Star Wars lightsaber help

[MisterFurious]

Okay, so I'm moving back to my hometown of Omaha here shortly and it's been several years since I've been back so I've been looking around for potential gamers in the area... I see that a store there has a "D&D or Star Wars or Shadowrun" night... guess it depends on who shows up...

 

Now, I've been wanting to run a Star Wars game using HERO rules for the longest time and my weaselly mind is thinking this might be the perfect opportunity to turn some d20 people over to the Dark Side, as it were....

 

I'm familiar enough with the HERO rules, I think, to manufacture Stormtroopers, Wookie templates, and so forth.... I've got a pretty good idea of how I'd handle the Force in my game... it'd be one of three things.... 1) you're a full blown Jedi Master with a VPP representing all your kick ass Force knowledge; 2) you're a Jedi Knight (or nearly so) with a Multipower (or two or three, etc) representing your training up to that point; 3) you're "Force Sensitive" with no formal training per se, in which case you'd buy whatever powers you might have individually.

 

Okay, so the only thing that's throwing me is how to build a Lightsaber.... on it's own it would likely be a KA, possibly with Ranged if you were skilled enough to toss it around like Luke and Vader do.... so does that mean with the Ranged Advantage, it always comes back to your hand "via the Force"?

 

I just want to make sure I'm on the right track here...

 

any other kick ass "advanced" Jedi abilities, like Reflection and Deflection would be bought in addition to the basic, "standard" lightsaber, right?

 

would it be possible to buy Damage Negation/Damage Reduction/Resistant Defense with the special effect of whipping your lightsaber around so fast, nobody's shot can get through(kind of like what we see all the various Jedi in the prequel movies doing)?

 

and how would you build a lightsaber's seeming ability to "melt" through metal, like what we see Qui-Gon doing in the first prequel?

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Star Wars lightsaber help

 

This is from a similar 5e thread in '09:

 

Here's a still incomplete update to my earlier example.

 

re: the Lightsaber

I removed NND & Does Body Advantages and replaced them with AP & x3 Penetrating. This is intended to allow superhero defenses to function against the damage to some degree without requiring the sfx based 'all or nothing' option of NND. Depending on GM preference, the Missile Deflection could be folded into a multipower with the basic attack. A fully defensive Force Wall slot could be added as well.

 

re: the TK

As with the Lightsaber, the TK could be folded into a seperate 'Force' multipower which could then include the other mental abilities like Mind Control.

 

re: PSL's vs. Hit Locations

Depending on the campaign tone these should probably be traded in for Find Weakness just to speed up gameplay.

 

Val Char Cost Roll Notes

20 STR 10 13- Lift 400.0kg; 4d6 [4]

20 DEX 30 13- OCV: 7/DCV: 7

20 CON 20 13-

15 BODY 10 12-

18 INT 8 13- PER Roll 13-

20 EGO 20 13- ECV: 7

15 PRE 5 12- PRE Attack: 3d6

14 COM 2 12-

4 PD 0 Total: 4 PD (0 rPD)

4 ED 0 Total: 4 ED (0 rED)

4 SPD 10 Phases: 3, 6, 9, 12

8 REC 0

40 END 0

35 STUN 0

Total Characteristic Cost: 115

 

Movement:

Running: 6"/12"

Leaping: 4"/8"

Swimming: 2"/4"

 

 

Cost Powers END

37 Sensitivity to the Force: Danger Sense (general area, any danger, Function as a Sense) 13-

 

22 Force Directed Lightsaber Deflection: Missile Deflection (Any Ranged Attack), Missile Reflection, Reflect At Any Target (50 Active Points); OAF (-1), Requires A PER Roll (No Active Point penalty to Skill Roll; Danger Sense; -1/4)

 

45 Lightsaber: (Total: 138 Active Cost, 45 Real Cost) Killing Attack - Ranged 1d6, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Armor Piercing (+1/2), Penetrating (x3; +1 1/2) (52 Active Points); OAF (-1), STR Minimum 10 (STR Min. Cannot Add/Subtract Damage; -1), No Range (-1/2), No Knockback (-1/4) (Real Cost: 14) plus Killing Attack - Ranged 1d6, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2), Armor Piercing (+1/2), Damage Shield (Offensive; Only vs. targets touching the blade; +3/4), Continuous (+1), Penetrating (x3; +1 1/2) (86 Active Points); OAF (-1), Linked (Killing Attack - Ranged; -1/4), Limited Power Power loses about a fourth of its effectiveness (Only vs. objects touching the blade; -1/4), No Knockback (-1/4) (Real Cost: 31)

 

30 Jedi Combat TK: Telekinesis (20 STR), Area Of Effect Accurate (One Hex; -0 Limitation: Can Be Blocked/Deflected (If Perceivable); +1/2), Invisible Power Effects (Fully Invisible; -0 Limitation: Visible to Mental Sense Group; +1) (75 Active Points); Instant (-1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Concentration (1/2 DCV; -1/4), Requires A Skill Roll (Active Point penalty to Skill Roll is -1 per 20 Active Points; -1/4), Affects Whole Object (-1/4) 7

Notes: Advanced practitioners should be allowed to buy off the Instant and Affects Whole Object Limitations either directly or by way of a seperate Naked Power.

 

Jedi TK Arts: Basic

Maneuver OCV DCV Notes

8 +2 HTH Damage Class(es)

3 Martial Grab -1 -1 Grab Two Limbs, 40 STR for holding on

3 Martial Throw +0 +1 6d6 +v/5, Target Falls

5 Takeaway +0 +0 Grab Weapon, 40 STR to take weapon away

 

-8 Jedi TK Arts: Advanced, Private Adder

Maneuver OCV DCV Notes

4 Choke Hold -2 +0 Grab One Limb; 3d6 NND

4 Crush +0 +0 10d6 Crush, Must Follow Grab

Skills

10 Defense Maneuver I-IV

12 +4 with Lightsabers

8 Penalty Skill Levels: +4 vs. Hit Location modifiers with with Lightsabers

5 Rapid Attack (HTH)

 

Total Powers & Skill Cost: 188

Total Cost: 303

 

200+ Disadvantages

 

Total Disadvantage Points: 303

[Kraven Kor]

Re: Star Wars lightsaber help

 

Just to be clear, you wanting to do this in 5E or 6E?

 

I don't really like the build posted above; and many of a lightsabers tricks can be simulated by mere direct damage (cutting a hole in metal = doing body to metal until you have appropriate sized hole (5 BODY dealt = Man-sized Hole, with every 5 BODY doubling that, IIRC.)

 

I would seriously build a Lightsaber as a HKA (not ranged...) with AVAD - alternate defense being another lightsaber, force field, or that other special metal they use. I would also put in that STR doesn't add to damage, though that may not be exactly canon.

 

All the other tricks would be built using other powers that interact with it; like, say, using your TK to attack with it at range, etc.

[Starcloud]

Re: Star Wars lightsaber help

 

I wouldn't use AVAD; Simply put, lightsabers do NOT cut through everything on contact. There are numerous examples in the movie of railings and other objects surviving blows from a lightsaber. For similar reasons, I'd let Strength apply to lightsaber damage.

 

I might build it as a compound power: 2d6 HKA; with a linked 1d6 HKA damage shield, 0 end, str does not apply. No Knockback, AP x2, and Penetrating would apply to both parts of the compound power.

 

And use a custom limitation: Lightsaber (-3/4) based on the limitations OAF, Real Weapon (they do need maintenance sometimes), One hand required, deactivated by Cortosis ore, Armor Piercing and Penetrating does not apply to objects made of Beskar or Cortosis.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Star Wars lightsaber help

 

Here's a compilation of everyone's Star Wars conversion material by TheQuestionMan:

 

Star Wars Hero Resources

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/30644-Star-Wars-Hero-Resources?p=689505#post689505

 

 

Good day Herophiles, I decided to collect the Star Wars Hero Conversions, Adaptations, and Resources all into one thread.

 

STAR WARS HERO fan site

http://www.sysabend.org/champions/campaigns/StarHeroWars/index.html

 

Nevenall's STAR WARS HERO ["Has Moved To"]

http://mysite.verizon.net/nevenall/

 

Star Wars: Canonical Character Write Ups (Thanks Von D-Man)

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50866

 

Jedi Ghosts

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17735

 

STAR WARS HERO ready for comment

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17476

 

Lightsaber Combat!

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12692

 

STAR WARS PDF resources on Pen & Pencil Web site

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16714

 

Star Wars: Jedi characters and Miscellaneous

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16624

 

Jedi Characters

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15469

 

Star Wars in HERO

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16223

 

R2-D2

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15052

 

C3-P0

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15078

 

The Force (Continuing Powers Project)

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5344

 

Cheap R2 example

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9928

 

My take on the Light Sabre

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2504

 

Jedi Powers

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1275

 

Star Wars Dark Side in Hero

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8460

 

Character: Darth Vader

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7294

 

Character: Darth Vader

http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptionsmovie/darthvader.html

 

Teboran Jedi

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7320

 

Star Wars Hero Question

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6437

 

Jedi telekinesis

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4133

 

Jedi Package Deal, gimmie input

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3305

 

Jedi Mind Tricks and Mental Defense

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1207

 

The Ultimate Jedi

http://www.herogames.com/oldForum/StarHero/000195.html

 

Light Sabre technical Discussions

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/

 

Star Wars - Light Sabre Colour Significance

http:// http://herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30428

 

StarWars - Clone Wars Jedi

http://herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30434

 

Another Star Wars – In my Sandbox (by Rick)

http:// http://herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30536

 

Star Wars – Stormtrooper Conversion Questions (by Badger)

http:// http://herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29813

 

Eosin's Stab at the Force

http://herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29217

 

Sith Knights - My Stab at the Force (by austenandrews)

http://herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29687

 

Another: StarWars in my Sandbox (Thanks Rick)

http://herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30536

 

Star Wars Hero Question (Thanks beastialwarlust)

http://herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32261

 

Finally figured out what I hate about Star Wars in RPGs (Thanks paigeoliver)

http://herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32261

 

Special bonus for a well build lightsaber? (Thanks Nevenall)

http://herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32278

 

My Star Wars Force Powers (Thanks Herolover)

http://herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32110

 

Missing SW-Brand Mono-Climates (Thanks Supreme)

http://herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31966

 

light saber color signification (Thanks steph)

http://herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30428

 

Clone Wars Jedi. (Thanks ParitySoul)

http://herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30434

 

Look Sir ... Droids (Thanks Sketchpad)

http://herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30834

 

Lethality in Star Wars (Thanks JohnOSpencer)

http://herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32623

 

Star Wars: Clone Wars Equipment Guide by Scion Zane

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1815877

 

Jedi Knight (350 points) by Hyper-Man

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/72770-350-point-jedi?p=1835525

 

 

Cheers

 

 

QM

 

P.S.: If you have Links I missed please Post them and I will add them to the list.

 

P.S.S.: "May the Force be with you... Always."

[MisterFurious]

Re: Star Wars lightsaber help

 

Just to be clear, you wanting to do this in 5E or 6E?

 

I don't really like the build posted above; and many of a lightsabers tricks can be simulated by mere direct damage (cutting a hole in metal = doing body to metal until you have appropriate sized hole (5 BODY dealt = Man-sized Hole, with every 5 BODY doubling that, IIRC.)

 

I would seriously build a Lightsaber as a HKA (not ranged...) with AVAD - alternate defense being another lightsaber, force field, or that other special metal they use. I would also put in that STR doesn't add to damage, though that may not be exactly canon.

 

All the other tricks would be built using other powers that interact with it; like, say, using your TK to attack with it at range, etc.

 

 

 

yes, I'm using 6e rules.

 

As for STR affecting the damage, not sure exactly how I'll handle that either... probably I'll say that it doesn't add, but I'm not sure about the whole "canon" thing either... I really only have the movies and a few vague memories of WE and WOTC roleplaying games to go on.

 

So how exactly would you use TK to simulate a thrown lightsaber? Why wouldn't you buy the Ranged Advantage like you would with a thrown dagger or handaxe or something? And I'm still unclear how you would get the lightsaber to return to your hand...

[MisterFurious]

Re: Star Wars lightsaber help

 

Here's a compilation of everyone's Star Wars conversion material by TheQuestionMan:

 

Star Wars Hero Resources

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/30644-Star-Wars-Hero-Resources?p=689505#post689505

 

 

whoah, there's a lot of stuff here.... thanks for that!

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Star Wars lightsaber help

 

...

So how exactly would you use TK to simulate a thrown lightsaber? Why wouldn't you buy the Ranged Advantage like you would with a thrown dagger or handaxe or something? And I'm still unclear how you would get the lightsaber to return to your hand...

 

Use the TK to guide the thrown lightsaber.

 

A lot depends on whether this is for a heroic (no points for equipment) or superheroic (pay for everything) game.

[Starcloud]

Re: Star Wars lightsaber help

 

Consider the evidence in the movies. It took effort to cut through things. A glancing or light blow didn't do much damage, a hard blow was needed to cut through several steel poles in one scene, you could see Qui-Gon straining to cut through the blast doors in Phantom Menace.

 

That's why I would build it as a compound power. Just coming into contact with the saber does a little damage, but the character has to put muscle behind it to cut through things. That says to me that part of the saber's damage is based on strength.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Star Wars lightsaber help

 

Consider the evidence in the movies. It took effort to cut through things. A glancing or light blow didn't do much damage, a hard blow was needed to cut through several steel poles in one scene, you could see Qui-Gon straining to cut through the blast doors in Phantom Menace.

 

That's why I would build it as a compound power. Just coming into contact with the saber does a little damage, but the character has to put muscle behind it to cut through things. That says to me that part of the saber's damage is based on strength.

 

That's exactly what this build was designed to model. Just 'touching' the blade does 1d6k w/x3Pen. Swinging does 2d6 plus any Martial Arts bonus damage.

 

45 Lightsaber: (Total: 138 Active Cost, 45 Real Cost) Killing Attack - Ranged 1d6, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Armor Piercing (+1/2), Penetrating (x3; +1 1/2) (52 Active Points); OAF (-1), STR Minimum 10 (STR Min. Cannot Add/Subtract Damage; -1), No Range (-1/2), No Knockback (-1/4) (Real Cost: 14) plus Killing Attack - Ranged 1d6, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2), Armor Piercing (+1/2), Damage Shield (Offensive; Only vs. targets touching the blade; +3/4), Continuous (+1), Penetrating (x3; +1 1/2) (86 Active Points); OAF (-1), Linked (Killing Attack - Ranged; -1/4), Limited Power Power loses about a fourth of its effectiveness (Only vs. objects touching the blade; -1/4), No Knockback (-1/4) (Real Cost: 31)

 

I disagree that any STR above the 'STR Minimum' would increase damage but skill with swinging the blade (ie; Martial Arts) would.

[Sepia]

Re: Star Wars lightsaber help

 

I still have the d6 WEG version of Star Wars and characters do use their TK to attack with a lightsaber. It is hard to do, but possible. In the movies, lightsabers are thrown, like a dagger or ax, but in WEG a character can even fight with it at range (adds to the difficulty considerably). Also, a characters Control Force ability either added or subtracted it damage the lightsaber does...this helps in not killing others. Don't know if you'all care or not about that part. I never really liked it, but I guess it made since when sparing and practicing so it would not be lethal.

[Sepia]

Re: Star Wars lightsaber help

 

Here's a compilation of everyone's Star Wars conversion material by TheQuestionMan:

 

Very excited about this compilation...have not had a chance to look through them, but good stuff!

[Tasha]

Re: Star Wars lightsaber help

 

The problem with light sabers is the same problem with all SciFi signature weapons. As a GM you have a choice to make it as OverPowered as you perceive it to be on screen. Or do you chalk up what you see on screen to be movie Hyperbole like the depictions of most firearms, and build something that is more balanced to the game.

 

A good 6e write up is probably 2d6RKA Penetrating. That gives enough damage to be frightning, but gives the GM the ability to have well equipped NPCs with Beskar or Cortosis armors (that would have the Impenetrable advantage on it).

 

One could also buy it as a 2d6 HKA Penetrating. Having the throwing talent could be bought as the Naked Advantage "Ranged".

[MisterFurious]

Re: Star Wars lightsaber help

 

The problem with light sabers is the same problem with all SciFi signature weapons. As a GM you have a choice to make it as OverPowered as you perceive it to be on screen. Or do you chalk up what you see on screen to be movie Hyperbole like the depictions of most firearms, and build something that is more balanced to the game.

 

A good 6e write up is probably 2d6RKA Penetrating. That gives enough damage to be frightning, but gives the GM the ability to have well equipped NPCs with Beskar or Cortosis armors (that would have the Impenetrable advantage on it).

 

One could also buy it as a 2d6 HKA Penetrating. Having the throwing talent could be bought as the Naked Advantage "Ranged".

 

 

 

Something like that is kind of what I was thinking... I'm starting to wonder, too, if maybe I'm making this more complicated than it needs to be! I just get a little confused about the whole thrown weapon thing... all I have to go off are some sample writeups in the 6e book... and they use HKA plus Ranged (I guess it's a Naked Advantage?) with 1 Recoverable Charge.

 

I'm not really sure if Recoverable Charge would be appropriate here or not.... the examples also throw in Real Weapon... not sure if I want to do that too.... although I guess I could if I want to run it Heroic style and have lightsabers that can be damaged or lost (like what seems to happen to Anakin in the prequels all the time).

[Tasha]

Re: Star Wars lightsaber help

 

Something like that is kind of what I was thinking... I'm starting to wonder' date=' too, if maybe I'm making this more complicated than it needs to be! I just get a little confused about the whole thrown weapon thing... all I have to go off are some sample writeups in the 6e book... and they use HKA [b']plus[/b] Ranged (I guess it's a Naked Advantage?) with 1 Recoverable Charge.

 

I'm not really sure if Recoverable Charge would be appropriate here or not.... the examples also throw in Real Weapon... not sure if I want to do that too.... although I guess I could if I want to run it Heroic style and have lightsabers that can be damaged or lost (like what seems to happen to Anakin in the prequels all the time).

 

The Recoverable Charge isn't appropriate here because the LS comes back to the thrower. If they threw the weapon and it stuck into the target, then the Recoverable Charge would be appropriate. The LS should probably be bought to 0 End. Jedi don't seem to get very tired from swinging the things so it make sense.

 

OAF and Real Weapon would be fine for a weapon that could be lost, damaged and disarmed. Anakin sure damaged/destroyed a ton of LS's before being turned to the dark side.

 

PS Training sabers do normal stun only damage. Those are what the kids use in training. I doubt that they do much stun dmg prob only enough for an electrical zap. So one can feel it if hit by one, but not really enough to KO someone.

[Hyper-Man]

bump!