House Rule : Amorphic

[Mr. Ooze]

This is a house rule we've taken to using. It's still a work in progress though.

 

It's a limitation variation for desolidification called Amorphic.

 

Basicly it works like this.

 

Amorphic (-1.5)

 

This type of desolidificaton can still be affected by the real world, and can still affect the real world. (I.E. It provides no defense). It only allows the character to squeeze though small spaces. For example, like the Blob, or an ameoba, or having a body made of stretchy plastic.

 

It has a lower limit on how small the space can be, we've temporarily decided on hole at least 1 inch in diameter, or a long crack at least 1/4 of an inch in width.

 

Because it doesn't provide any protection (anyone can still attack this person using this power, even without having Affects Desolid), there is no need to have to buy Affects Real World for their powers.

 

Now, this might not be the best or only way to do this. But it's what we've decided on and it works pretty good, in fact, It's worked well enough that I thought I'd share it with everyone else.

 

It's not unbalancing ( At least not so far. ), and doesn't require GM's handwaving the rules so that non-solid characters like Ameoba-Boy or Stretchy-Man can affect the "real" world.

[JmOz]

I would make the Limitation -1

[Dust Raven]

I agree with the -1 Lim suggestion.

 

 

Would the character be able to attack while Amorphic? I'm thinking not, because he could still reach through small holes and cracks while attacking and remain protected using his Power (indirectly..but still protected).

 

I did something like this using Shape Shift once. It was quite a bit more expensive than the Desol option....but it allowed him to attack while squeezing through bars and under doors without tweaking the rules.

[schir1964]

Protean Form

 

Protean Form [ Standard Power, Constant, Self-Only ]

The characters body can be changed or distorted to squeeze through openings. It does not allow the character to change his appearance nor does it give any extra reach (see Shape Shift and Stretching). Likewise, while in this form, they can travel at thier normal movement rate. They can attack and be attacked while in this form.

 

Protean Form Cost: 20 Points.

 

Modifiers

 

Viscosity (-1/2), +1 Phase (-1/4)

This limitation reflects that additional time required to move through smaller and smaller openings. The opening size is relative to the character's height. For a -1/2 limitation and additional phase is required to travel through and opening 1/4 the character's height. You can increase the time required for travel by an additional +1 Phase per -1/4 Limitation.

	[Opening Size]	(Extra Travel Time)	{Sample Opening Size: 2m Height}
Viscosity		[1/500]		(+8 Phases)		{4 mm}
Viscosity		[1/250]		(+7 Phases)		{8 mm}
Viscosity		[1/125]		(+6 Phases)		{16 mm}
Viscosity		[1/64]		(+5 Phases)		{32 mm}
Viscosity		[1/32]		(+4 Phases)		{64 mm}
Viscosity		[1/16]		(+3 Phases)		{125 mm}
Viscosity		[1/8]		(+2 Phases)		{25 cm}
Viscosity		[1/4]		(+1 Phase)		{50 cm}

Example: Sandman can sift through grates and pipes, but it takes longer for him to do so. The smaller the opening is, the longer it takes. Sandman is 2 Meters tall normally. With this limitation, he could sift through an opening that is 1/4 his height in diameter (50 cm), but it would take an extra phase to do so. If the opening is 1/8 his height in diameter (25 cm), then it would take 2 extra phases to flow through it. For a -3/4 Limitation, a 1/4 diameter (50 cm) opening would require the Sandman 2 addtional phases to travel through it.

 

Viscosity Limit (Varies)

The smallest opening that a character is able to travel through. Openings smaller than this limit can not be traveled through. The opening size is relative to the characters height.

	[Opening Size]	(Limitation Value)		{Sample Opening Size: 2m Height}
Viscosity Limit	[1/500]		(-1/4)			{4 mm}
Viscosity Limit	[1/250]		(-1/2)			{8 mm}
Viscosity Limit	[1/125]		(-3/4)			{16 mm}
Viscosity Limit	[1/64]		(-1)			{32 mm}
Viscosity Limit	[1/32]		(-1 1/4)			{64 mm}
Viscosity Limit	[1/16]		(-1 1/2)			{125 mm}
Viscosity Limit	[1/8]		(-1 3/4)			{25 cm}
Viscosity Limit	[1/4]		(-2)			{50 cm}

Example: Elasticman can squeeze through large cracks and pipes, but can't squeeze through a screen door or tiny openings. Elasticman is 2 Meters tall normally. With a -3/4 limitation, he could squeeze through openings as small as 1/125 his height (16 mm), but wouldn't be able to squeeze through any opening smaller than 16mm. Mr Double-Jointed has Viscosity Limit as a -2 Limitation. He can crawl through air ducts that most normal men couldn't fit into. Mr Double-Jointed could add Vicosity in addition to Viscosity Limit to simulate that it takes him longer to travel through air ducts than when he walks or runs normally.

[Mr. Ooze]

Originally posted by Dust Raven

Would the character be able to attack while Amorphic? I'm thinking not, because he could still reach through small holes and cracks while attacking and remain protected using his Power (indirectly..but still protected).

 

I'm thinking yes. Because the character we're working with in question has the power at 0 END, Persistant, Inherent, allways on, to reflect the fact that his body is allways like this -- Radiation accident in a plastic factory permanantly changed his body, this power, lots of stretching and shapeshift.

 

This hasn't been a problem abuse-wise, at least not yet. I credit this mostly to the excellent group of role-players I have. They tend to think along the lines of "How will this help me roleplay better?" instead of "How can I tweak and abuse this rule as hard as I can for my own benifit."

[Dust Raven]

I would definately recomend using Shapeshift then. If you insist on using Desol....I think it would be a -1 at most. You are getting to move through things and attack. I would almost suggest using a weird form of Tunneling without leaving a tunnel behind, but doesn't seem to mesh with your concept.

[prestidigitator]

Originally posted by Dust Raven

I would definately recomend using Shapeshift then. If you insist on using Desol....I think it would be a -1 at most. You are getting to move through things and attack. I would almost suggest using a weird form of Tunneling without leaving a tunnel behind, but doesn't seem to mesh with your concept.

I agree. And just because the name Tunneling doesn't match the concept of the character doesn't mean it shouldn't be used. It sounds more like the right mechanics, and could have the Special Effects desired. (Incidentally, I believe Tunneling should take longer through harder materials, or there should be a Limitation with good mechanics for this).

 

The Desolidification Power, as it is, has a -1 Limitation that can be applied: Does Not Protect Against Damage. This Limitation still does not allow the owner of the power to attack without the Affects Physical World Advantage (at least, not without express GM permission), so I would say such a construct would be far more expensive than just Desolidification with a -1 Limitation. Maybe Desolidification with an Advantage Character's Attacks Which Could Affect HIm While Desolidified Can Affect Physical World, which I would say is probalby a +1, along with the Does Not Protect Against Damage Limitation? That would give the power the same real cost (in the absence of other modifiers) as Desolidification. This sounds reasonable, since I think the benefit and drawback are pretty balanced.

[Mr. Ooze]

Originally posted by Dust Raven

I would definately recomend using Shapeshift then. If you insist on using Desol....I think it would be a -1 at most. You are getting to move through things and attack. I would almost suggest using a weird form of Tunneling without leaving a tunnel behind, but doesn't seem to mesh with your concept.

 

Here's the thing though, does shapeshift explictly allow that? Would you allow a character who bought shapeshift to squeeze though a drain, or under a door? That really sounds like desolid to me. Sure, It could use work, but that's why I'm here. Heh. (And I agree, that looking at it, it should only be -1 or -3/4.)

[Mr. Ooze]

Re: Protean Form

 

Originally posted by schir1964

Protean Form [ Standard Power, Constant, Self-Only ]

The characters body can be changed or distorted to squeeze through openings. It does not allow the character to change his appearance nor does it give any extra reach (see Shape Shift and Stretching). Likewise, while in this form, they can travel at thier normal movement rate. They can attack and be attacked while in this form.

 

While an interesting concept, I think the whole viscosity thing adds excessive complexity. I'm not saying the idea is bad, it's not. I just don't think that's the solution I'm looking for. We have rotating GM's and getting everyone to agree on a power modifier is going to be easier than getting everyone to agree on adding a whole new power.

[Lupus]

Re: Re: Protean Form

 

Originally posted by Mr. Ooze

While an interesting concept, I think the whole viscosity thing adds excessive complexity. I'm not saying the idea is bad, it's not. I just don't think that's the solution I'm looking for. We have rotating GM's and getting everyone to agree on a power modifier is going to be easier than getting everyone to agree on adding a whole new power.

I agree with -1 1/2. You don't protect against damage (-1) and you can't pass through solid objects (-1/2). It adds up.

 

In my games, if your desolid can't protect against damage, then you don't need to buy Affects Real World on your attacks. ARW is needed normally to stop people who are desolid from attacking with no risk to themselves. But if you don't stop damage, then that's unnecessary.

 

Note, this only applies to characters whose desolid renders them vulnerable to all attacks. If you're normally vulnerable to magic while desolid, then your magic attacks still require ARW. I do make an exception on some SFXs - a magical desolid character can hit another magical desolid character, for instance.

 

In short, -1 1/2 sounds perfect to me.

[schir1964]

Re: Re: Protean Form

 

Originally posted by Mr. Ooze

While an interesting concept, I think the whole viscosity thing adds excessive complexity. I'm not saying the idea is bad, it's not. I just don't think that's the solution I'm looking for. We have rotating GM's and getting everyone to agree on a power modifier is going to be easier than getting everyone to agree on adding a whole new power.

Actually, the new power is my House Rule. This was originally an option for Shapeshift for Hero 4th.

 

Now I haven't tried to duplicate it with Shapeshift for 5th yet, but Steve Long did say he would allow such a thing with Shapeshift using the Touch sense as the basis.

 

So you could simply do this as an option to Shapeshift. And you can drop the modifiers if you want. I only posted it since I've been through this whole discussion before. I found it was much easier to simply add a new power (which is totally legit and legal per the rules), than have a ton of adders/modifiers for such a simple concept.

 

Just My Humble Opinion

 

Good luck with your game.

 

- Christopher Mullins

[Dust Raven]

Originally posted by Mr. Ooze

Here's the thing though, does shapeshift explictly allow that? Would you allow a character who bought shapeshift to squeeze though a drain, or under a door? That really sounds like desolid to me. Sure, It could use work, but that's why I'm here. Heh. (And I agree, that looking at it, it should only be -1 or -3/4.)

 

It depends on how you define Shape Shift. Technically, if you change into the shape of tha Squirrel, you have to use Sight, Hearing and Touch....even Radio if you want your radar to show up as a tiny rodent instead of your normal shape. This would just be the Touch Group I think.

 

Shape Shift (Touch Group, any shape) Instant Change, Reduced Endurance (0 END, +1/2), Persistant (+1/2), Inherant (+1/4) (67 Active Points); Always On (-1/2). Total Cost: 45.

 

Desolidification (affected by any attack) Reduced Endurance (0 END, +1/2), Persistant (+1/2), Inherant (+1/4) (90 Active Points); Always On (-1/2) Cannot Pass Through Solid Objects (-1/2), Does Not Protect Against Damage (-1). Total Cost: 30 Points.

 

Looks like Desol is cheeper at any rate....

 

In either case, I'd rule that it takes time to move through smaller openings as a -0 Limitation though. It's still a fairly useful and powerful ability, even at 30-45 points.

[Farkling]

Here's my contributions from outside the box::

 

1) 5 - 1" Tunnlelling thru DEF 12 (+33), Tunnel filled in (+10), Invisible Power Effects - Sight Targeting (+1/2), Limited Medium (-1) (crack or hole must through medium), requires Stretching or ShapeShift in active use & Tunnel MUST be filled in (-1/2 ??)

Active 72, Real 29. Fully Invisible is Active 96, Real 38.

GM will need to handwave that the fill puts the wall back exactly as it was.

 

Tunnelling says under the description that +10 will allow you to fill in the tunnell behind you, but if you want to conceal the tunnelling, you need IPE.

This doesn't quite do it for me, since no actual tunnelling occurs...

 

2) 5" Teleport, Position Shift (+5), Safe Blind (+1/4), "there must be a crack or hole through intervening obstacles, as character is considered to pass through it" (-1/4).

Active 19. Real 15. Season to taste with reduced END.

 

This one doesn't distuurb the wall...and is blocked by hardened defenses. You could even buy the Teleport up to the stretching distance.

 

3.5) If you ONLY want to stretch THROUGH an object and attack...you could buy "Indirect" on your Stretching and your Strength...with the "crack" limitation.

[Mr. Ooze]

I just thought of another way to build this power. It's a little off the walll, but how about Shrinking with Invisible Power Effects?

[schir1964]

Too bad you can't find the original thread on this. Your going through the same things we did when discussing this back then. (8^D)

 

Here's Protean Form done with Shape Shift:

 

Shape Shift [standard Power/Body-Affecting Power/Constant]

Touch Sense: 5 Points

Limited Group Of Shapes: 10 Points

Costs END Only To Change Shape: +1/4

 

Total Cost: 19 Points

 

Much Cheaper Than Desolidification

 

- Christopher Mullins

[prestidigitator]

How about just a huge bonus on the Contortionist Skill. Then the character could pull of "Extrordinary" stunts with it.