Stat Roll for Half Damage?

[Demonsong]

Stat Roll for Half Damage?

 

Obviously a rip off from an unmentionable evil game system but still applicable. This is for spells in a Fantasy Hero Game. Mainly this question came about on a spell I was designing called Blinding Vapor. It’s a scroll that the party I am GMing acquired. Any way it is simply a 4D6 Flash vs. normal sight group, with the explosive advantage on it. Basically the caster shoots a ball of dark liquid that explodes in a burning vapor that temporary blinds its victims. My thought was that even if a victim of this spell did not have the foresight to dive for cover they might think to close there eye and move out of the cloud at there first opportunity. Maybe a perception or dex roll. Any way if one was to use a limitation on a spell like this what would its value be. I was thinking…

 

-1/2 Half damage or duration with successful perception check

 

OR

 

-1/4 Half damage/duration with successful perception check with a -3 penalty

 

 

Input???

[eepjr24]

Save rolls

 

Seems like a reasonable value for the lims.

 

- Ernie

[prestidigitator]

You can see my solution to this under the "Creating Hero d20" thread, which by now is a page or two down the list. In short, I consider it a "Saving Throw" which prevents the damage entirely. In order to make it half damage when the roll is successful, only apply the Limitation to half the dice of the attack.

 

By the way, I considered it to be a pretty major Limitation, since the roll is in the target's hands, not the attacker's.

[eepjr24]

Originally posted by prestidigitator

You can see my solution to this under the "Creating Hero d20" thread, which by now is a page or two down the list. In short, I consider it a "Saving Throw" which prevents the damage entirely. In order to make it half damage when the roll is successful, only apply the Limitation to half the dice of the attack.

 

I could easily see this working as well. I went and read your post, but it was short on details of the system you use specifically. Do you have a link you can post or a more detailed description of the lim values, etc?

 

- Ernie

[prestidigitator]

Originally posted by eepjr24

I could easily see this working as well. I went and read your post, but it was short on details of the system you use specifically. Do you have a link you can post or a more detailed description of the lim values, etc?

Sure. The details are at home, so don't expect these to be the exact values I came up with. Also, keep in mind that this needs to be play-tested. I consider the Limitation very severe because Saving Throws are up to the target, and may be increased pretty easily; I believe I based the value on an Activation Roll, assuming the target could always come up with a 14- Saving Throw, or something like that, with an additional -1/2 for some other reason.

 

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Saving Throws (Everyman Skills):

• Fortitude:
  Str-based
  Con-based
   
  
• Reflex:
  Str-based
  Dex-based
   
  
• Will:
  Int-based
  Ego-based
  Pre-based

These are all considered Characteristic-based Skills which every character gets at full proficiency as part of his/her Everyman Skills (3 points each for purposes of buying them back). A character's Int-based Saving Throw, for example, starts as a 9+Int/5 roll. Each Saving Throw may be increased by +1 for 2 Character Points. Fortitude, Reflex, and Will are considered Tight Groups, and their included Saving Throws may simultaneously be increased for 4 Character Points. All Saving Throw rolls may be increased simultaneously (the Str-based Saving Throw is increased by only +1, even though it is included in two groups) for 8 points. Additionally, any appropriate Skill Levels may be applied to Saving Throw rolls (and assigning to them is considered a defensive action for the purposes of aborting). For this purpose, all Saving Throws are considered related (5-point Skill Levels may be bought to apply to all Saving Throws). However, unlike simultaneously increasing Saving Throw rolls, Skill Levels may apply to only one Saving Throw roll at a time.

 

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Allows Saving Throw (-2 Limitation): This Limitation is similar to the Requires Skill Roll Limitation, except that it grants the target, not the attacker, a free roll to avoid the effects. At its base value, this allows the target always to roll a Saving Throw (which must be chosen at the time the attacker builds the power) with no modifiers. The Limitation can be modified as follows:

• Target may be denied the Saving Throw under specific circumstances: 1/4 to 2 less Limitation (depending on how frequent the situation is; denied during full moon might be 1/4 less, but denied to humanoids may be 2 less)
  
• Target gets +1 to Saving Throw for each 5 active points in the power: 1/2 more Limitation
  
• Target gets +1 to Saving Throw for each 10 active points in the power: 1/4 more Limitation
  
• Target gets -1 to Saving Throw for each 10 active points in the power: 1/4 less Limitation
  
• Target gets -1 to Saving Throw for each 5 active points in the power: 1/2 less Limitation
  
• Owner of power may choose which Saving Throw at the time the attack is made: 1 less Limitation
  
• Target must make an additional Saving Throw (the same type or different), and if any roll fails, the power has full effect: 1/2 less Limitation per extra Saving Throw
  
• Target may make an additional Saving Throw (the same type or different), and if any roll succeeds, the power has no effect: 1/2 more Limitation per extra Saving Throw
  
• Power is continuous and target may make a Saving Throw each time (s)he would normally be affected (rather than just once to avoid all effects), and is never again affected by this instance of the power once a roll is successful: 1/2 more Limitation (1/4 less Limitation for each step down the Time Chart between rolls)
  
• Power is continuous and target must make a Saving Throw each time (s)he would normally be affected (rather than just once to avoid all effects), and is affected every time the roll fails: 1/2 less Limitation
  
• Power is beneficial: 1 less Limitation

It is a special case when this Limitation is applied to a fraction of the effect dice of an attack. In this case, multiply the effect rolled for the attack (not the dice before the effect roll) by the fraction of the effect dice for which the Limitation was not applied. For example, if the Saving Throw Limitation is applied to 3 out of 4 dice of an Energy Blast, and the attacker hits, rolling 14 Stun and 4 Body, then the target takes (1/4)*14=3 Stun and (1/4)*4=1 Body (note that the target is the one who is multiplying due to a successful Saving Throw roll, so halves are rounded in his/her favor, not the attacker's).

 

A willing target may purposfully fail his/her Saving Throw if (s)he is aware of the attack and wishes to completely lower his/her defenses (no Saving Throws allowed until next Phase unless an abort is performed). Thus, this Limitation still applies (at a lesser value) for powers which are beneficial to a target in nature (this is usually obvious--Aid vs. Drain, for example--but can be non-obvious for attacks such as those bought with Usable Against Others; whether a power is considered beneficial is ultimately up to the GM). Note that the attacker always knows (at least on a subconscious level) whether the attack is basically beneficial or not (this can be circumvented by decreasing the value of the Limitation by 1/2, but the target will still have to be convinced to drop his/her guard).

 

The attacker may use any Combat Skill Levels (2-point levels may be bought specifically to reduce a Saving Throw rather than increase OCV) which would normally apply to the attack to instead impose a -1 on the target's Saving Throw roll(s).

 

No matter the variation in this Limitation, it can never be worth less than -0 (no matter how hard it is to save against an attack, the attack is no more powerful than if the target could not make a Saving Throw at all).

[Dust Raven]

I don't think a Saving Throw Limitation is worth nearly that much. It shouldn't be worth any more (or much more) than the standard Requires Skill Roll Lim. Does it really matter who rolls the dice? The dice don't care..they'll roll what they do no matter who rolls them.

[prestidigitator]

Originally posted by Dust Raven

I don't think a Saving Throw Limitation is worth nearly that much. It shouldn't be worth any more (or much more) than the standard Requires Skill Roll Lim. Does it really matter who rolls the dice? The dice don't care..they'll roll what they do no matter who rolls them.

There is no difference in who throws the dice onto the table. The difference is in who owns the basic roll; the fact that the target has quite a bit of control over the probability of the roll succeeding. For Activation Roll or Requires Skill Roll, the owner of the power has almost complete control over the probability that his/her power will work. For example, if I take Activation Roll: 11-, I know the exact chances my power is going to succeed, and (except with the GM's creative license) the target of the attack has no way of changing this probability. Likewise, there is just about the same mechanics for a skill roll (it's just a little more expected that the GM might come up with some situational modifiers to the roll).

 

For a Saving Throw, on the other hand, the power's owner can impose a small amount of control (by varying the value of the Limitation, and by using CSLs), but the probability of the Saving Throw being successful depends on the target's characteristics, the target's proficiency with the skills, the target's Skill Levels, and the target's (as well as the attacker's) use of tactics. With a straight Saving Throw, average Characteristics, and no bonuses to the roll, the attacker's power is going to be effective less than half the time. Furthermore, it is reasonable to expect that most significant opponents will have bought higher than average Characteristics, possibly some increases in their Saving Throw skills themselves, have some applicable Skill Levels, or some combination of the above. Thus, I based the value on an activation roll of 9- (same as a Saving Throw of 12- because they have complimentary effects), with an extra -1/2 Limitation because Saving Throws are relatively easy for a target to increase, and are in large part out of the control of the power's owner.