Dating Dracula

[Vondy]

No, I don't mean dating in the romantic sense. I mean dating the story in a calender sense. Stoker's book was Published in 1897. In the manuscript the assorted journal entries are dated with days and months, but no years, as was the custom amongst the Gothic horror scribbling set. At the end of the book there is a final entry serving as an epilogue that reads "seven years ago we went through the fire...." Because of the publication date many people give the events depicted in Dracula a defacto date of 1890. Is there a specific reason to adhere to this? Is there something in the manuscript that would lock the period into very late Victorian era? Or is there room to move it to any earlier part of the era? I haven't read it in a while. Why do I ask? Because I'm working on some dark fantasy shorts set around the time of the civil war, let's call in 1859-1867, and I would like to use Mina Harker with the Dracula events behind her. Would you, as a reader, cry foul and let loose the dogs of nitpick at seeing her in that time frame? Or would it "work" for you?

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Dating Dracula

 

Well, offhand the only element from the novel I can think of which might require careful handling, is the character Quincey Morris, described IIRC as a wealthy young American from Texas. Texas joined the secessionist states in 1861, and Quincey would almost certainly have fought during the American Civil War or would need a good reason not to have.

[Vondy]

Re: Dating Dracula

 

Good observation. As for handling it, Texas was a part of the Union from 1845-1861 and from 1866 onward. If Mina is in the United States in 1859, then the events could have occurred some time between 1845 and 1852, if the postscript reference "seven years ago," is taken as authoritative and not wiped away, or turned on its head, by authorial caveat. Thanks for you input.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Dating Dracula

 

Just because the story of Dracula is written down seven years after those events, does that mean you have to wait seven years after whatever date you decide they occurred, before you can use Mina in your story?

[McCoy]

Re: Dating Dracula

 

Just because the story of Dracula is written down seven years after those events' date=' does that mean you have to wait seven years after whatever date you decide they occurred, before you can use Mina in your story?[/quote']

No, just that the "seven years ago" postscript establishes that the events described could not have taken place after 1890, and the wealthy young American from Texas reference indicates that they probably were not before 1845.

 

Caveat: Quincey Morris could possibly have been an American, or even a wealthy American, then living in the Republic of Texas and visiting England on business. But his affected cowboy slang makes me doubt an earlier date.

 

Interestingly, 1845-47 saw the publication of the serialized Varney the Vampire. Perhaps contemporaneous events were mis-reported as Varney, and after 1852 the manuscripts that would become Dracula were collected, only to lie neglected until Stoker chanced across them almost 50 years later?

[Markdoc]

Re: Dating Dracula

 

There are a few specific references. Van Helsing, that ultra-modern man of science, quotes a number of published authors - American psychologist William James, who was writing in the 1870's. Mina Harker - modern woman that she is! - refers to César Lombroso and Max Nordau (yes, that Max Nordau!) who were both writing in the 1880's. On the other hand, I doubt many readers would pick up on that!

 

Technology presets more difficulties. Harker sends and receives telegrams while on his way to Dracula's castle. Van Helsing is also contacted by telegraph. That places the novel after the introduction of public telegraph systems in the Austro-Hungarian empire, which means probably post 1870'ish (though if they had some special arrangement with the railways, maybe only post 1850'ish) - and when they are chasing Dracula, they are monitoring the progress of his ship by telegraph reports, all the way to Varna (in Bulgaria), which certainly fits better with a post-1870 date (though the first telegraph line to Varna was laid by the British during the crimean war, so mid 1850's. I dunno how far it reached though). At any rate none of this could be earlier than 1851, though, because prior to that there were no trans-channel telegraph cables. Additionally, some of the characters travel by steamship, again suggesting a post-1870 date, for commercial steamship routes other than trans-atlantic were pretty thin on the ground, prior to that. In addition, poor Harker misses his phonograph - invented in 1877.

 

Geography also provides some hints. There's also Harker's stop in Budapest (the city got that name in 1873) and the comment that Varna is in Bulgaria (which acquired it in 1878)

 

The clincher though, is that on the way back to Transylvania, the main characters travel on the Orient express, whose first run was in 1883. Put together, the specific references all point strongly to a date in the late 1880's. It depends how uber-geeky you want to be: a few readers will pick up on this, but by far the vast majority won't. You could cover your tracks by indicating that Stoker picked up an older tale and set it in his own time.

 

There's a better way, though - post-Dracula Mina Harker as protagonist has already been done in recent comics and film. Why not use Lucy from Carmilla instead? Her story is not only earlier - fitting better with your period - but very similar in many ways to Mina Harker's.

 

cheers, Mark

[Vondy]

Re: Dating Dracula

 

There are a few specific references. Van Helsing, that ultra-modern man of science, quotes a number of published authors - American psychologist William James, who was writing in the 1870's. Mina Harker - modern woman that she is! - refers to César Lombroso and Max Nordau (yes, that Max Nordau!) who were both writing in the 1880's. On the other hand, I doubt many readers would pick up on that!

 

Technology presets more difficulties. Harker sends and receives telegrams while on his way to Dracula's castle. Van Helsing is also contacted by telegraph. That places the novel after the introduction of public telegraph systems in the Austro-Hungarian empire, which means probably post 1870'ish (though if they had some special arrangement with the railways, maybe only post 1850'ish) - and when they are chasing Dracula, they are monitoring the progress of his ship by telegraph reports, all the way to Varna (in Bulgaria), which certainly fits better with a post-1870 date (though the first telegraph line to Varna was laid by the British during the crimean war, so mid 1850's. I dunno how far it reached though). At any rate none of this could be earlier than 1851, though, because prior to that there were no trans-channel telegraph cables. Additionally, some of the characters travel by steamship, again suggesting a post-1870 date, for commercial steamship routes other than trans-atlantic were pretty thin on the ground, prior to that. In addition, poor Harker misses his phonograph - invented in 1877.

 

Geography also provides some hints. There's also Harker's stop in Budapest (the city got that name in 1873) and the comment that Varna is in Bulgaria (which acquired it in 1878)

 

The clincher though, is that on the way back to Transylvania, the main characters travel on the Orient express, whose first run was in 1883. Put together, the specific references all point strongly to a date in the late 1880's. It depends how uber-geeky you want to be: a few readers will pick up on this, but by far the vast majority won't.

 

All good points... and why I asked the question.

 

You could cover your tracks by indicating that Stoker picked up an older tale and set it in his own time.

 

I do have a vitriolic prescript written by Mina that lambastes Stoker, Harker, and Van Helsing, but it has to do with the veracity the published work and the fact that there was a "real story" rather then when the tale occured (the prescript was written with WWI events in mind, but I wanted to stick to the "Old West"/"Gilded Age" which, for all intensive purposes, end by 1901, thereby avoiding the 20th century and all that modern military porn!).

 

There's a better way' date=' though - post-Dracula Mina Harker as protagonist has already been done in recent comics and film. Why not use Lucy from Carmilla instead? Her story is not only earlier - fitting better with your period - but very similar in many ways to Mina Harker's.[/quote']

 

Its been some time since I read Camilla, but its an interesting idea. I'll have to blow through it again. My original back-burner option was Erzebet Bathory... The Blood Countess Walks Again! But, I was also thinking about having her be an additional anti-hero, if not antagonist. I'll chew on it.

 

Nitpicky Edit: I think its Laura in Camilla. Lucy was Mina's friend.

[Vondy]

Re: Dating Dracula

 

I tried to rep all of you thus far, but I must spread it around...

[Markdoc]

Re: Dating Dracula

 

Nitpicky Edit: I think its Laura in Camilla. Lucy was Mina's friend.

 

D'oh!

 

cheers, Mark

[yamamura]

Re: Dating Dracula

 

I got Markdoc for ya. Would have posted some thing but he covered the bases quite well.

[csyphrett]

Re: Dating Dracula

 

Saerhagen's Dracula Files did something similar. I dont know if it would help you in any way, but I seem to remember that it took an angle that he survived because he wanted the heroes to stab him with the wrong thing.

CES