Dr Divago Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 hi all i post this question here because in Fantasy there is a lot of move through with killing weapon, and also i found this problem while playing FH yesterday we (me and player) where arguing about Move Through because they said "it's useless". I was pointing about MT is useless with "people who run with the sword vs an enemy" but it's useful while charging with the horse and lance. We did an example, with a player with 18 STR, an heavy Lance (STR Min 15) and on a medium warhorse (run 10"/20") so, STR 18/2=9 -> 6 points below Lance STR Min, so he get -2 DC and -2 OCV horse running at top speed, is 20" with non combat movement (and i don't think he will go at NCM so far...) he will get: -6 OCV (-2 for STR below STR Min, maneuver add -1/5" so 20" is -4) -3 DCV (penalities for MT maneuver) +1 DC (-2 DC for STR below STR Min; 20"/3=6 so +6 DC => +3 DC with lethal weapon) so he charge for 40 meters, with 18 STR, with an horse running at maximum speed, and only get +1 DC?? with -6 OCV!!! he could easily move (horse get movement so he get full phase attack), and aim for head location for x2 BODY damage with -8 OCV! i can make a sweep for 4 attacks with -6 OCV! so this made me ring some bells, and i gone through the book and read the rules again: divide STR by half for calculation of STR Minimum and this is the first problem: if dividing STR by half i go below STR Minimum, i get the -1 DC/OCV for every 5 points below str minimum? or i need it only to calculate how much DC i add for STR to the weapon, and then if below str minimum i don't add extra DC (but still don't get penalities)? add +1d6 damage for every 3" traveled for Normal Damage, is pretty clear: every 3" i got an extra DC of normal damage (1 DC = 1d6 damage) and for Killing Damage? i got +1 DC every 3", or i need 6" (+2 normal damage DC) to increase weapon damage by 1 DC (as for Martial Maneuver + DC) ty all for helping; i know it could be annoying 'cause it's a pretty stupid question (plus, i still use 5ER and now it's becoming obsolete x_x ) but still the problem are present... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 Re: Move Through with Killing Weapons You only halve the STR being used for Damage. only 3 STR can be applied to the Damage of the weapon, halved to 2 STR, not enough to add even 1DC. STR is effectively 0 for this maneuver. -4 OCV, -3DCV; +6 DCs for Velocity (+3 Killing DCs). At least, that's how I interpreted the rules. Or would change the rules to being that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xavier Onassiss Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 Re: Move Through with Killing Weapons Another suggestion, although it's getting very deep into house-rule territory: If you really want lance-charges to be deadly, consider that besides the rider, it's also got the horse's STR behind it. That might help, but it could also be overpowered -- I don't have all the numbers in front of me, so I'm not sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuSoardGraphite Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 Re: Move Through with Killing Weapons Unless it was changed in the 6th edition, I'm pretty sure that Damage Class bonuses to Killing Attacks from Move-through, Move-by and Passing Strike maneuvers add +1DC straight bonus and is not halved as are the bonus from other Martial maneuvers when applied to killing attacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xavier Onassiss Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 Re: Move Through with Killing Weapons Unless it was changed in the 6th edition' date=' I'm pretty sure that Damage Class bonuses to Killing Attacks from Move-through, Move-by and Passing Strike maneuvers add +1DC straight bonus and is not halved as are the bonus from other Martial maneuvers when applied to killing attacks.[/quote'] The good new is, nothing is halved in 6th ed. when adding damage -- so that particular source of confusion was eliminated. (I never understood all that nonsense -- add only half of this, but add 100% of that, blah blah blah. Drove me up the *&^%$#@! wall.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Divago Posted February 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 Re: Move Through with Killing Weapons Unless it was changed in the 6th edition' date=' I'm pretty sure that Damage Class bonuses to Killing Attacks from Move-through, Move-by and Passing Strike maneuvers add +1DC straight bonus and is not halved as are the bonus from other Martial maneuvers when applied to killing attacks.[/quote'] I use 5er so the trick is: - STR is halved only over the STR Minimum (ie first you subtract the STR Min, then half the remaining to calculate extra damage) - DC from movement is added in a 1/1 basis (3" -> 1 DC) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowsoul Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 Re: Move Through with Killing Weapons Hang on. Are you confusing Move By with Move Through? As I understand it in Move By you charge past the target and attack them as you go by e.g. a cavalryman cutting down a fleeing infantryman. In Move Through you head directly at the target and plough straight through them and/or run them down. Move By halves your Strength and gives Velocity/5 extra damage. Move Through uses your entire Strength and gives Velocity/3 extra damage. At full speed that Knight is doing +6 Damage Classes and probably breaking his lance into the bargain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escafarc Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 Re: Move Through with Killing Weapons In 5E Fantasy HERO there were rules for Jousting. Don't have it at the moment to check what it said about damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escafarc Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Re: Move Through with Killing Weapons After looking it up in FH you don't need to worry about adding damage from STR to a lance attack, since on the chart it list the the STR Min's with a cross next to them so no extra damage from STR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice9 Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Re: Move Through with Killing Weapons Yeah, from what I'm seeing, with 20" of movement: Move-By: -2 OCV, +4 DCs (and bonus damage from STR is halved) Move-Through: -4 OCV, +6 DCs (and full bonus damage from STR, if applicable) Which seems pretty useful, against any low-DCV target. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Divago Posted February 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Re: Move Through with Killing Weapons Move By halves your Strength and gives Velocity/5 extra damage. Move Through uses your entire Strength and gives Velocity/3 extra damage. At full speed that Knight is doing +6 Damage Classes and probably breaking his lance into the bargain.yeh but for killing weapon rulebook says "halves STR for calculating STR Min extra damage/DC and OCV penalities" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Divago Posted February 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Re: Move Through with Killing Weapons ok thank you to all so, recap: - every 3" i add +1 DC (lethal weapon DC) - i don't have to halve the STR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narf the Mouse Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 Re: Move Through with Killing Weapons ...This would be a lot more clear if everyone would agree on which edition they are using, methinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Divago Posted March 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 Re: Move Through with Killing Weapons well, i'm using 5 edition btw a friend of mine checked on 6 ed too and he says it's the same... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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