question about multipower magic pools

[Dspin0212]

When making a multipower framework to be used as a character array of abilities do i put the gestures, focus, and incantation limitation on the multipower as well or just the individual powers?

 

- Gestalt Gamer

[Ternaugh]

Re: question about multipower magic pools

 

If all powers/spells/abilities require the limitations, then they may be applied to the multipower pool as well.

 

JoeG

[Killer Shrike]

Re: question about multipower magic pools

 

Either. If placed on the framework then it reduces the cost of the framework itself as well as any slots in it, but it REQUIRES all slots to have ALL those Limitations.

 

An alternative approach is to use the VARIABLE LIMITATION limitation on the framework and slots instead which will not lower the cost as much but gives you some flexibility on the slots themselves. If slot 1 is always Incant & Gestures and slot 2 is always Incant and Focus then that is just a no-point concept thing, or if you are generous a -1/4 limitation on the slot(s) that are further restricted.

[JavalTigar]

Re: question about multipower magic pools

 

If you are building a wizard another good limitation is a skill roll required (ie Magik Skill). Its worth another -1/2. That is how my wizard is built.

[Paradox]

Re: question about multipower magic pools

 

I'm still using 5th edition rules (btw)

 

This going to depend on how you allow your characters to build their wizards. For my game I apply the -1/4 "Magic spells" to the MP pool, then buy the slots and insert created spells. I know that the cost of each slot is based on the MP pool not the active points of the spell, but in my game the players have to learn at least 30 real points worth of spells before they can buy the MP. Also this is going to depend on how your magic is separated IE schools, classes, elements etc. With mine each Element requires its own MP pool... This could get long winded and thats not what i want to do. So in answer to your question it depends on how you want the magic to feel. If you have a list of common limitations that ALL spells require then you can place them in on the MP pool. Other wise if you say that all spells require at least say -2 in limitations then Killerstrike's idea works wonders. A lot of it all depends on how you want the feel of it be. General mages, specialist wizards.. etc

[The Weapon]

Re: question about multipower magic pools

 

Either. If placed on the framework then it reduces the cost of the framework itself as well as any slots in it, but it REQUIRES all slots to have ALL those Limitations.

 

An alternative approach is to use the VARIABLE LIMITATION limitation on the framework and slots instead which will not lower the cost as much but gives you some flexibility on the slots themselves. If slot 1 is always Incant & Gestures and slot 2 is always Incant and Focus then that is just a no-point concept thing, or if you are generous a -1/4 limitation on the slot(s) that are further restricted.

 

I'm not sure you can have a variable limitation on the power framework and non-variable ones on the slots so I asked in the rules forum. If not you can always have the variable limitation on them all and the player can just play as though the slots had fixed limitations if he wanted. It's a slight points ripoff from his point of view but not much.

[Matt Holck]

Re: question about multipower magic pools

 

Either. If placed on the framework then it reduces the cost of the framework itself as well as any slots in it, but it REQUIRES all slots to have ALL those Limitations.

 

An alternative approach is to use the VARIABLE LIMITATION limitation on the framework and slots instead which will not lower the cost as much but gives you some flexibility on the slots themselves. If slot 1 is always Incant & Gestures and slot 2 is always Incant and Focus then that is just a no-point concept thing, or if you are generous a -1/4 limitation on the slot(s) that are further restricted.

 

I've always used the VARIABLE LIMITATION route and been at odds with the set limitations I would choose for each slot

so the additional -1/4 makes sense.

But an additional quarter limation on slots already with limitations isn't likely to change the real cost of the slots.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: question about multipower magic pools

 

Either. If placed on the framework then it reduces the cost of the framework itself as well as any slots in it, but it REQUIRES all slots to have ALL those Limitations.

 

An alternative approach is to use the VARIABLE LIMITATION limitation on the framework and slots instead which will not lower the cost as much but gives you some flexibility on the slots themselves. If slot 1 is always Incant & Gestures and slot 2 is always Incant and Focus then that is just a no-point concept thing, or if you are generous a -1/4 limitation on the slot(s) that are further restricted.

 

I'm not sure you can have a variable limitation on the power framework and non-variable ones on the slots so I asked in the rules forum. If not you can always have the variable limitation on them all and the player can just play as though the slots had fixed limitations if he wanted. It's a slight points ripoff from his point of view but not much.

 

I'm pretty sure Steve answered this in the negative before. However, I take KillerShrike's approach, with a bit of modification. If the limitations on a slot are fixed, then I allow the full limitation value for that slot. It doesn't make much difference for most slot costs (it matters more in a VPP, though). However, in my view, it is not reasonable that fixing the limitations on the slots, making them less versatile, should make the Multipower as a whole cost more.

 

So, extrapolating from KS' example, if all spells require Requires a Skill Roll at -1/4 or higher, and I have three slots, as follows:

 

- slot 1 is always Incant & Gestures (-3/4 in total limitations)

- slot 2 is always Incant and Obvious Inaccessible Focus (-1 in total limitations)

- Slot 3 is always Gestures and RSR at -1/2 (-3/4 in total limitations)

- Slot 4 is RSR at -1/4 and requires a total of -1/2 in other limitations which can be altered on the fly

 

then I would cost as follows:

 

Slot 1 always has -3/4 in fixed limitations so the slot cost is /1.75

Slot 2 always has -1 in fixed limitations so the slot cost is /2

Slot 3 always has -3/4 in fixed limitations so the slot cost is /1.75

Slot 4 always has -1/4 in fixed limitations and -1/2 in variable limitations, which is a -1/4 limitation, so the slot cost is /1.5

 

The pool has RSR at -1/4 as that is required of all spells, and -1/4 of variable limitations as every slot has at least -1/2 in additional limitations, so costs /1.5.

 

If I follow the rules as written, the pool would have only -1/4 of limitations. However, if Slots 1, 2 and 3 eliminated their fixed limitations (other than RSR at -1/4) and instead took Variable Limitations at -1/2, the cost of the pool would go down (it would now have Var lim and RSR for a total of -1/2) while the versatility of the underlying slots would go up. Since I don't believe a point discount should apply for enhancing your options, I need to deviate from the rules as written.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: question about multipower magic pools

 

Either. If placed on the framework then it reduces the cost of the framework itself as well as any slots in it, but it REQUIRES all slots to have ALL those Limitations.

 

An alternative approach is to use the VARIABLE LIMITATION limitation on the framework and slots instead which will not lower the cost as much but gives you some flexibility on the slots themselves.

 

Note that I said that VARLIM is applied to BOTH the framework AND the slots.

 

 

If slot 1 is always Incant & Gestures and slot 2 is always Incant and Focus then that is just a no-point concept thing,

 

What I'm saying here is that if for concept reasons a given slot or slots does not make full use of the variability of VARLIM then its just a concept restriction and not worth any points or further limitation.

 

Thus, in the stated example, slot 1 technically can use any lims up to the required VARLIM quota. But if the player or GM stipulates that, no, slot 1 is always Incant and Gestures then so be it. It still just gets the lim value of VARLIM even though for concept reasons this particular slot is more limited than required.

 

 

or if you are generous a -1/4 limitation on the slot(s) that are further restricted.

 

BUT if you are a generous GM you could allow a further -1/4 lim on such a slot, using GM's discretion / fiat. As the GM you can always wave your wand and "make it fair" if you want.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: question about multipower magic pools

 

I'm not sure you can have a variable limitation on the power framework and non-variable ones on the slots so I asked in the rules forum. If not you can always have the variable limitation on them all and the player can just play as though the slots had fixed limitations if he wanted. It's a slight points ripoff from his point of view but not much.

 

I'm sorry that I didn't see this post prior to you posting the question to Steve, so as to head this off. Unfortunately, either my post was unclear or you misunderstood it, but this is not what I meant.

 

Please see the clarifying post above this one, which I hope removes any confusion.

 

Additionally, I would appreciate it if you would remove my name from the erroneous attribution in your rules forum post.