]

Re: The sound of silence

 

Interestingly a 'darkness to sound' field should muffle sounds from the other side of the field: sound can not pass through it' date=' whereas with IPE you would hear stuff on the other side fine but nothing from inside the field (of course if you are in the field you hear nothing int he field OR outside it) - the effect is that you would not know the field is there if you did not stumble into it.[/quote']

 

At first I was wondering where you were going with this, but as I read.... brillant!

 

It is far harder to 'visualise' an IPE Darkness to Sight field. Pretty much however you define it it will be obvious that there is 'something' there. Drawing a parallel though, you shoudl see nothing that is inside the field - it would be as if it were not there, but you should be able to see through it to the other side without a problem.

 

Well, Darkness is different from Invisibility. So, my Darkness field could be generated by a ring that gives off a big glow, etc. Doesn't matter if I'm IN the Darkness... but if outside, it does. Unless of course I have IPE. What do you think?

[prestidigitator]

Re: The sound of silence

 

Interestingly a 'darkness to sound' field should muffle sounds from the other side of the field: sound can not pass through it, whereas with IPE you would hear stuff on the other side fine but nothing from inside the field (of course if you are in the field you hear nothing int he field OR outside it) - the effect is that you would not know the field is there if you did not stumble into it.

 

It is far harder to 'visualise' an IPE Darkness to Sight field. Pretty much however you define it it will be obvious that there is 'something' there. Drawing a parallel though, you shoudl see nothing that is inside the field - it would be as if it were not there, but you should be able to see through it to the other side without a problem.

 

Maybe. But note that the IPE might actually cost you quite a bit of benefit if it were handled like that. Placing Darkness in the middle of the hallway to keep people from seeing down it can be quite useful. Or even using it tactfully in a battle without a hallway or anything. I might change IPE to a +0 Advantage if it had the effect you suggest.