(5E) Help with shotguns

[bobrunnicles]

Okay guys, playing a Pulp Hero game and we ran into some questions about shotguns and I want to make sure we're doing it right. Firstly, the pertinent stats for the 12 gauge sawed off shotgun from Pulp Hero is this:

 

12 Shot, Sawed Off. +0 OCV, +0 Range, 2 1/2d6 RKA, 1d6 STUNx, 2 Shots, Str12, +3 PER, 140/22 A/R, 2H, AEC, AF2, NR, RR, RP

 

1) I assume that the NR limitation (No Range) only refers to the AEC, correct, in that the cone has to start adjacent to the firer? If he hits the target adjacent hex then everything in the cone takes damage, right? Out of curiousity, even with a DCV 0, what if the firer 'misses' (ie botches the roll)? Is it just a wasted shot? Does the cone origin hex move?

2) I can't find any way to get that active total up to the 140 points quoted - a 2 1/2d6 RKA is only a 40 point base, right? Most of what I can see there are limitations beyond the AEF.

3) Is it that 40 point base that is used for the range of the cone? As in 8 hexes (40/5)? Or should it be longer?

4) The RR obviously refers to the falling off in damage class as the range increases, but if the range of the cone is only 8 hexes, does that mean beyond that range there's no effect? Even though with the RR there's still a ways to go before running out of damage? No question about the RP other than the same range question here.

 

Thanks guys! Hope we're doing it right!

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: (5E) Help with shotguns

 

Okay guys, playing a Pulp Hero game and we ran into some questions about shotguns and I want to make sure we're doing it right. Firstly, the pertinent stats for the 12 gauge sawed off shotgun from Pulp Hero is this:

 

12 Shot, Sawed Off. +0 OCV, +0 Range, 2 1/2d6 RKA, 1d6 STUNx, 2 Shots, Str12, +3 PER, 140/22 A/R, 2H, AEC, AF2, NR, RR, RP

 

1) I assume that the NR limitation (No Range) only refers to the AEC, correct, in that the cone has to start adjacent to the firer? If he hits the target adjacent hex then everything in the cone takes damage, right? Out of curiousity, even with a DCV 0, what if the firer 'misses' (ie botches the roll)? Is it just a wasted shot? Does the cone origin hex move?

 

You are correct. The No Range limitation, when applied to Area of Effect powers means the Area of Effect starts in an adjecent hex (or the same hex if the character desires such as in the case of AoE-Radius powers) so in the case of an AoE-Cone, the 1st hex of the cone begins in the Hex adjecent to the shotgun wielder and extends from there.

 

As far as a miss in the case an area of effect attack power, the deviation rules apply however in the case of a shotgun, common sense must prevail, thus I would deviate the beginning hex to either the left or the right by a single hex (odd/even?) and recalculate accordingly. This would probably make it easier for the target to Dive for Cover if appropriate. It can also be dramatically appropriate to have the shotgun jam or the shell to be a dude in the case of a "miss".

 

 

2) I can't find any way to get that active total up to the 140 points quoted - a 2 1/2d6 RKA is only a 40 point base, right? Most of what I can see there are limitations beyond the AEF.

 

You've forgotten to apply the extra +1 modifier for applying Autofire to a "non-standard attack power". 40 base points with AoE (+1) Autofire-2 (+1 1/4) and +1 StunX (+1/4) is a total of +2 1/2. That comes out to 140 active.

 

3) Is it that 40 point base that is used for the range of the cone? As in 8 hexes (40/5)? Or should it be longer?

 

Its longer. When calculating the size of an Area of Effect power, apply all the advantages to the power except for the AoE advantages. Thus the Autofier (+1 1/4) and +1 StunX (+1/4) advantages apply, bringing the total to 120 Active points which makes the AoE cone 25" (1" + Active points/5") Seems a little big for a shotgun. I believe this is where the Reduced by Range limitation comes in.

 

4) The RR obviously refers to the falling off in damage class as the range increases, but if the range of the cone is only 8 hexes, does that mean beyond that range there's no effect? Even though with the RR there's still a ways to go before running out of damage? No question about the RP other than the same range question here.

 

Yes, beyond the range of the Cone, there is no effect. I'm assuming the Reduced by range is supposed to reduce the damage inside the hex, but this is misleading. It shouldn't be able to do that, but its only a minor quibble. Technically, the power should probably be written up at Explosion and simply reduce the damage of the AoE Cone with each hex it spreads out from the barrel.

 

Thanks guys! Hope we're doing it right!

 

No problem. The writeup is somewhat misleading and I can understand your confusion.

[Daltwisney]

Re: (5E) Help with shotguns

 

Its longer. When calculating the size of an Area of Effect power, apply all the advantages to the power except for the AoE advantages. Thus the Autofier (+1 1/4) and +1 StunX (+1/4) advantages apply, bringing the total to 120 Active points which makes the AoE cone 25" (1" + Active points/5") Seems a little big for a shotgun. I believe this is where the Reduced by Range limitation comes in.

Actually, it's 100 Active (40 * (1 + 1.25+.25)), so the AOE cone is then 21". With Reduced by Range, it would do 2 1/2d6 to anyone 4 hexes or closer, 2d6 to anyone between 5 and 8 away, 1d6+1 to anyone between 9 and 16 hexes, and finally 1/2d6 to anyone from 17 to 21 hexes out. Beyond that it does no damage.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: (5E) Help with shotguns

 

Actually' date=' it's 100 Active (40 * (1 + 1.25+.25)), so the AOE cone is then 21". With Reduced by Range, it would do 2 1/2d6 to anyone 4 hexes or closer, 2d6 to anyone between 5 and 8 away, 1d6+1 to anyone between 9 and 16 hexes, and finally 1/2d6 to anyone from 17 to 21 hexes out. Beyond that it does no damage.[/quote']

 

Yes, you are correct. I mistakenly multiplied 40 by 3 (+2) instead of 2.5 (+1 1/2). Thanks for catching that!

 

However, I think the Reduced by Range limitation is the wrong one for that particular writeup. RbR should reduce the damage the further the attack goes away from the source, but with the case of an Area of Effect attack, the damage should be consistant within the area. Explosion works for AoE powers that lose energy the further they get away from the originating hex, just conform the explosion in the shape of a Cone instead of a Radius (the default shape of the Explosion advantage). Dropping the AoE radius and Reduced by Range limitation and implanting Explosion (cone) to the writeup limits the area of effect to 14" which is much closer to the maximum effective range of a Sawed off Shotgun (about 25 meters) than the AoE cone writeup from the book (which has the effective range at around 40+ meters)

[Daltwisney]

Re: (5E) Help with shotguns

 

Yes, you are correct. I mistakenly multiplied 40 by 3 (+2) instead of 2.5 (+1 1/2). Thanks for catching that!

 

However, I think the Reduced by Range limitation is the wrong one for that particular writeup. RbR should reduce the damage the further the attack goes away from the source, but with the case of an Area of Effect attack, the damage should be consistant within the area. Explosion works for AoE powers that lose energy the further they get away from the originating hex, just conform the explosion in the shape of a Cone instead of a Radius (the default shape of the Explosion advantage). Dropping the AoE radius and Reduced by Range limitation and implanting Explosion (cone) to the writeup limits the area of effect to 14" which is much closer to the maximum effective range of a Sawed off Shotgun (about 25 meters) than the AoE cone writeup from the book (which has the effective range at around 40+ meters)

 

I agree that the range seems a bit long.

 

Explosion is an equally valid option. I suppose it depends on whether you want a more linear decrease in damage over the range. Since a Cone Explosion defaults to -1 DC/2" the damage drops off more dramatically as you get farther away. Having never been shot with a sawed-off shotgun, I can't say with certainty which is a better model. (Note: this is NOT an invitation to shoot me, I am perfectly happy remaining ignorant of said effects.)

[Greywind]

Re: (5E) Help with shotguns

 

The end with the holes gets pointed at the enemy.

[bobrunnicles]

Re: (5E) Help with shotguns

 

I agree that the range seems a bit long.

 

Explosion is an equally valid option. I suppose it depends on whether you want a more linear decrease in damage over the range. Since a Cone Explosion defaults to -1 DC/2" the damage drops off more dramatically as you get farther away. Having never been shot with a sawed-off shotgun, I can't say with certainty which is a better model. (Note: this is NOT an invitation to shoot me, I am perfectly happy remaining ignorant of said effects.)

 

Not even with a copy of 5ER to protect you? The bulletproof book?

 

 

Thanks for all the replies, guys - glad to know I was basically on the right track. The explosion suggestion is an interesting one, I wonder which way Steve will take it when Shotguns come up for 6E.

[IndianaJoe3]

Re: (5E) Help with shotguns

 

Thanks for all the replies, guys - glad to know I was basically on the right track. The explosion suggestion is an interesting one, I wonder which way Steve will take it when Shotguns come up for 6E.

 

The writeup in 6e2 still uses reduced by Range.