Transform Power Question

[PhosphorRose]

I don't have my book with me at work but here goes the question anyways...

 

In the description of the Transform power it lists three different types: Physical, Mental, & Spiritual. Now I can understand the use of the first two in game terms, however, Spiritual seems somewhat dubious of what it exactly covers and I'm a bit confused.

 

I believe in the text an example is given of a person transformed into a Demon being only a physical & spiritual Transform, so from that spiritual seems to encroach somewhat on the mental area which leaves alot of open calls.

 

An thoughts on this are appreciated.

[altamaros]

Re: Transform Power Question

 

Originally posted by PhosphorRose

I don't have my book with me at work but here goes the question anyways...

 

In the description of the Transform power it lists three different types: Physical, Mental, & Spiritual. Now I can understand the use of the first two in game terms, however, Spiritual seems somewhat dubious of what it exactly covers and I'm a bit confused.

 

Very personal interpretations, feel free to disagree

 

Physical : well, the physical :

flesh to stone, princess to toad, etc...

 

Mental : the mind, the memories, the psy. lim (i don't agree with the book, here), the knowledges and skills (specific aspects of memory)

brainwashing, memory alterations, telepathic knowledge transfer.

 

Spiritual : the very nature of the target, his/her destiny, his/her place in the Universe, his "aura".

Good/bad fortune, reality rewriting, "you will die within the year", the celtic geasas

 

the social aspect was not mentioned but the old "Ultimate Super Mage" also had a "social transform" category.

 

 

Originally posted by PhosphorRose I believe in the text an example is given of a person transformed into a Demon being only a physical & spiritual Transform, so from that spiritual seems to encroach somewhat on the mental area which leaves alot of open calls.

the target doesn't lose his/her memories nor his/her skills (mental aspects).

 

i detail the example as i perceive it :

The PC has been transformed into a demon

 

1) physical transform only.

the PC still have his/her personnality and his/her memories and is still basically the same.

Any telepath trying a mind scan to find the PC will find him as usual.

Any telepath trying to read his mind through telepathy will find the memories of the PC (and his surface thoughts as well). (assuming that the PC is human and that the telepathy works against human class of minds see below)

 

2) physical and mental transform

The PC doesn't have his memories anymore; he believes he is a demon !! (and has the skills to prove it) but

Any telepath trying a mind scan to find the PC will find him as usual. (he's still the same)

Any telepath trying to read his mind through telepathy will find the memories of a demon (and his surface thoughts as well). but the telepath might wonder why he can read a demon's mind while his telepathy is working on human class of minds.

and the PC may also suddenly realize that even as a demon he has no taste for doing evil and eating babies.

 

3) physical and spiritual transform

The PC still have his memories and knowledge but he's a demon in his heart, he will take pleasure into doing evil and all this sort of things; his nature is simply revealing.

a telepath trying a mind scan won't find the PC anymore (he doesn't "exist" anymore).

The same telepath trying to read the PC's mind will find himself unable to do so (because his telepathy works against human class of minds which the PC is not anymore).

 

are my interpretations valid ?

 

(edited to correct a fault)

[misterdeath]

What Altamaros Said, plus...

 

The simplest thing I can think of is Spiritual covers all those weird things that don't fit elsewhere.

 

Take "Giving opponent bad luck." Transform person to person with 6d6 Unluck.

 

It's not physical. He's exactly the same. It's not mental, nothing's changed there. So, it's spiritual, since that's what's left.

 

D

[Lord Liaden]

Besides the fundamental qualities of the person (good to evil, etc.), some other comments that Steve Long has made suggest that Spiritual Transform also alters the nature of the "soul" or "lifeforce" of the target. For example, if you Transform someone's body into stone, he or she would still be alive, aware and sentient. To actually make a living person into an insensate statue would require Physical and Spiritual Transform.

 

I've also been using Spiritual Transform as the basis for altering the social status of the recipient: his reputation, legal standing, wealth, and so on. I guess it strikes me as the kind of change Jimmy Stewart goes through in It's a Wonderful Life, so "spiritual" sounds as appropriate as anything. (I did ask Steve about this once, and he agreed that it seemed like a reasonable use of Spiritual Transform.)

[prestidigitator]

Re: Re: Transform Power Question

 

Originally posted by altamaros

2) physical and mental transform

The PC doesn't have his memories anymore; he believes he is a demon !! (and has the skills to prove it) but

Any telepath trying a mind scan to find the PC will find him as usual. (he's still the same)

Any telepath trying to read his mind through telepathy will find the memories of a demon (and his surface thoughts as well). but the telepath might wonder why he can read a demon's mind while his telepathy is working on human class of minds.

and the PC may also suddenly realize that even as a demon he has no taste for doing evil and eating babies.

 

Yeah. And I'd probably rule that "Banishment" (Extradimensional Travel, Usable as Attack, Only on Extraplanar Creatures) probably wouldn't work unless a Spiritual Transform had taken place....

[zornwil]

Re: Re: Transform Power Question

 

Originally posted by altamaros

3) physical and spiritual transform

The PC still have his memories and knowledge but he's a demon in his heart, he will take pleasure into doing evil and all this sort of things; his nature is simply revealing.

a telepath trying a mind scan won't find the PC anymore (he doesn't "exist" anymore).

The same telepath trying to read the PC's mind will find himself unable to do so (because his telepathy works against human class of minds which the PC is not anymore).

 

Lots of stuff snipped. Basically, I really liked your take. I don't even try to get into Phys/Spirit/Mental in Transforms, I pretty much ignored that, even though I DO like them as general ideas to wrap your head around and inform the Transform you build. But I don't use them as "rules". Anyway...regarding the above...

 

I would only add, and this is nitpicky but perhaps of interest, that telepaths who work on "hearing" thoughts (including background ones or "signature" sorts of thoughts) would work as you described above - as would "magical" telepaths. However, if you have telepaths who are built around the whole brain-wave theory and they're picking up electrical currents basically and interpreting those, then I'd say they'd "see"/"hear" mentally the being as the person they knew, as in mind scanning, but as soon as they reached in at all and got thoughts they'd almost surely know it wasn't whom they used to know.

[prestidigitator]

I actually worked a bit on a heroic fantasy magic system this weekend, and decided that transforming something into a "magical item" should be a Spiritual Transform. After all, the physical form (Body) isn't really changing, and there is certainly nothing related to Mind going on. FREd says objects usually don't have Spirit (for the purpose of Transform), so I decided that magically enhancing an item should be a Major Spiritual Transform.

 

I suppose you could argue that this should be a Summon instead, but I like the whole Transform mechanics for this: a random period of time based on how well the damage is rolled, heals back eventually if not completed, really more of a change to existing materials based on components and spells cast during the process, etc.