New Mechanic: Movement

[schir1964]

Movement (Standard / Constant/ Costs Endurance)

Movement allows the character to travel from one location to another.

 

Movement Rate

Movement Rate is the maximum straight line distance the character can travel in one second. This does not mean that the character travels through that distance (see Movement Type).

Movement Rate Cost: 1 Point Per 1 Meter

 

Movement Type

Movement Type represents the boundaries of the movement being used. The player should reason from SFX to determine which Movement Type best represents in what manner the character travels. Movement Type is applied as an Modifier to the character's Movement. The player can purchase Movement multiple times to reflect separate and various ways the character can travel.

• 0 Dimensional Movement (+2): Character vanishes at one location only to immediately appear at another location. None of the distance between the two points is traversed or perceived by the character during travel.
  
• 1 Dimensional Movement (-1): Character travels along a predefined path and may not deviate from it but may stop at any point along that path. The character may travel on any path that already exists, furthermore, the character may only switch paths of travel where they intersect.
  
• 2 Dimensional Movement (+0): Character travels on a predefined surface and may travel anywhere on that surface. It is possible to change from one surface to another identical surface where they intersect.
  
• 3 Dimensional Movement (Varies): Character travels within a predefined space and may travel anywhere within that space.
  Frequency/Usefulness
  The modifier value depends on the frequency/usefulness of the movement type specified within the campaign.
  
  • Rarely (-1/2): This movement type will rarely be needed or useful in the campaign.
    
  • Occasionally (+1/2): This movement type will occasionally be needed or useful in the campaign.
    
  • Routinely (+1): This movement type will routinely be needed or useful in the campaign.
    
  • Frequently (+2): This movement type will frequently be needed or useful in the campaign.
    

  [*]4 Dimensional Movement (+1): Character travels from one location to another location by traveling in 'non-space' that exists outside of normal space (yet within the same space). While in 'non-space' the character interacts normally with everything else that is in 'non-space'. However, the character does not interact with anything that is in normal space nor is even able to perceive normal space.

 

Modifiers

External Forces (-1/4 to -2): Movement is affected by external forces (gravity, currents, temperature).

Float Only (-1): Character can simply float (the ability to remain relatively stationary in spite of external forces). The movement rate purchased is only used to counter any external movement imposed on the character.

Multi-Mode (+1/4): An additional a mode of movement may be applied to the same Movement Rate.

 

Reduced Rate Of Travel

[*](-1/4): Movement Rate is reduced by at least 20% of the total movement rate.

[*](-1/2): Movement Rate is reduced by at least 30% of the total movement rate.

[*](-3/4): Movement Rate is reduced by at least 40% of the total movement rate.

[*](-1): Movement Rate is reduced by at least 50% of the total movement rate.

[*](-1 1/4): Movement Rate is reduced by at least 60% of the total movement rate.

[*](-1 1/2): Movement Rate is reduced by at least 70% of the total movement rate.

[*](-1 3/4): Movement Rate is reduced by at least 80% of the total movement rate.

[*](-2): Movement Rate is reduced by at least 90% of total movement rate.

 

Traveling While Blind

Traveling while blind regardless of Movement Type is dangerous. If a character hits an obstacle/obstruction during travel while blind, even at the destination location, they will suffer damage. There are several advantages that allow for various levels of safety for blind travel.

 

Crash Damage (1 Damage Class Per Second Of Continuous Travel): Crash damage can be Normal or Killing. Crash damage is applied against defenses normally, however, knockback Dice are tripled for determining Knockback.

 

Merged Damage (Varies): All characters using 0 Dimensional Travel will not suffer any Crash Damage due to nature of the movement type, however, the character has merged with the obstacle at the destination and suffers Merged Damage when merging or un-merging. Thus, the damage the character suffers varies based on the character's state/density vs the obstacle's state/density. Merged Damage is Killing Damage. Merged Damage bypasses all defenses.

Character/Obstacle States

• Diffuse:
  Character/Obstacle is diffuse (gaseous/fluid) such that they merge easily.
  
  
• Dense:
  Character/Obstacle is dense (solid/rigid) such that they do not merge easily.
  
  

Merged Damage

Character State / Obstacle State

• Diffuse / Diffuse:
  Merged Damage (1 Damage Class).
  
  
• Dense / Diffuse:
  Merged Damage (2 Damage Classes).
  
  
• Diffuse / Dense:
  Merged Damage (3 Damage Classes).
  
  
• Denser / Dense:
  Merged Damage (6 Damage Classes).
  
  
• Dense / Dense:
  Merged Damage (9 Damage Classes).
  
  
• Dense / Denser:
  Merged Damage (12 Damage Classes).
  
  

 

My attempt at creating a non-sfx based movement mechanic.

 

Thoughts?

 

- Christopher Mullins

[Klaus Mogensen]

Re: New Mechanic: Movement

 

I like the general idea, but there should be modifiers for how common the medium of travel is. For instance, Flight and Swimming are both 3-dimensional, but Flight generally has far wider use.

 

"Predefined space" is a bit vague. Will general Flight allow you to travel both in air and in vacuum, or should these be bought as separate 'spaces'? Will different planets count as different 'spaces'?

 

I would like to see Movement as a single power where you pay full cost for the most versatile mode and then can add other modes very cheaply.

 

For instance, if you have Flight, is should only cost a few points (perhaps a 5-point adder) to add Running or Swimming at the same speed.

 

You can do something similar now with Multipower, but that has the odd result that you can swim twice as fast as you can fly, which seems counter-intuitive. (I know, I don't have to buy the Swim slot at full power, but it seems a waste not to).

 

- Klaus

[schir1964]

Re: New Mechanic: Movement

 

I like the general idea' date=' but there should be modifiers for how common the medium of travel is. For instance, Flight and Swimming are both 3-dimensional, but Flight generally has far wider use.[/quote']

Yes, I am working on that. Straight 3 Dimensional Movement grants the character the equivalent of the current system's movement by default:

 

• Flight
  
• Swimming
  
• Space Travel
  
• Tunneling
  

 

All of which are aspects of 3 Dimensional travel.

 

..."Predefined space" is a bit vague. Will general Flight allow you to travel both in air and in vacuum' date=' or should these be bought as separate 'spaces'? Will different planets count as different 'spaces'?[/quote']

Like above, I'm still trying to figure out how to handle this appropriately to maintain a balance of cost vs value.

 

I would like to see Movement as a single power where you pay full cost for the most versatile mode and then can add other modes very cheaply.

I generally prefer the method of building up to what you need. Your method would make things difficult for those GMs that use Active Point caps in their campaigns as guidelines since it would result in the more useful/uncommon modes of travel granting the same travel distance in comparison to other less useful/common modes of travel.

 

However, my current construct does lend itself to that method if one desired. You would just increase the cost of Movement Rate and change the definition of Movement Type from being an advantage to being a limitation of appropriate value.

 

For instance' date=' if you have Flight, is should only cost a few points (perhaps a 5-point adder) to add Running or Swimming at the same speed.[/quote']

Unnecessary since Flight would automatically grant you those types anyway. If one has innate Flight (such as Superman), there is nothing stopping them from flying Nap Of Earth or through Liquid at the same rate of travel.

 

You've help give me focus on what needs to be addressed and a couple of ways of addressing it. Thanks.

 

- Christopher Mullins

[phookz]

Re: New Mechanic: Movement

 

Interesting idea, but I think this is a solution looking for a problem.

[Sean Waters]

Re: New Mechanic: Movement

 

I wouldn't say that; movement is almost a consistent mechanic: this is an attempt to unify the principles.

 

I do have a couple of comments though:

 

Flight: 1 point (per metre) movement, Frequently (+5): This movement type will frequently be needed or useful in the campaign = 6 points per metre of flight.

 

That's looking expensive to me, even if you halve the cost with '1/2 movement up because of gravity' (but then you'd have to increase the cost with 'double movement down because of gravity).

 

It also does not address movement damage: either you don't get velocity based damage adds or you need to take them away for teleport (which requires a modifier).

 

You also have the problem with movement unification that you have to pick a 'base' form of movement. Christopher solves this in an interesting fashion: buying metres of movement doesn't allow you to move - you need an advantage to do that (defining how many dimensions you move in). I like that but can see it causing problems.

[schir1964]

Re: New Mechanic: Movement

 

Interesting idea' date=' but I think this is a solution looking for a problem.[/quote']

I never suggested there was a problem with the current mechanics.

 

This is just one attempt to show how movement could be handled similarly to other mechanics that do not have SFX hardwired into the mechanic. It also categorizes movement to its basic concept.

 

Most gamers like having the SFX hardwired into the current movement mechanics. Some might prefer a more consistent approach.

 

- Christopher Mullins

[schir1964]

Re: New Mechanic: Movement

 

Flight: 1 point (per metre) movement' date=' [b']Frequently (+5):[/b] This movement type will frequently be needed or useful in the campaign = 6 points per metre of flight.

Actually, I would put Flight under Routinely (+4) which makes it 5 Points per meter. Oh wait.... I see what you are saying. It would need to be 5 Points Per 2 Meters. I need to adjust the values to account for that.

 

That's looking expensive to me' date=' even if you halve the cost with '1/2 movement up because of gravity' (but then you'd have to increase the cost with 'double movement down because of gravity).[/quote']

Actually it would just be a single limitation: External Forces (Gravity). What you describe above would simply cancel each other out for no value, but I think gravity infers an overall penalty.

 

It also does not address movement damage: either you don't get velocity based damage adds or you need to take them away for teleport (which requires a modifier).

Yes, I'm still working on that. I'm open to any suggestions.

 

You also have the problem with movement unification that you have to pick a 'base' form of movement. Christopher solves this in an interesting fashion: buying metres of movement doesn't allow you to move - you need an advantage to do that (defining how many dimensions you move in). I like that but can see it causing problems.

What problems do you see it causing? (Probably something I"m overlooking)

 

- Christopher Mullins

[CourtFool]

Re: New Mechanic: Movement

 

Can we make Driving and Piloting = Movement, OAF Bulky now?

[schir1964]

Re: New Mechanic: Movement

 

The movement would purchased for the Vehicle. Driving/Piloting a vehicle are skills.

 

- Christopher Mullins

[GamePhil]

Re: New Mechanic: Movement

 

I think the costs are too high, you might consider having some of the more rarely useful Movement Powers be Limitations rather than Advantages, perhaps start with 2-Dimensional Movement as +0 then move up and down from there. Likewise, 3D Movement that is Rarely Useful should be +0 at most, and possibly a Limitation.

 

I tried something similar to this once, with two differences: I based Movement on Damage and made it per Turn rather than per Second. So, I had it be 5 points per 12" (24m in 6E) of Movement which would do 1d6 Damage with a Move Through, or 1/2d6 with a Move By. Then divide that Movement by your SPD to find per phase movement. This meant that Move Through damage was closer to Knockback and Falling Damage (every 1"/Segment you move does 1d6 of damage). Then I applied Advantages and Limitations to that to get specific forms of movement, so you'd take Advantages for Teleport to work as it does and Limitations for it to be Instant and not do velocity based damage (or something like that).

[schir1964]

Re: New Mechanic: Movement

 

...I tried something similar to this once' date=' with two differences: I based Movement on Damage and made it per Turn rather than per Phase...[/quote']

This is really weird. My construct above is Meters Per Second. I had that text in there originally, but through different edits it got erased. I'll put it back. Oh wait... it still is there... I just moved it somewhere else.

 

I'll look over you damage and see how I might incorporate it into the construct.

 

- Christopher Mullins

[GamePhil]

Re: New Mechanic: Movement

 

This is really weird. My construct above is Meters Per Second. I had that text in there originally, but through different edits it got erased. I'll put it back. Oh wait... it still is there... I just moved it somewhere else.

 

I'll look over you damage and see how I might incorporate it into the construct.

 

- Christopher Mullins

 

Sorry, mis-type, I meant second. Basically the same, the main difference being the cost being based around the Damage Classes rather than the rate of movement.

[Sean Waters]

Re: New Mechanic: Movement

 

Damage

 

Assuming STR = 5 pointsand HtH damage is still -1/2 then +1DC of damage = 3 points, as a starting point.

 

That means that, at most, 3 points of movement should yield +1DC: probably it ought to be more - after all movement provides benefits other than causing damage. Even when cancelled (to an extent) with 'only when moving' and 'may cause yourself harm (side effects)' for move throughs, I'd still say that it should be at least 6 points per +1 DC...which, coincidentally is what +1 DC 'costs' in the current regime: v/3 = +1d6 per 6 points in movement.

 

Why movement without movement type is a problem (potentially)

 

Working ont hat principle you could buy (for instance) 20 metres of movement but only apply a 'movement type' advantage to part of it: you would be moving slowly but doing collateral aeffects as if you were moving faster.

 

At present 1m of movement = 1 point. Your actual velocity is dependent on SPD.

 

Basing movement on actual velocity means you need rules for dividing your move by phases - or you need to keep moving on segments when you do not have an action. That can be problematic.

 

 

To get the cost of (say) flight the same or similar to the current cost you need to decide what an 'average' SPD is. I do not feel that the current 'basic' cost of movement (2m=2points) is too far out.

 

Also - and I appreciate the overall structure, but... - making a movement that is only rarely useful a +1 advantage feels wrong

[prestidigitator]

Re: New Mechanic: Movement

 

I think it's a good idea, but trying to use Modifiers this extensively tends to make cost go absolutely crazy in one way or another very quickly. They just make the formula too unstable. I like to see the basic use of a power built without Modifiers, then have Modifiers come in when there's a significant change from the very basic use.

[Sean Waters]

Re: New Mechanic: Movement

 

Movement -as is- uses a sort of compound modifier: some combination of:

 

Adds damage

Does not cross intervening space

No turn Mode

Movement in the third dimension

Constant

 

To create the major movement modes, then limits them to create gliding and swimming and swinging.

 

So, Running has no turn mode, adds damage

 

Teleport does not cross intervening space and can move in the third dimension

 

Flight adds damage, moves in the third dimension and is constant (but you get increased KB, a limitation)

 

...and so on. They all cost the same.

 

This sort of works the same way but broken down to components. I like the idea, but as Pres mentions, in practice it may be somewhat unstable.

[GamePhil]

Re: New Mechanic: Movement

 

Damage

 

Assuming STR = 5 pointsand HtH damage is still -1/2 then +1DC of damage = 3 points, as a starting point.

 

That means that, at most, 3 points of movement should yield +1DC: probably it ought to be more - after all movement provides benefits other than causing damage. Even when cancelled (to an extent) with 'only when moving' and 'may cause yourself harm (side effects)' for move throughs, I'd still say that it should be at least 6 points per +1 DC...which, coincidentally is what +1 DC 'costs' in the current regime: v/3 = +1d6 per 6 points in movement.

 

Not necessarily, since, unlike HA, it provides another ability, Movement, that could be considered the equivalent of Lift for STR.

[CourtFool]

Re: New Mechanic: Movement

 

Driving/Piloting a vehicle are skills.

 

Are they? Or are they just a means to gain access to a specific power suit that is only usable in very specific circumstances?

[ayinde]

Re: New Mechanic: Movement

 

I think you have a great idea hear. Thou I run movement different in my games. I have a house rule in my games that makes all movements (save for teleport) turn based ie you can move x amount of spaces per turn in a strait line if your character has more than the common 2 actions per turn he has more control over his move options he can acetate faster ,turn more often ect. As a result if superman and the flash of my world had a strait race (both having a 60 move rate) in a strait line they would most likely tie but if they had to navigate a course with turns and twists the flash (8 actions per turn)will win hands down against superman (5 actions per turn) conversely the amassing worm hole man who has teleport can move faster then both of them as far as distance goes because teleporting can be used on every turn so his 60 space move x his 4 actions equals 240 spaces covered! In a single turn (to bad there is no velocity) as you might guess teleport cost more in my games.

[schir1964]

Re: New Mechanic: Movement

 

Are they? Or are they just a means to gain access to a specific power suit that is only usable in very specific circumstances?

It depends on the SFX really as to what you are trying to simulate.

 

Example:

Normal Running does not require a skill since the SFX legs allows the character to run by default with no chance of failure (given ideal conditions). If one wanted to have running that had no failure regardless of conditions, that might require purchasing a Skill or Modifier. Or if one were to strap on some stilts and use them for running would require a skill since the running (distance/type) is technically external to the character.

 

The same can be applied to any type of "Externally" available mode of travel. Anyone might be able to use it (given proper knowledge), but to attain a level where there no chance of failure usually requires skill.

 

Now if the external mode of travel is completely self controlled (elevator, train, sky lift) or designed to be a simple extension of the character (bionics, powered armor, leaping shoes) then no skill is needed.

 

Just My Take

 

- Christopher Mullins

[schir1964]

Re: New Mechanic: Movement

 

Why movement without movement type is a problem (potentially)

 

Working on that principle you could buy (for instance) 20 meters of movement but only apply a 'movement type' advantage to part of it: you would be moving slowly but doing collateral effects as if you were moving faster.

Not sure I understand. Where does my construct imply that you can apply the Movement Type to only part of the Movement Rate?

Each Movement Type is considered a discrete thing and is applied to all of the Movement Rate.

 

Is there a SFX you have in mind?

 

At present 1m of movement = 1 point. Your actual velocity is dependent on SPD.

Why?

 

Basing movement on actual velocity means you need rules for dividing your move by phases...

Even so, you would simply do as suggested by GamePhil and take the total distance that can be traveled in a turn and divide it by your Speed. This gives you Movement Rate for a single phase. And you would still have the option of tracking your travel over the segments.

 

If the character is expecting his velocity to be zero at the end of his phase, then they are accelerating the first half of the distance and decelerating the second half of their distance.

 

If the character plans to use non-combat movement, then they need to retain their velocity at the end of their phase and continue accelerating in their next phase.

 

or you need to keep moving on segments when you do not have an action. That can be problematic.

Allowing the player to track their distance per second and modify their movement path is a feature in my opinion. And see it as no more problematic than the current rules where a character can technically hold their full move until the last segment and move the same distance in 1 second as they would in 2 seconds, 3 seconds, 4 seconds, 5 seconds, or even 6 seconds depending on the speed of the character and when they initiate their full move in their phase.

 

But that is just me. I'm sure that most people may not like doing all that tracking.

 

To get the cost of (say) flight the same or similar to the current cost you need to decide what an 'average' SPD is. I do not feel that the current 'basic' cost of movement (2m=2points) is too far out.

Not sure what you mean here. With the current system, if you have two characters with same running movement, yet the first one is Speed 2 and the second one is Speed 6, suddenly the second travels much further in single turn than first one, yet they both will move the exact same distance in the same segment when both do a full move on segment 11.

 

Also - and I appreciate the overall structure' date=' but... - making a movement that is only rarely useful a +1 advantage feels wrong [/quote']

I can't argue with that. (8^D)

 

- Christopher Mullins

[schir1964]

Re: New Mechanic: Movement

 

I think it's a good idea' date=' but trying to use Modifiers this extensively tends to make cost go absolutely crazy in one way or another very quickly. They just make the formula too unstable. I like to see the basic use of a power built without Modifiers, then have Modifiers come in when there's a significant change from the very basic use.[/quote']

Hmmm... this is very good point. After finish fleshing out the final pieces for this construct, I might try again going another route in an attempt to avoid this issue.

 

- Christopher Mullins

[schir1964]

Re: New Mechanic: Movement

 

I think you have a great idea hear. Thou I run movement different in my games. I have a house rule in my games that makes all movements (save for teleport) turn based ie you can move x amount of spaces per turn in a strait line if your character has more than the common 2 actions per turn he has more control over his move options he can acetate faster ' date='turn more often ect. As a result if superman and the flash of my world had a strait race (both having a 60 move rate) in a strait line they would most likely tie but if they had to navigate a course with turns and twists the flash (8 actions per turn)will win hands down against superman (5 actions per turn) conversely the amassing worm hole man who has teleport can move faster then both of them as far as distance goes because teleporting can be used on every turn so his 60 space move x his 4 actions equals 240 spaces covered! In a single turn (to bad there is no velocity) as you might guess teleport cost more in my games.[/quote']

Nice...

 

I might borrow a couple of these concepts for later. (8^D)

 

- Christopher Mullins

[schir1964]

Re: New Mechanic: Movement

 

Pretty much done with the construct.

 

I'll think about trying to do this another way just to see what I can come up with.

 

- Christopher Mullins

[Sean Waters]

Re: New Mechanic: Movement

 

.................

Even so, you would simply do as suggested by GamePhil and take the total distance that can be traveled in a turn and divide it by your Speed. This gives you Movement Rate for a single phase. And you would still have the option of tracking your travel over the segments.

 

...............

 

 

Bear in mid that not every phase is the same number of segments, and so not the same number of seconds: some phases you should travel faster than others: SPD 5, 24 m movement:

 

Phase 3: 6m

Phase 5: 4m

Phase 8: 6m

Phase 10: 4m

Phase 12: 4m

 

Now that is doable, but frankly too complex (or at least it involves too much record keeping) to work smoothly as a general mechanic.

 

Tracking over segments is accurate but involves (almost) everyone doing something every segment: combat will crawl - and what about direction changes?

 

Either that or you divide 24/5 and get 4.8...which is also awkward...

[Sean Waters]

Re: New Mechanic: Movement

 

Not necessarily' date=' since, unlike HA, it provides another ability, Movement, that could be considered the equivalent of Lift for STR.[/quote']

 

 

Hmm, so 5 points of movement could be +1DC as a base...interesting...