MMA-styled martial arts locks and grappling

[heatmonkey]

Does anyone have an example of an MMA leg or heel lock built from martial arts? I am just not sure I am doing it right.

 

Cheers!

[Narf the Mouse]

Re: MMA-styled martial arts locks and grappling

 

Hero System Martial Arts should cover what you're talking about.

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: MMA-styled martial arts locks and grappling

 

How did you build it? Remember the mechanics can be the same, but you define the speical effects. So you could buy a martial grab and define it as a leg lock or an armbar. And a major point too, if you define it as armbar, its not one specific armbar, a bunch of different types, they just take the same mechanics. Now most people buy etra limbs-legs with limited manipulation, so that you can leg lock someone with your own legs, and still punch with your arms no penalty. Again, depending on how the manuever is defined, (as myself) it may not be nessecery, but it does eliminate possible debates.

[Bloodstone]

Re: MMA-styled martial arts locks and grappling

 

Lots of different options here, but your two major ones would be:

 

- A variation on Martial Grab, which is how most joint locks are designed for most martial arts. Typical leg locks will only require immobilizing one limb, but many will immobilize two. You can generally just assume that compound locks are performed via Multiple Attack as per 6E2 p65. This maneuver only does Normal damage and is probably most appropriate for Achilles Tendon Locks/Foot Locks and Calf Crushers, as these maneuvers are less likely to do lasting damage to the target.

 

- If you want the option to actually break legs you will also want to buy Joint Break, which does Killing damage and is defined in the aforementioned HERO System Martial Arts. This is particularly appropriate for twisting ankle locks like Toe Holds/Heel Hooks as well as Knee Bars.

 

Of course, like any joint lock, skilled fighters have enough control to choose how much damage the inflict. You can rupture and tear soft tissue with a calf crusher or Achilles, just like you can choose to only inflict pain with a heel hook or kneebar. You could also add some additional granularity by creating custom maneuvers. So a Knee Bar could be an entirely separate martial maneuver from a Hell Hook. But it's probably not worth the points investment for the character to buy versions of several extremely similar moves...

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: MMA-styled martial arts locks and grappling

 

Also, what rules are you using, and how complex/detailed do you want to go?

[Bloodstone]

Re: MMA-styled martial arts locks and grappling

 

Also' date=' what rules are you using, and how complex/detailed do you want to go?[/quote']

 

Good point!

 

I assumed 6E with my page and book references, but most of the same rules will apply in 5E (though Instead of Multiple attack it would be a Sweep...)

[RexMundi]

Re: MMA-styled martial arts locks and grappling

 

I sweep my Sweep in 5th Ed, heh......

 

So many ways to build it but regardless of edition, if you look at what you can do with a grab, especially after you grab them, Grab of various sorts is a very good way to go.....

 

~Rex

[Killer Shrike]

Re: MMA-styled martial arts locks and grappling

 

5E had multiple power attacks w/ Martial Arts also.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: MMA-styled martial arts locks and grappling

 

To the OP, do you mean some flavor of leg lock submission hold?

 

It's a variant of the Joint Lock / Throw maneuver, with the You Fall element added; 3 points vs 4 points.

 

We used a few of these in the Corps, and omg they hurt.

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: MMA-styled martial arts locks and grappling

 

Good point!

 

I assumed 6E with my page and book references, but most of the same rules will apply in 5E (though Instead of Multiple attack it would be a Sweep...)

 

Well, I was thinking with the Ultimate Martial Artist, you could buy power advantages for your manuever. I would buy variable special effect (+1/4) to represent leglocks or armlocks. Oh and to be clear, I'm assuming leg lock, your using your legs instead of hands and targeting the legs, but you could use your hands to attack legs. so alittle description would be useful.

[heatmonkey]

Re: MMA-styled martial arts locks and grappling

 

You guys are awesome! Thank you! I have started back to RPGs after a 20 year hiatus. I always loved Heroes back in the day and decided to pick up the latest so I am playing 6E.

 

To the OP, do you mean some flavor of leg lock submission hold?

It's a variant of the Joint Lock / Throw maneuver, with the You Fall element added; 3 points vs 4 points.

We used a few of these in the Corps, and omg they hurt.

 

This is exactly what I mean. There is a heel grab variant that is designed to disable the knee and I think the comment on the break is what I am missing. Thanks for the feedback!

[Bloodstone]

Re: MMA-styled martial arts locks and grappling

 

Well' date=' I was thinking with the Ultimate Martial Artist, you could buy power advantages for your manuever. I would buy variable special effect (+1/4) to represent leglocks or armlocks.[/quote']

 

An advantaged maneuver is probably too expensive to be worth it in this instance.

 

It would almost certainly be cheaper to purchase the exact same maneuver multiple times and with a different name.

 

However, you can already define Martial Grab or Joint Break as any joint lock that's appropriate to the users style, so if your style includes leglocks and armlocks I would almost certainly allow a character to perform both with a single martial maneuver.

 

Oh and to be clear, I'm assuming leg lock, your using your legs instead of hands and targeting the legs, but you could use your hands to attack legs. so alittle description would be useful.

 

Not typically.

 

When most people say leg locks, they are talking about submission holds performed on the opponents legs. Especially in a submission grappling or MMA context.

 

While the vast majority of these holds do utilize the attackers legs for better power and control of the opponent, most of them are still performed on the opponents leg(s) by the attackers arms. There are a few exceptions, like the Indian Deathlock or Stepover Toehold, but they are relatively obscure and virtually unseen in MMA.

 

In real life submission grappling, leg locks are kinda my specialty, so I could ramble on for a while here... but I'll try to show some restraint for once

[RexMundi]

Re: MMA-styled martial arts locks and grappling

 

To heck with Restraint! The man asked for a crayon, so we provide that crayola factory post haste!!

 

~Rex....also says never under look the value of combat skill levels with specific maneuvers...

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: MMA-styled martial arts locks and grappling

 

An advantaged maneuver is probably too expensive to be worth it in this instance.

 

It would almost certainly be cheaper to purchase the exact same maneuver multiple times and with a different name.

 

However, you can already define Martial Grab or Joint Break as any joint lock that's appropriate to the users style, so if your style includes leglocks and armlocks I would almost certainly allow a character to perform both with a single martial maneuver.

 

 

 

Not typically.

 

When most people say leg locks, they are talking about submission holds performed on the opponents legs. Especially in a submission grappling or MMA context.

 

While the vast majority of these holds do utilize the attackers legs for better power and control of the opponent, most of them are still performed on the opponents leg(s) by the attackers arms. There are a few exceptions, like the Indian Deathlock or Stepover Toehold, but they are relatively obscure and virtually unseen in MMA.

 

In real life submission grappling, leg locks are kinda my specialty, so I could ramble on for a while here... but I'll try to show some restraint for once

 

Yeah, I not the typical out all but that's why I said for clairty. (And since he said MMA for most that probally is enough, but the first thing that cam to my mind is a standing leg lock from Tai Chi, not what he is probally after, oh well.)

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: MMA-styled martial arts locks and grappling

 

Oh and Bloodstone when they gave the warning about converting real world style and redundant manuevers? I was the poster boy for that warning. And I do agree with probally letting it slide instead of buying vsfx. Or how about maybe a 1 pt weapon element legs? It would have the advantage of clearly defining the manuever with a very minimal cost.

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: MMA-styled martial arts locks and grappling

 

Fwiw, I plugged in vsfx for martial grab at 20 str and got 5 real points and 1 end as a result.