Equipment costing and exceptions to cost scheme

[Narf the Mouse]

I have a basic rule for costing equipment: It costs AP * RP in whatever the base campaign currency is. Currently, there's only one default exception: Charges modifies AP before multiplying.

It seems to make the costs come out right and makes sense. If you buy 45 AP of Healing, it's worth more than 45 AP of healing that can only be used 4 times a day, because the actual use of the AP is less.

This doesn't affect power use, since you're just paying RP.

 

So, I'm wondering how to clarify the rational into actual rules for what counts as an exception (And also reduces AP before multiplying) and what doesn't,

The specific question I want answered is "Does STR Minimum on a Melee Attack" count under the rational?

 

Argument for: It makes each AP you pay for in the Equipment have less effect per use. That is, a character with 18 STR and a 13 STR Minimum weapon will do -2 DCs less than one with a "Melee Attack" (Hand Attack, HKA) of the same base DCs, with no STR Minimum (Magic Sword, Laser Saber, Vibroblade, Etc.)

 

Argument against: There's no rational to carefully consider it under.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Equipment costing and exceptions to cost scheme

 

You know, I've tried schemes like this, and while they can be really gratifying to think up and try to iron out, in the end I usually just scrap it and eyeball a price. There's always going to be SOMETHING that just doesn't make sense in the pricing scheme. Don't go too D&D 3 on us here. (Honestly one of the most disappointing changes they put in place for D&D 3 IMO is the standardization of magical item prices, amount of money you should have at a particular character level, etc. That's all utter hogwash IMO. Every campaign is and should be completely different, and even in a very high-magic setting magical items shouldn't be bought and sold like exotic spices.)

[Jazz]

Re: Equipment costing and exceptions to cost scheme

 

I have a basic rule for costing equipment: It costs AP * RP in whatever the base campaign currency is. Currently, there's only one default exception: Charges modifies AP before multiplying.

It seems to make the costs come out right and makes sense. If you buy 45 AP of Healing, it's worth more than 45 AP of healing that can only be used 4 times a day, because the actual use of the AP is less.

This doesn't affect power use, since you're just paying RP.

 

So, I'm wondering how to clarify the rational into actual rules for what counts as an exception (And also reduces AP before multiplying) and what doesn't,

The specific question I want answered is "Does STR Minimum on a Melee Attack" count under the rational?

 

Argument for: It makes each AP you pay for in the Equipment have less effect per use. That is, a character with 18 STR and a 13 STR Minimum weapon will do -2 DCs less than one with a "Melee Attack" (Hand Attack, HKA) of the same base DCs, with no STR Minimum (Magic Sword, Laser Saber, Vibroblade, Etc.)

 

Argument against: There's no rational to carefully consider it under.

 

 

I look at this way Mutt and Jeff walk into a store and both see sword they both want and it costs 200 dollars. Mutt is stronger than Jeff and would wield it more but only have 150 dollars while and Jeff has the 200 dollars but only wants to pay 150 because hes weaker than his friend. The merchant would laugh at him.

[Narf the Mouse]

Re: Equipment costing and exceptions to cost scheme

 

...Not sure what your point is, Jazz. How does that relate to my cost scheme?

[Rapier]

Re: Equipment costing and exceptions to cost scheme

 

I've tried a number of things over the years. I once went positively crazy trying to figure out how much time/effort everything would cost to make and using a formula based off the income of the average person.

 

I've tried using $x / AP and $x / RP. Both of those seemed to fail miserably because of the skewed way in which some items are built. A flashlight or candle is going to be much more AP and RP than warranted by it's cost. Have you seen the stats on a Taser? A taser has more AP and RP than many restricted, military grade guns.

 

In the end, I either end up sticking an 'appropriate' price on everything or just allowing everyone to have a certain amount of stuff and don't worry with the bookkeeping.

 

Have you made any of the conversions so far? I'd like to see some samples of how the costs come out.

[Narf the Mouse]

Re: Equipment costing and exceptions to cost scheme

 

...They come out ok to not very well.

 

Thanks, I think I was stuck on the cost scheme and couldn't see outside of the box. I'm slapping campaign-appropriate prices on stuff and making campaign-specific items now. Check the game thread at Need Game Advice to see the latest updates - I'll stick the new stuff up after the next session.

[brionl]

Re: Equipment costing and exceptions to cost scheme

 

You know' date=' I've tried schemes like this, and while they can be really gratifying to think up and try to iron out, in the end I usually just scrap it and eyeball a price. There's always going to be SOMETHING that just doesn't make sense in the pricing scheme. Don't go too D&D 3 on us here. (Honestly one of the most disappointing changes they put in place for D&D 3 IMO is the standardization of magical item prices, amount of money you should have at a particular character level, etc. That's all utter hogwash IMO. Every campaign is and should be completely different, and even in a very high-magic setting magical items shouldn't be bought and sold like exotic spices.)[/quote']

 

Just because something has a price listed doesn't mean you can go out and buy it anywhere. A 1937 Bugatti Type 57S has a price of 4.4 million dollars. That doesn't mean you're going to find one sitting on Smelly Jim's Used Cars in East Treestump, GA. Buying and selling magical items like exotic spices is a failure of the GM, not the system.

[Escafarc]

Re: Equipment costing and exceptions to cost scheme

 

May I suggest finding a copy of this"

 

[prestidigitator]

Re: Equipment costing and exceptions to cost scheme

 

Just because something has a price listed doesn't mean you can go out and buy it anywhere. A 1937 Bugatti Type 57S has a price of 4.4 million dollars. That doesn't mean you're going to find one sitting on Smelly Jim's Used Cars in East Treestump' date=' GA. Buying and selling magical items like exotic spices is a failure of the GM, not the system.[/quote']

 

Perhaps, but the system and source material certainly set the stage, serving as a starting point for game flavor and player expectations. There's just a point where you can tell things have gone too far....

[brionl]

Re: Equipment costing and exceptions to cost scheme

 

Perhaps' date=' but the system and source material certainly set the stage, serving as a starting point for game flavor and player expectations. There's just a point where you can tell things have gone too far....[/quote']

 

They certainly didn't go out of their way to discourage it, but when you combine the gold piece limits and high level character population with the city sizes, it can be used to keep a damper on that kind of thing, besides just GM fiat.

 

That catalog looks nice, I might have to track down a copy. Wonder if it's on Drivethru RPG...