kinetic shield a.k.a. extra body for defensive purpose

[Dr Divago]

hi all

i need an help to create a "kinetic field", a.k.a. an energy shield, star trek-like

i mean: something can actually "fully absorb" a fixed amount of damage before dissipating

 

i already build something similar for equipment, some "personal energy shield"

i build 'em like some spare BODY "only to prevent (physical) damage". because of was equipment, i spent no much time dealing with the rules yadda yadda: it's just an equipment all people can buy (and almost the standard in personal combat)

 

but now i got some problem: i need to create a power to create an energy field...

aid body could be a good solution... except for the maximum limit (and the fact energy shields are supposed to be hit BEFORE armor and armor does not protect this shields' body)

 

entangle is the only way to make a power who create structure with some BODY and you can "put" on top of armor or whatever you got... but i think casting an entangle "only to form barrier" on yourself is not a good way to create a power...

 

force field is not usable for this BUT someone posted some time ago a FF version very expensive but working fine... does someone remember it?

 

ty for your answers

ps: i know it's forbidden to talk about previous version but... i know also defenses are very different in 6ed and 5ed... but i got only 5ed so please if you know a way to make this in 5ed rules i'll be very happy

[dmjalund]

Re: kinetic shield a.k.a. extra body for defensive purpose

 

Maybe you can add BODY to armor, like you can with Barrier

[Old Man]

Re: kinetic shield a.k.a. extra body for defensive purpose

 

Ablative force field?

[Dr Divago]

Re: kinetic shield a.k.a. extra body for defensive purpose

 

Ablative force field?

mmmhhh nope the problem is:

does not give PD/ED

 

when you're hit with this shield, assuming 5 point shield on:

a) enemy roll damage

damage are subtracted to the shield's body.

 

if enemy roll 3 damage, shield drop to 2 point, i get no damage at all

if enemy roll 9, shield goes to 0 point, go to c)

 

c) i get 4 damage. i start applying armor PD to 4 damage...

 

possible solutions:

1) entangle on self

with limitation "does not limit movement" (same cost than "only to form barrier")

with limitation "zero DEF"

with advantage "movable" (it moves with the caster)

 

2) FF/Armor

with focus limitation (where focus is "dark energy field"); focus get BODY (and DEF)

with limitation "PD/ED only up to BODY"

with limitation "shield get BODY damage = to damage absorbed" (a Side Effect)

 

3) Aid BODY

with limitation "does not get protection from armor or FF" (a -2 limitation...?)

[Chimera 12]

Re: kinetic shield a.k.a. extra body for defensive purpose

 

Sounds like what you'd want might be (under 6E rules, as I'm afraid my situation is the reverse of yours and I have no 5E rulebooks at all) a small 0 PD/0 ED Barrier that moves with the user and can't be projected at range. Since the book tells me that you need one at least four meters long or tall to 'englobe' a character, I'll go with that for a try:

 

4m long, 1m tall, and 0.5m thick Barrier with 0 PD, 0 ED, and 0 BODY, shaped into a suitable globe around the user: 6 base points (3 base + 3 more for the extra 3m, to be precise). Add 1 point for each point of BODY desired; let's say, purely for example's sake, that we want 20 BODY in our 'force field'. We're at 26 points now.

 

At this point, though, all we have is a small 'wall' that needs to be anchored (preferably to a horizontal surface), can't move once created, and interferes with attacks from both directions. This won't do for our force field. So...I'll apply the 10-point 'Non-Anchored' adder and the advantages Mobile (+1/4) and One-Way Transparent, the latter at the full +1 level so the person inside the barrier can use any and all available attacks against targets outside it. We now have a 20-BODY barrier that, if formed around its creator, moves with him or her "at the GM's option"; for argument's sake, I'll assume that the GM does in fact allow this. It also costs (26 + 10) * 2.25 = 81 Active Points and thus 8 END to create (but not maintain as Barrier is an Instant power -- it normally creates a 'wall' that then simply exists on its own). However, since the Barrier is intended to only protect its creator, it is effectively at No Range (-1/2), and we can also safely apply Restricted Shape (-1/4) because our force field has only the one shape that it ever manifests in, bringing the Real Cost down to a somewhat more reasonable 46 points. (We cannot, however, apply Cannot Englobe (-1/4) -- while it's true that this field isn't intended to be able to do that to another creature, since it lacks PD it inherently couldn't do it anyway. And a limitation that isn't a limitation...yeah. ) Expensive, perhaps, but this version is a barrier that can be recreated or restored to the full 20 BODY simply by re-using the power (a half-phase attack action that can be aborted to since Barrier is a Defense Power) and isn't yet dependent on any sort of Focus or Charges. And of course you can change the base cost by using more or less BODY than the 20 I did.

 

(As an afterthought: since Barrier normally creates 'real' walls, attacks that reduce its BODY to 0 usually 'just' blow holes into them rather than cause them to simply pop unless the Barrier is built with 0 BODY in the first place. However, the base size hole is 2m x 2m x 2m = 8 cubic meters and our force field technically only occupies 4 x 1 x 0.5 = 2 of those, so it's probably safe to say that once the BODY is gone, so is the barrier.)

[Dr Divago]

Re: kinetic shield a.k.a. extra body for defensive purpose

 

Sounds like what you'd want might be (under 6E rules' date=' as I'm afraid my situation is the reverse of yours and I have no 5E rulebooks at all) a small 0 PD/0 ED Barrier that moves with the user and can't be projected at range.[/quote']well, i don't know about "barrier" in 6e but i could try something similar in 5e too...

but it seems very expensive to me;

therefore, you need to spend end on it (and with no end will be very very very expensive and tooooo powerful)

 

btw, these are some new ideas:

a) a stacked ff with ablative

made a "shield" as a

FF 1 PD/1 Pow Def; No END (+½). Active: 3

RSR (-½), Ablative (-1). real cost: 1

and also a "stack of shield"

FF 1 PD; No END, Trigger (auto activate at shield casting successful; +½) Active: 2

Ablative (-1), Linked (-0). real cost: 1

 

you buy the power "shield" only one time then buy "stack of shield" to increase shield.

 

assuming a biotic buy 9 "stack of shield" for a total of 10 points; he cast "shield" and trigger auto cast all the "stack of shield". He now get 10 point of shield (10 PD, 1 Pow Def).

call the shield like 1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1 PD

assuming enemies roll 7 damage with a single shot

- shot hit first shield; 7 damage > 1 PD so 6 damage penetrate; penetrating also destroy first shield (it lose 5 active points -> destroyed)

- shot then hit second shield: 6 damage > 1 PD so 5 damage penetrate; penetrating also destroy second shield

etc.

the shot penetrate 6 stack of shield (and it's stopped by 7th)

 

next phase, same biotic is hit by a 5 damage attack. 1 damage hit the biotic and shields are gone.

 

so: if damage < total points of shield shield lose (damage-1) stack of damage

if damage > total points of shield shield are destroyed and biotic suffers damage-points of shield damage

 

ok it's working but it's really really really really ugly xD

 

an entangle. ok i know, it's not what entangle is made for, but let me explain

Entangle 3d6 BODY (3 DEF) (30 active) Moveable (+¼). Active: 37

No Defense (-½), RSR (-½), Does not Stop Movements (similar to "only to form barrier", -1), Self Only (No Range, -½). real cost: 11

 

in this way shields will be cast on self, giving a total of 3d6 BODY of shield

if someone shot the biotic, he will hit the "entangle" first, reducing the "entangle" body; when shield goes to 0 body, it disappear...

[Dr Divago]

Re: kinetic shield a.k.a. extra body for defensive purpose

 

think i need to explain reasons of this discussion;

a.k.a. the why i won't use standard FF

 

most important reason is balancing: in an heroic game where maximum damage from weapon is almost set, a big armor/force field can easily disrupt the feeling when a player start "tanking" enemies.

for tanking i mean: cast FF, then go forward stopping almost every attack.

ok, you can't use FF up forever BUT it spoil the setting's feeling where you can easily survive a single stray shot but under fire you need to get cover. and quickly. because being hit by a lot of shots means to be dead very quickly

 

barrier and kynetic shields are not a rare exception: they are the standard in combat, and biotic commandos (like asari commando) are a reality; they use biotic barrier to protect themselves while jumping in combat but i think making them unstoppable (even if for few seconds) is really unbalancing

i'd like them "hard to kill" not "very hard to be hurt"

 

plus, armors are what they need to stop bullet from hitting them; shields are not a way to go without armor, but a lifesaver in a painful situation

 

this is the reason why i'm searching a way to use shield "more useful vs a single powerful shot than vs a rain of microscopic shots"

[Chimera 12]

Re: kinetic shield a.k.a. extra body for defensive purpose

 

Well, Barrier is effectively the 6E version of the Force Wall power from Fourth Edition. Except that where Force Wall was Constant (requiring END every phase to maintain) and the 'wall' created always had 0 BODY underneath the defenses it provided, Barrier is Instant and creates 'real' walls that can (but don't have to) have BODY and last without further END expenditure once created. (If you do want them to cost END to maintain as well, that's a -1/2 Limitation.)

 

So, okay, maybe it's not quite that much like Force Wall.

 

Anyway, it seems to me that one aspect of how effective your proposed ablative defense is going to be is just how quickly it can be replenished once part or all of it is gone. (One reason the standard versions of Ablative don't fly off quite as quickly as "extra BODY" should is that they assume that your defense stays ablated for the rest of the adventure, barring the GM allowing otherwise.) Part of what makes my Barrier-based version so expensive in terms of real cost is the fact that, as per the usual Barrier rules, the user can still simply 'reset' or 'heal' the 'force field' more or less at will by using the power again and that once it's up, it costs no further END to maintain. 'Properly' modelling what I think you want would take more Limitations than I've yet put onto the power...with the obvious fringe benefit of reducing the actual final cost further, of course.

 

Edit: Another approach that came to mind after I posted -- it sounds like what you want to do could be alternatively modelled by getting creative with Charges. The 6E Advanced Player's Guide offers a writeup for "conserved" Charges which aren't necessarily used up right away; this is presented mainly as a random chance, but can map to alternate circumstances. So, let's say that a Force Field that doesn't go away at all just from being turned on and off but can only ever absorb total BODY damage equal to one of the defenses it provides is about equivalent to "charge only burns out on a roll of 8 or less". (It could be higher if the defense is low relative to the attacks used in your campaign, but I wouldn't necessarily know that; in any case, I'm not too worried about whether or not the Field can stick around when there's no damage for it to soak up in the first place, here.) That would be the Charges Limitation reduced by 3/4 (1/2 for an 11- charge burnout roll or equivalent, 1/4 for a 14-), which can roll over into an increased Advantage.

 

So if you wanted, say, the same effective "extra 20 BODY" available to a character about once per adventure, that could be a 20 PD/20 ED Force Field, 1 Conserved Charge (-1 1/4, Only Used Up Upon Absorbing 20 BODY Damage), and possibly with other Limitations like (depending on the source) Costs Endurance (-1/2) or Focus.

[Dr Divago]

Re: kinetic shield a.k.a. extra body for defensive purpose

 

Well' date=' Barrier is effectively the 6E version of the Force Wall power from Fourth Edition. Except that where Force Wall was Constant (requiring END every phase to maintain) and the 'wall' created always had 0 BODY underneath the defenses it provided, Barrier is Instant and creates 'real' walls that can (but don't have to) have BODY and last without further END expenditure once created. (If you do want them to cost END to maintain as well, that's a -1/2 Limitation.)[/quote']it looks more like entangle "only to form barrier"...

Edit: Another approach that came to mind after I posted -- it sounds like what you want to do could be alternatively modelled by getting creative with Charges.

[cuuuuuuuuuuut]

mmmhhh

the problem is:

a) don't like charge on "powers" (charge it's good for equipment, btw)

this shield is not a "ff wich drop after some hits" (btw this could be helpful too) but more something that reduce his PD when it stop damage

mmmhhhh

and a FF with a side effect?

a side effect wich always occur, that drop PD on the same amount than damage stopped...

[Chimera 12]

Re: kinetic shield a.k.a. extra body for defensive purpose

 

Well, Entangling yourself for armor purposes isn't really the point of that power. I suppose you could do it, but then you'd also be immobilized as usual; the 6E writeup explicitly spells out that Personal Immunity does not let you wriggle out of this. (Pun intended.)

 

Other than that, I'm currently out of ideas. Arguably, losing defense points equal to the BODY absorbed should simply be a Limitation to the power providing said defense; the problem is in figuring out how much of one it would really be, which in part depends on how easy said power is to re-use. (Clearly, "those points are now gone until the end of the adventure" would be more restricting than "they're gone until you turn your shield on again as a zero phase action next phase".)

[Dr Divago]

Re: kinetic shield a.k.a. extra body for defensive purpose

 

Other than that' date=' I'm currently out of ideas[/quote']mmmhhh ok

let's start on a different basis. how to limit FF??

 

Edit

discussion about how to limit FF is a bit off topic from this topic;

so i started a new one: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/78958-Force-Field-that-s-not-so-much-uberpower?p=1994540

ty for helping ;